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Alpine hitch to Tidd Tech Trail Tenderizer HELP!; Hitch Height?
Topic Started: Dec 24 2008, 08:55 PM (2,708 Views)
Rick_Seebeck
Member
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We are a start up skiing club in Michigan. I have no experience grooming ski trails. We have purchased a used Tidd Tech Trail Tenderizer and a used 1981 Alpine I. I track packed the snow today (heavy 13 inches) with no problems. When I tried to tow the groomer, snow kept piling u in front of the groomer and I got stuck - a lot!

I have the snow really packed well so I am thinking that the stock Alpine hitch is too low. When the machine is level the groomer is tilted about 3 inches toward the machine. I am thinking of welding on a higher hitch point so that the groomer is about 4 inches higher at the hitch than the back.

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
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air19
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I'll ask maybe the obvious.

Do you have a hand cranking post that will raise the front end of the tenderizer? If so crank it all the way up. With that much new snow you don't need any teeth action.

In general with about 13 inches of snow, I'd be out there with my snowmobile going solo for at least a couple of passes and maybe even let these set overnight. Then I'd pull out my roller and pack it down farther. Finally I'd pull out the tenderizer.

With your Alpine/Tenderizer setup you will learn how much packing you need to do with the snowmobile solo before you start dragging the tenderizer.

Good luck.


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tolson
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First, 13" of wet snow is tough grooming conditions for anyone, especially if you're new to grooming. Mother Nature can be a tough teacher!

I agree with Air19 - before you start welding new hitches, get that snow packed down and let it set for a few hours - or freeze over night. If you try to groom the snow right after packing the trail, there's still alot of loose/sticky snow that will pile up in front of the TT.

We used Alpine's and Alpine II's with Tidd Tech Trail Tenderizer's for years. The hitch on the Alpine's is low, but you should be able to get the TT teeth up enough to get them out of the snow.

Another thought - having the front of the TT up too high can cause it to plow thru the snow and create the situation you described. If you had the front of the TT all the way up, it MIGHT help to lower the front of the TT a little bit so it can plane out and get on top of the snow.

Hopefully that wet snow will freeze overnight and you'll have better luck tomorrow. Don't get discouraged - grooming is more of an art than a science. There's a reason why those of us who have been grooming for many years are on these message boards - we're still looking for new ideas, tips, and tricks to make the grooming turn out better!

Let us know how things work out!
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couchsachraga
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I agree...track-packing with the Alpine solo, or using a roller (I home-built mine using 2 55 gal. plastic barrels end to end, with a pipe through them as an axle, and a wood frame (metal would be better). Total cost was $50....but the barrels were free (floated down the river). If you have farms in the area they may have some feed barrels they can sell you (farms in VT sometimes have thousands...).

Anything over 6" or so of fresh snow (depending on how wet it is) and I usually roll first, then use my "big groomer" as I call it (teeth and packer bar, though very different shape and weight than the Tidd) either later in the day (after it's set up) or better yet over night.

If you can, get out in the storm and groom while it's snowing to keep things packed down (roller is perfect for this). It makes a big difference in heavy snow falls.
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Rick_Seebeck
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I took all of your advice and went back out today half expecting to get a hernia from tugging on my stuck equipment. You were right! The track packed snow set up and groomed better than I could have imagined. Thank you all!

Long story, but some may enjoy it. My family and a few friends enjoy cross country skiing but the closest place is over an hour away. Last year, I convinced the County to allow me to develop and groom a trail at a 200 acre park. I went out and bought a Trail Tenderizer that had been modified to carry an additional 250 lbs. of weight. I began grooming with a Polaris Ranger outfitted with snow chains. I had very limited success and ended up breaking the Ranger. I decided that I needed a snowmobile to groom so I borrowed a buddies Polaris 500 trail sled. It kept getting stuck as well. The season ended before I could get any more frustrated or tear up any more equipment, thank god!

This year started out huge with tons of snow and the Ranger was not up to the task. I visited this forum and saw all the chatter about small operations and Alpine snowmobiles. I decided that I had to have one. Craig's List, 1400 dollars and a 36 hour road trip through a blizzard later, I am the proud owner of a 1981 Ski Doo Alpine. It is in pretty good shape and runs like a swiss watch.

The first day out grooming and track packed over 13 inches of the best snowball making snow in the world. I then tried to hit it with the Trail Tenderizer. You all know the rest of the story.

You can imagine how disappointed I was when I spent a full day pulling the groomer 40 yards at a time, getting stuck and then digging out.

For those of you who took the time to read this whole post, you can now understand how valuable your advice is to new groomers like me. Thank you for your help and know that a new groomer was saved from climbing in the bath tub with a razor ;) I will live to groom another day!
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air19
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Welcome Rick,

You have a good grooming combination with the Alpine and the Tenderizer. You will be able to handle the majority of snow conditions thrown at you. There will be some that you won't, but there is always another day. Lots of experienced groomers on this forum happy to pass on ideas and knowledge learned the hard way. Just ask.

I do have one suggestion to help jump start your education. On January 20th and 21st ABR Ski Trails is hosting their annual grooming clinic in Ironwood, Michigan. I went to one of these a couple of years ago and found it very helpful to be around about 50 groomers for a couple of days to soak up all kinds of ideas. Google ABR Ski Trails and you will find the info you need.

I repeat - you have good equipment. Almost the perfect match to get you into grooming. Good start.

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tolson
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Hey Rick,
You've learned one of the most important things about grooming - snow "sets" after a few hours. If you finish grooming and go skiing right away on the freshly groomed trail, it will be soft and your skis will break thru the surface. If you wait a few hours for the snow to "set", the skiing will be completely different and much better. That's why so much grooming is done at night (and because there is so little daylight in the winter). The snow has time to set before the skiers trash the trail.

Another reason to groom in the evening just after dark is that when the falling temperatures hit the dew point, you get a thin layer of moisture/frost on the snow (the same frost that forms on the windshield of a car). This causes the snow to set even tighter. Over the course of a several snow falls and groomings, this can make the difference between nice hard skiing surface and a 'hollow' trail where skis and ski poles punch thru the surface.

Welcome to the world of grooming. :welcome: You'll get to know about all the different types of snow and their unique traits, and when to groom and when to stay home and wait for the temperatures to fall. :winter:
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arly
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air19
Dec 26 2008, 11:20 PM
I do have one suggestion to help jump start your education. On January 20th and 21st ABR Ski Trails is hosting their annual grooming clinic in Ironwood, Michigan. I went to one of these a couple of years ago and found it very helpful to be around about 50 groomers for a couple of days to soak up all kinds of ideas. Google ABR Ski Trails and you will find the info you need.


Rick,

We'll have to second Air19 suggestion for attending ABR's grooming clinic. We're just 100 miles from Ironwood MI and try sending all our groomers to it. Education is a good thing to have. I've been to it twice and always learn new things plus get to see all the new equipment that's been developed. Although Eric (ABR's owner) doesn't seem to keep up his grooming web page up. Hummmm
http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url]
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Steve.M
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Welcome to the forum!
You'll find a ton of great info here-I think we have used/use just about every piece of equipment there is out there and are a pretty passionate group about getting trails "just so".....and all of us have been stuck/buried/broke down more times than we'd like. Our '04 skandic just stopped yesterday-like you hit the kill switch, and nothing would get it to fire up. That lead to an hr walk out of the bush in a Carhart insulated suit-at 5:00am. I knew I should keep snowshoes on the rig!
A lot of us have plenty of expeirence with the alpine TT combo-we still use that here on one trail.
Best wishes!
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