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Equipment seen at ABR, photos here
Topic Started: Jan 5 2010, 07:15 PM (4,103 Views)
cowboy
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If ya put a light(s) UNDER the rear edge of the box, and add mirrors, (side and rearview) you can see the edges of your implement just fine. Much like a cat. Lights on the cab tend to shade the implement and glare off the box pretty bad, (due to snow dust from tracks)but are good for seeing the finish further out back. All else fails, stick your head out the window and look.
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arly
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air19
Jan 22 2010, 04:37 PM
How bout setting the tracksetter in the down position. I use a small G2 with the tracksetter and their is a fine line in getting it set just at the right height. I usually watch the swing arc of the actuator and I know when it goes past a certain point to stop. Now how am I going to do that in a UTV? On my 20Km trail network when I'm setting track, the actuator is going up and down 50 times a day for the hills.

I have a Ranger but I haven't thought about using it for grooming. It is a great summer trail maintenance machine. Mine is 10 years old and it's the most important machine on our forest farm and trail network, more so than the tractor, the snowmobile, anything else. Nothing better than having two guys go out and do trail work together for productivity.

So I'm just waiting to get my Grizzly with the latest Tatou tracks. I know Arly already has a Rhino, so it certainly makes sense for him to just pursue the right tracks. But why are so many people trying to make the UTV the solution, when a good ATV/Track setup is already a known?

We can't ever see our pan now, unless its quite high. We go by time and run it down against its clutch. We also look back to see if the tracks look good or not. Our "big idea" is we hope to build a all-way plow which we can correct trails with after a wind storm. We'd have a much harder time doing that with a lighter weight ATV. Is that just a crazed pipe dream?? :'( And as you say, we already have a Rhino that we use each fall to mow trails and do general work with. And even this fall we froze some volunteers operating our Rhino in the 25 to 45 temps. We'll be getting a cab for winter use. Maybe a Curtis??
Edited by arly, Jan 22 2010, 08:30 PM.
http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url]
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semntrails
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For our club I'm still sold on the ATV vs. the UTV. Most of our users are out 2-3 hours at a time and if it's brutally cold they don't have to go out. I'm trying to keep an open mind on the UTV's because one person in our club is sold on the concept. I like the idea that with the ATV/snowmobile your closer to the drags and what's going on behind you. I think the UTV might isolate them from the system more and could hurt the quality of our grooming (on the flip side a comfortable warm groomer might stay out longer so who knows).

Polaris has an ATV with a small bed on it (2.5'x3.5' maybe) that also converts to a second seat if you needed two operators for something. Polaris and CanAM also have 2 passenger ATV's. Although the Yamaha Grizzly seems to be getting the most field use by groomers - it's nice to have a few people using it already rather than being the first to try it.

Riding the UTV's with open cabs, I was thinking with an enclosed cab they could be really loud inside.

At the clinic the next day the question came up of if you could only have 1 unit a snowmobile or ATV which would it be. ABR would use a snowmobile they thought it was more comfortable and faster. Minocqua (I think it was them) chose the ATV they said it was more comfortable, versatile and went fast enough for grooming. Didn't help much with only two answers and them liking the opposite units for similar reasons.
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Steve.M
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semntrails
Jan 22 2010, 08:16 PM

At the clinic the next day the question came up of if you could only have 1 unit a snowmobile or ATV which would it be. ABR would use a snowmobile they thought it was more comfortable and faster. Minocqua (I think it was them) chose the ATV they said it was more comfortable, versatile and went fast enough for grooming. Didn't help much with only two answers and them liking the opposite units for similar reasons.
"Faster?" I don't get this.....The Grizzly will go as fast as you should groom. We have one operator who tends to push the upper limits of speed when grooming, and the results show-less corduroy, bumpy and sometimes the G2 will "chatter". I don't know the exact speed on the atv (with tracks-the speedo is off) but I probably run about 10-13 Mph. Maybe the ABR guys can run faster than that, but here, I just don't like the results at faster speeds.
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arly
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[/quote]"Faster?" I don't get this.....The Grizzly will go as fast as you should groom. We have one operator who tends to push the upper limits of speed when grooming, and the results show-less corduroy, bumpy and sometimes the G2 will "chatter". I don't know the exact speed on the atv (with tracks-the speedo is off) but I probably run about 10-13 Mph. Maybe the ABR guys can run faster than that, but here, I just don't like the results at faster speeds. [/quote]


I don't understand the slow speed factor either, but maybe I'm a slow learner :blink: A few years ago when we were investigating new sleds, we called Doug at YTS. In our conversation he recommended getting a tracked ATV and added that they are terribly slow and there engines undersized. We set tracks in the 6 to 12mph area and pulling the drag is slightly faster. Rolling in general is the fastest thing we do, in the 10 to 16mph range. If we go much faster than that, it oscillates. I heard from some of the fellows at ABR that they needed to hit a steep uphill so they'd speed up just before it. But the tracked ATV or UTV's didn't have good speed to attack it with. Hummmmmm Doing research since, UTV/ATV speeds seems reasonable and pulling capability superior over work sleds.
Edited by arly, Jan 23 2010, 02:35 PM.
http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url]
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BikerBill
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Arly, what!!! Did'nt have enough time to go Sking, no sking report or pic's!!! I asked Doug of YTS same question, ATV or sled, same answer, to slow and under powered, I could not figure that one out. Eric also said the same thing. Chalk one up for the grooming blog.
You mentioned a grooming blog that had comments on UTV's, not this blog, is there another grooming blog?
Last year at the seminar I drove a tracked ATV in 8"-10" of powder on a packed area pulling a ginsu, no problem, lots of snow piling up in front of ginsu, could still turn 90 corner, no problem!!! With a sled I would have been stuck right now!!!
Great job on the pictures and info gathered at the seminar.
Did you recruit new groomers for this blog, more is better.
Did Eric give out the DVD on trail grooming?
Concerning speed of grooming, this past week pulling YTS drags on hard packed skating trail with 1" of old fresh snow, we did at 6-7 mph, any faster would not get good comb pattern. For air19, we used a 08 VKPro, 24 F air temp, had no snow, slush inside track area, 3 hours of run time, no problem with overheating. Only change to sled, removed cover shield on cowling vent that I found out about on your thread on the totallyyamaha blog, thank you.
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Steve.M
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arly
Jan 23 2010, 10:14 AM

I don't understand the slow speed factor either, but maybe I'm a slow learner :blink: A few years ago when we were investigating new sleds, we called Doug at YTS. In our conversation he recommended getting a tracked ATV and added that they are terribly slow and there engines undersized. We set tracks in the 6 to 12mph area and pulling the drag is slightly faster. Rolling in general is the fastest thing we do, in the 10 to 16mph range. If we go much faster than that, it oscillates. I heard from some of the fellows at ABR that they needed to hit a steep uphill so they'd speed up just before it. But the tracked ATV or UTV's didn't have good speed to attack it with. Hummmmmm Doing research since, UTV/ATV speeds seems reasonable and pulling capability superior over work sleds.
The 700 Grizzly sure isn't underpowered by any imagination-so I don't understand the power argument. Speed-okay, on a sled-yes, I'd take a run at a steep hill, but that was because if I didn't, there was a good chance I'd get caught half way up. With the four tracks, I have better traction and can crawl up in low gear range at a pretty slow pace and not get stuck. I'd say, in my opinion, that argument is busted too. We have some walls to climb and I just haven't had a problem climbing them at normal grooming speeds with the Grizzly. Our skandics have studded tracks, the Grizzly does not. I'd also agree with xcgroomer-rolling is the fastest thing we also do, and if you go too fast-it'll bounce, as does the G2 tooth bar (side to side rocking motion).
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arly
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xcgroomer69
Jan 23 2010, 04:04 PM
Arly, what!!! Did'nt have enough time to go Sking, no sking report or pic's!!! I asked Doug of YTS same question, ATV or sled, same answer, to slow and under powered, I could not figure that one out. Eric also said the same thing. Chalk one up for the grooming blog.
You mentioned a grooming blog that had comments on UTV's, not this blog, is there another grooming blog?
Last year at the seminar I drove a tracked ATV in 8"-10" of powder on a packed area pulling a ginsu, no problem, lots of snow piling up in front of ginsu, could still turn 90 corner, no problem!!! With a sled I would have been stuck right now!!!
Great job on the pictures and info gathered at the seminar.
Did you recruit new groomers for this blog, more is better.
Did Eric give out the DVD on trail grooming?
Concerning speed of grooming, this past week pulling YTS drags on hard packed skating trail with 1" of old fresh snow, we did at 6-7 mph, any faster would not get good comb pattern. For air19, we used a 08 VKPro, 24 F air temp, had no snow, slush inside track area, 3 hours of run time, no problem with overheating. Only change to sled, removed cover shield on cowling vent that I found out about on your thread on the totallyyamaha blog, thank you.
XC, we didn't attend the clinic, just the equipment show. So I can't say if Eric gave out his grooming DVD or not. I did mention this forum to a few folks there. I personally don't know of any other forum where grooming is discussed. Although I have chatted with a few folks using ATV's and UTV's for towing their grooming equipment. I will say this again, in reference to what Doug says about towing machines. Everyone has different trails, conditions, snow, terrain, etc. When we got our Ginsu the darn thing wouldn't follow the sled worth a darn. It wondered off to the left or the right since it didn't have any skags!! We put some on it and it then worked 100% better. YTS did test this machine out on their trails,, apparently it did fine without skags. Point is the conditions in west Yellowstone must be LOTS different than ours.

Your welcome.
Edited by arly, Jan 24 2010, 12:10 AM.
http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url]
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semntrails
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No DVD's handed out this year at the clinic this year.

I don't think there really is one right setup. Kind of like the different snow thread there's different equipment and different operators and needs. What works great for our 10km trails where we get relatively small snowfalls and more hard pack to work with might not work at all up in the UP where 18" snowfalls aren't a suprise.
I think (not totally sure) it was some guys from Minocqua I was talking to that have a Polaris Sportsman ( a few year old model) that they use they said some of the plastic near the muffler is melting from the heat. They might be out 8 hours grooming all of their trails so and they have a cab on the ATV so there might be more heat build up then we'd see in 2-3 hours with no cab. I do appreciate what I learn on this board and at the clinic - knowing what to lookout for and potential plusses and minuses of different equipment.
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Boldy
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A big thank you from this neck of the woods as well. Getting the updates and photos is great.

Our club just purchased a new Skandic swt and I'm glad I didn't have all the ATV info to further complicate the choice. It was hard enough choosing a sled. I used a lot of info on the different forums to help with the decision. The ATV didn't seem like a good option last year but now I'm not so sure but I think the jury is still out. I look forward to more info as more clubs try out the ATVs.

I know we're really happy with the Skandic.
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yoopergroomer
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Sorry we did not hand out the Grooming DVD this year with the new format and price schedule for the Grooming Clinic and Show. We do have the Basic Grooming DVD available.

We showed the rough drafts of the new DVD's at the Clinic.

2. The DVD on Selecting and Setting up your Snowmobile/ATV/UTV for grooming was shown. It is having the final edits on ATV's and UTV's and will be reproduced for Feb 15th. We had very good feedback on this DVD.

3. The Trail Building DVD is complete, this DVD is being reproduced and will be available Feb 15th as well.

4. The Advanced Grooming DVD is being worked on and should be available March 15th.
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Attachments: Grooming_DVD.jpeg (1.27 MB)
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