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Trashed trails; coyote season is back.
Topic Started: Jan 15 2010, 08:48 AM (734 Views)
Steve.M
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Just a rant here-every year, starting in January, we get the invasion of the coyote hunters. Nothing against hunters-it's one of my passions, but these guys just totally disregard all posted signs ("No walking or pets on Groomed Ski trails") and are just disrespectful of the hours of volunteer work that goes into grooming. They will tromp right down the middle of the trail, or worse yet, walk on the set tracks. A year or so ago, I tracked two hunters for 2 miles on the trail (I was skiing, after just finishing 4 hrs of grooming)-they just said they could go anywhere they wanted-they didn't care that the trail was just groomed. I walked, then skied away feeling I was never going to make a difference with these guys-and I didn't. I skied in and pulled the groomer out and re-groomed those sections of trail. Maybe a calming thing.
We have signs posted all over our trail head and any access trails, and I do realize hounds can't read very well, but it is just a frustrating thing every year keeping people from walking all over our nice ski trails. I know some of you deal with foot traffic all the time, so this is nothing new. I realize there is little that can be done-the county Forestry Dept will follow up with calls if they know who the guys are, but there is no teeth to that. Okay, I'm done.....wonder if any of you have a solution on your trail systems?
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semntrails
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No good answers here, be interesting to hear if others have found good solutions short of running them down with the groomer.

Our trails are in city parks, we have to allow the walkers on the trails too. It is really frustrating to be out grooming and see foot prints going through the nice fresh groomed trail - or worse as you said clodding along the classic track.

We've posted signs about walking to the side, don't walk on the classic track, etc and if I see people I try to encourage them to walk on the side (or thank them if they are). Where it's wide enough we've used a sled behind the snowmobile to pack a 'walking' path beside the ski trail. That helped some put still not 100%.

The other thing we're finding is the walkers are learning the beautiful trails they walk in the summer are packed so they can walk them year round. Each year we see a little more foot traffic - we also see more ski traffic.

It doesn't help when the nature center at one of the parks likes to take their wheeled gator out on the trails once in a while - drive it through the parking lot to pick up lots of dirt and grime then leave the grime along the trail for a few hundred yards. At least for now the base is solid enough it doesn't sink in.

So far the only answer we've found that 'worked' is groom more often to at least keep the foot print divots down and it helps keep the base packed.
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air19
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Regarding hunters. I have a couple of suggestions that have helped us.

1. Recruit your own set of "good hunters" that will follow your rules. Let them be the ones that talk to all the other hunters that come on the land and see if they can help. Go out of your way to help these good hunters. I have a very detailed map of our property I use for the sport of orienteering. All my good hunters get a copy. Whenever I see deer signs or activity I talk to my good hunters. When we have an "open barn" during the season for skiers with food and drink, I invite the good hunters around. Takes a while to build up the relationship. Then they become a bit more protective of their hunting area.

2. Create a network of trails for walkers, snowshoers, and your good hunters. They need to get around the forest. You can lure them off the ski trails if there is another network just for them.

3. Get to know your local game warden. If the land isn't posted the hunters are not violating any laws, but they are making people upset and that's bad for hunting in that area in the long run. Get the game warden to help you out and have him make a couple of stops and maybe he will get lucky and bump into some of your hunters.

4. Get more and more skiers and showshoers out on your trails. Some hunters really don't want to be around other folks. Of course there are others that will say it's good because the keep the deer moving.

This is a very hard problem to solve. And you never totally solve it.

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couchsachraga
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I was going to write what I've found really works well for my trails... but air19 just outlined it perfectly.

Works well with the ATV and snowmobile crowd too. A lot of nice folks out there, and I've found that helping them out has helped me in more ways than just keeping folks from wrecking the trails.

It IS a lot more difficult with public property (my main trail is a seasonal road), but the above has still worked well with the exception of our of towners who don't know any better... yet:)
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arly
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Oh well, sorry to say we’ve heard similar comments from many a “lost” sledders going down our trails, and that was 500ft beyond a trail sign that they had stopped to read. The state of Michigan does has a law which may have been created for the situation that you’ve experienced. It states, not a quote mind you “ORV’s cannot be operated on established ski trails or within 100ft of them”

Sorry to hear of your coyote grief, but as AIR suggested. I’d go to a Ezake Walton (spelling?) meeting and express your concerns. If they know there PR, they'll do something or at least make a statement to assist you.
Edited by arly, Jan 15 2010, 11:18 AM.
http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url]
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Steve.M
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Good points air19-
We have few problems with deer hunters, grouse or others...it's just the coyote guys. We have 133,000 acres of county forest and Levis Mound Trail sits on one tiny speck of it. I totally understand thatthe dogs will go where they will-but the hunters will always take the easy way (groomed trail) regardless of damage. It's a matter of respect. I can't count how many times I've brought a lost hound out to the trailhead with me and handed it off to the guys looking for it. I've tried talking to some of them and am on a "Trails Advisory Committee" with one of the guys who is most blatant. The county Forestry Dept. really frowns on their behavior-it costs money in fuel to go back and fix things.
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mt groomer
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Frustrating sometimes...

Last weekend, after a four hour grooming session, I returned to the parking lot to find it filled with - snowshoers! :banghead: , dozens of them. Not a skier in sight yet. The forest service was leading a nature hike for 'shoers. Unfortunately, we have a multi-use agreement w/ them that allows any non-motorized use. Snowshoers, hikers, dogs (don't get me started). Fortunately we don't get many hikers.
All that perfect cordouroy gone in a matter of minutes. Regroomed it all the next day. They had made a mess of the trail for the first few miles.

A couple days later when I showed up to groom, I noticed snowmobile tracks in the parking lot. A couple of nitetime 'bilers had hit our trails. :banghead: :banghead: Apparently, it was Search and Rescue looking for a lost skier. Well maybe these yahoos were saving a life, but they totally destroyed about 15k of trails. No regard for the trail, riding criss-cross and tearing up the set classic track. I had not groomed the day after they hit it. It had warmed up that day and refroze at night, so the trails were a frozen, rutty mess. It's taken many, many passes w/ the Ginzu to repair the damage.

It's time like these that I wish that King Ullr would drop a Pisten-Bully in my driveway.
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Grizzly
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Ower here anyone is allowed to walk or ski everywhere in the forrest, so we cant forbid somebody to walk in the trails. On the other hand it is not allowed to destroy anything either, so I use to talk a bit with those who walk in the trail.
- Why do you walk in the trail?
- I am allowed to...
- Do you make a campfire on the golfcourt?, do you put sand on the iceskating trail?
- No, of course not.
- Why not? you are allowed to do that also...
At about that point most people leave the trail.
But to be honest, we have much less problems with people walking in the trails since we started to groom trails with a nice looking comb on the sides and not just a mess of snowmobil tracks with a classic trail somewhere in the middle. I have also started to groom a "sidewalk" at some trails that a lot of people like to walk. It works very good. As son as I told some people I know to use the sidewalk, most other do the same.

About deers, my biggest problem right now is not humans in the trails, it is deers. The deers have found out that the trails is very good to walk on, and to digg for food in. They create a real mess at some spots. Anyone who have some deer hunters left over...?
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skier2
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The guy that runs our place grooms and track the trail then takes his four dogs out to ski with him. rents snow shoes and then lets snowshoers on trail he just groomed and tracked and you know somepeople just like to follow the set tracks when snowshoeing.

then we have another ski area nearby that grooms with a big 30k alpinia, and all they have is a flap in the back for a groomer. offer them a med G2 and they do not need it, yet skiers complain when refreezes, they cannot renovate after groomed with flap and too hard packed. there head forestry guy just tells everyone well they groom, when he does not even know what grooming is.


then today girl get hurt on hill, owner refuses to use the hut where rescue sled is and finds me on trail sking and tells me to ski back (15+mins) while he drives to where the hurt skier is with his groomer attached rather than sled. So i ski back to get sled and ssnowmobile which is state owned and he refused to let me use this year and he refuses to use also for grooming. He had no choice though to use the snowbile anyway because sled would not hook to his, so he tells me to go get it but do not drive it, i ihad to give to another guy behind the counder at another building. How i just wanted to keep skiing when he told me to get it but do not drive it, worried about skier though as he should have had sled in first place rather than groomer so she had to lay there at least another 30 extra mins.
Our town is so backwards with it comes too XC skiing.Someday i hope i can move north where they have it more together.
this is what i do half the time here, i wish i was making this stuff up but I'm not. :banghead:
Edited by skier2, Jan 16 2010, 09:20 PM.
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