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| Yamaha Rhino for grooming????? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 1 2009, 10:25 AM (4,075 Views) | |
| arly | Jan 1 2009, 10:25 AM Post #1 |
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Folks, After hearing these glowing Grizzly grooming reports (say that fast) we went to our local Yamaha dealer to see what they look like. In looking at the Griz and the Rhino, the Rhino appears to be very similar, just a tad wider, longer and of course has two seats. Someone stated that utility ATVs having a box, might obscure the operators view of the grooming equipments front or its cutting teeth. With that thought we sat in it and lowered the Rhino’s tail gate just to see just how far back we could see. Gee it appears one could see pretty darn close and possibly the teeth of a Ginsu. We also note that taking off the tail gate for the winter would be pretty easy, or the entire box removed and replaced with a flat platform or sorts for greater visibility yet. With a club discount it appears we can get one for about $9,000 and these come standard with power steering and with the 700, 4 stroke engine. This is pretty good price as utility ATVs go but we’d of course need some Tatou tracks, plow and cab for it, etc. Our theory was to use this as a supplement to our work sleds when conditions or trail work warrants that, then over the summer use it to mow trails and work on bridges (we have many!) over the summer. Without its tracks of course. Anyone here been using been using a tracked Rhino as a groomer?? If anyone has anything good or bad to say about this setup please do. and Happy new years! Edited by arly, Jan 1 2009, 10:29 AM.
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| http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url] | |
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| couchsachraga | Jan 1 2009, 10:46 AM Post #2 |
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I've had similar thoughts, but heard from some local ATV folks that at least one brand is actually much tippier than it's "normal" one up ATV sibling. Not sure if that's true or not, but it did make me realize I needed to do more research on the side by sides first (not that I can afford either right now, but I can at least start planning). The one i had zero'd in on was the Polaris Ranger, as a lot of clubs seem to use them, even if they are not completely tricked out like the Saratoga Ranger. |
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| Steve.M | Jan 1 2009, 11:05 AM Post #3 |
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I'd wonder about the weight of the Rhino compared to the Grizzly and surface pressure on snow. Also, if there is a weight penalty, then power might be an issue, (although our Grizz with the 700cc seems to have gobs of power-and that not even in Low). I don't know about the Rhinos turning radius either-maybe the same as the Grizz with tracks. I've found even pulling a TT, I can turn pretty sharp corners and whip right around on the trail. I'm lovin that compared to the SWT with flex-skis. |
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| air19 | Jan 1 2009, 12:09 PM Post #4 |
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I haven't tested a Rhino, but I did use a Polaris Ranger with tracks two years ago for a couple of days. It had first generation Tatou tracks, and they have probably come a long way since then. The Ranger weighed in around 1300 lbs, a big single ATV might tip out at 800 lbs. The Rhino weights almost 1200 lbs. The Ranger sank down a lot. The tracks weren't big enough to provide enough floatation. It took me a couple days with the SWT and G2 to fix my trails. Fast forward two years and now Tatou and others are designing tracks for UTVs that hopefully provide a lot more surface area to do the job better. Half your research will probably go into the ATV/UTV decision, but if you go the UTV route then I would recommend half your research go into the tracks and finding the right combo. |
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| cowboy | Jan 1 2009, 12:39 PM Post #5 |
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We don't run a rhino, but we do run a Bobcat 2200 w/ mattracks. Was shooting for the 2300 that already had hydralics and push frame, ran out of money. Here's my thoughts after 100 hrs or so. It can be very handy, it's the only reason we're skiing right now. You can run them on less snow than a sled. When you turn you don't normally bring up dirt,(don't skid like a sled). With a cab it's liveable, even without a heater. My two biggest gripes, weight... with the m3 ur mattracks we have just over 1500 sq inches of track. By the time we add tracks (400+lbs), cab, blade, Packerbar, operator, we're well over 2k lbs. In deep snow without a base under it (to sink down to) it's worthless. You basically high center on the undercarriage, now I have very light fluffy snow, with a denser snow you might not. Balance... Ours is slightly tail heavy, adding implement load to the back makes it worse, as does the higher center of gravity when climbing hills. I built a 4-way u-blade for the front, 6'6" wide, 30" tall. On back we pull a packer, basically a 6' tiller box without the shaft. The lift frame and bar weigh about 250. The blade and push frame on front under 200. The weight of the blade really helps the machine from a balance standpoint. Our tracks lift the machine about 5-6", It helps with clearance for deeper snow, but screws with the center of gravity. Our local S.O. has a ranger w/ polaris?? tracks. Stay on a groomed trail, if they leave it they're shoveling and winching. Too little track for too heavy vehicle. Their 4wheeler w/same tracks is roughly the same, get it in snow deep enough to sink to undercarriage and your done. All that being said there's something there, heavier machine will move more weight/load. We pushed tremendous amounts of snow with ours this year. Rolling blade full 3' high x blade width. Cut 5' drifts if they were'nt rock hard, cut real hardpack trail, going uphill, like an actual snowcat. But there were limits, once the dfifts got rock hard they just stopped the machine, too steep you just spun, even without implements down. Hard snow uphill max,,,say less than 20 deg. Stuff the PB wouldn't think about in 3' new snow, the buggy couldn't do on hard snow. If I had to do over, for my conditions and use, lightest machine I could find, largest and most aggressive track surface, try to keep center of gravity lower. Hydralics not actuators. Power steering. All in all it's a VERY HANDY machine, saved our bacon this year, less than 2' snow in 2 months, only able to use PB on about 1/4 our trails. Thankfully we've got the buggy... |
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| arly | Jan 1 2009, 02:56 PM Post #6 |
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For our needs we would use the tracked Rhino (or some atv) to supplement our sleds, not replace them. We only do striding trails and most are narrow with only single tracks. We have some trails that follow ridges and hillsides that get terribly off camber after a wind storm has blown through. So we imagined that with a all-way blade maybe we could plow them back into proper benching or camber. Here we average about 250 inches of snow per year and today we’re well over the 100 something mark. Our lake snow is considered medium moisture content so we don’t deal with low snow very often. Actually we only ever groom after at least a few inches of snow has come down. For tracks we’re looking at whoever makes the widest or most snow worthy made and Camoplast seems to be the company doing that. Thanks to eveyone for there feedback! Oh and the Rhino's weight in just over 1100lbs (without extra's) PS Cowboy,, I use to reside in Gillette and still have many found memories of the BIG horns. Edited by arly, Jan 1 2009, 06:39 PM.
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| http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url] | |
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| Steve.M | Jan 1 2009, 06:19 PM Post #7 |
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I did some checking and here is what I found on weight and tracks and ground pressure- could be off here depending on model year but it's my best guess: Grizzly 700FI wt: 600# plus 270# for tatou tracks 1516 sq. inches of track on the snow (11" fronts, 12.5 rear; 36" rear, 28" front) 1.74 #/sq" Skandic SWT (2002) 610#? + hitches, front wt, etc: 700# 1344 sq " of track on snow (24" X 56") 1.92 #/sq" The UTVs might push the tracks some, power wise and floatation-honestly, my biggest concern when the forestry dept pushed the ATV over the Skandic, was ground pressure and having to regroom track marks out. I'm finding that is a non-issue in the grooming I've done so far on hardpack and soft new snow. I really really didn't want to use an tracked ATV, I wanted another skandic SWT...maybe a four stroke, but am gradually getting sold on the 700 Grizzlys' advantages. Had some fun just rippin around in 18" of powder today (just had to get those break-in hours on it you know!) and it never even hiccuped at cruisin thru the snow. I have found it very stable and not tippy at all-the tracks really stick out to the side, further than wheels and less tippy than the SWT-I hit some ditches today that would have put me over on the skandic. Just my 2 cents... |
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| arly | Jan 1 2009, 06:56 PM Post #8 |
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Gee, thanks for all the impute and ideas. Our locale Yahma dealer said they designed it to be narrow enough to fit in the standard pickup trucks. Hummmm Speaking of Rhino rollovers! http://www.yamaha-rhino-atv-rollover.com/index.html |
| http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url] | |
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| Steve.M | Jan 1 2009, 07:10 PM Post #9 |
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arly-I was going at a pretty good clip down the side of a country rd and hit a soft shoulder, which instantly pulled me into a deep ditch and up and over a culver driveway ( I know...scary) and the Grizz handled it well-I scared myself......and thought how stupid I was being close to the ditch, but was happy the machine saved my butt. When grooming it seems like I'm way up there (compared to a sno mo) but, like I said, the tracks are wide and the weight is centered because of it's design and it's very stable. No seatbelt needed like on the Alpine II.
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| TUG HILL ADDICT | Jan 1 2009, 07:58 PM Post #10 |
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The Winona Forest Sno-Rec club uses a Kubota Utility Vehicle with tracks |
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| Ricardo | Jan 11 2009, 08:31 PM Post #11 |
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In your calculations of surface area for flotation don't the skis count? They do support the front end of the snowmobile. |
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| Steve.M | Jan 12 2009, 07:50 AM Post #12 |
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oops....no, forgot the skis! That would add surface area for the swt. (Simmons flex skis- BTW). Guess my brain was focused on track area and pulling. |
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| RJW | Jan 12 2009, 08:02 AM Post #13 |
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CAN LET YOU KNOW HOW THE RHINO WORKS NEXT WEEK. TRACKS SHOULD ARIVE WED OR THURS. |
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| arly | Jan 14 2009, 08:02 AM Post #14 |
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Yesterday we chatted with ATVtracks.net folks who stated that the Tatou 4s tracks was the best system they sell and not the most expensive either. They also stated it was the most advanced track system built today and they’ve been very happy with them. Plus they’ve not yet seen a warranty issue in the 2 years they’ve been out. (Of course we’ve heard that before!) I asked what twas he best ATV to put them on and they said the Yamaha Grizzly or Rhino was their favorite and felt its drive system was the best on the market today. I also asked about its 660 motor which he said had plenty of power for the tracks in snow...... Gee another glowing review.
Edited by arly, Jan 14 2009, 08:04 AM.
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| http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url] | |
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| arly | Jan 18 2009, 10:04 AM Post #15 |
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We’re patiently waiting for your towing/grooming report concerning your Rhino with 4S tracks. Oh and let us know how much snow you’ve got. |
| http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url] | |
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