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Tucker 2000 Pulling a Marcel Drag; Any info on how well the Tucker pulls it
Topic Started: Apr 1 2008, 09:07 AM (4,524 Views)
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Is anyone using a '07 or '08 Tucker 2000 (w/ the new motor & transmission) to pull a Marcel / Rossco drag? This drag is a couple thousand pounds heavier than the MogulMaster.
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AFMI
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Dont be silly ,You can bearly pull one of those things with a 200hp farm tractor,Why would you want to punish your machine and operators. The Tucker is a great machine and with the proper drag it will last you along time and do a great job at a very low cost both in fuel economy and maintence .The trick to grooming is to pull something that you can put the blades down and cut with and not stall or spin out the machine,this is called grooming ,If you can only run it on the pan then just put a compactor bar behind it ,it would be a lot cheaper and use alot less fuel !

Gord.
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roady
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Look into a Maxi drag. It had some neat features but I haven't seen any in the east yet. Cooks was going to sell them but.......

A company in Colorado builds them and at the ISC 2 years ago in Vermont the boys from the Shop were overheard say "we've got some homework to do".
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Pekabu
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Did you mean Maxey? Koz has a link, but it brings up a login screen.
Southern NH Snow Slickers
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Koz
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I'm not sure what's going on with Maxey's website. :banghead: When I put the link up the site was working fine .. now it comes up with the login screen. Hope they get it fixed soon.
Koz
Ilion Snowdrifters
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Grooming-snow
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AFMI
Apr 2 2008, 08:26 AM
Dont be silly ,You can bearly pull one of those things with a 200hp farm tractor,Why would you want to punish your machine and operators. The Tucker is a great machine and with the proper drag it will last you along time and do a great job at a very low cost both in fuel economy and maintence .The trick to grooming is to pull something that you can put the blades down and cut with and not stall or spin out the machine,this is called grooming ,If you can only run it on the pan then just put a compactor bar behind it ,it would be a lot cheaper and use alot less fuel !

Gord.

:) Well I don't know any 200hp tractors that are pulling the BGROSSCO drag from Marcel Grooming :shrug: Last time I looked at the Jonh Deere spec sheets the 7420 John Deere 2 wheel drives are only 120HP & (The trick to grooming is to pull something that you can put the blades down and cut with and not stall or spin out the machine,this is called grooming) :myopinon: Yes you may be right about that, them there blades on the BGROSSO don't trip and go (chop chop) they do cut in very well, cutting only as much as is needed to give a well packed trail, No it is not a ladder type drag that has the side rails to ride on as the blades tip & trip & chop :wacko: So Ted that Tucker would look pretty good pulling a California Orange BGROSSCO Posted Image
Click Here For My ((Webpage)))http://www.snowcountrygroomers.com
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Randy Crosby
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Maxey's website is always a pain but thier groomers are top notch. They have a several styles and you can add or remove sections of cutters for changing snow conditions. They will also custom build the groomer to best fit your snowcat/tractor and snow conditions. They also make trailers specifically designed to haul snowcats.
There is a club up here in Alaska that has two of the Maxeys the pull behind a PB200D and a PB240 and they love them. B)
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jim228
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I would think that getting input and opinions from any club/individual that actually USES that particular drag (or the older Marcel drag) behind any Tucker 2000 would be more representative of what can be expected compared to having dealers that sell the units or competitive drags making comments here. Of course if your selling that one it would look great and if your selling a competitor's brand (or manufacturing your own) you'd say it wouldn't work. :myopinon:
Anyone out there have one that they have pulled for a couple of years now? Behind what machine and what HP? On paper, this new BG Rossco drag looks good. Heck, their standard model looks good! But for the cost of that new one, it might need to drive itself and then refine oil into diesel for the machine while it's working too! ;)

How about some pics of the Rossco working on the trail. It looks to me as though the snow would have a tendency to push out before the pan if the driver had a lot of down pressure on the rear trying to really compact the snow. :pics:
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Grooming-snow
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I under stand what your asking ;) Yes I do sell the BGRossco (but) all so offer Metal Plessis & Spooner drags & Trail Master drags who has been making drags longer than all most any one :shrug: So when some one asks what drag would I buy ? I say the BGRossco (then I tell them the cost & help them up :floor:)Even then club that have them or have seen them work :) and say ok! But it's what we want & dose the job. Because trails that hold up need to groomed less saving $$$
And if they say that they can't spend that much, then I offer them the 3 others or a used MGE/ Marcel drag and all so look at what part of the country they are from because trucking of a drag ani't cheap.
The days of a new multi blade 9'6" drag that some one builds in the back yard costing $8500 are gone hear in the midwest! Steel cost up along with fuel and just about every thing else.
Just to let you know that 3 years ago I sold a new BGRossco for $17,500 US funds
And what was Marcels Grooming price $25,000 canadain funds Same as what he is asking today! Back then @ 65 cents to the US Dollar I wish I could have loaded up on them
(JUST A SIDE NOTE THERE IS NO TAX IF YOU BUY GROOMING EQUIPMENT HERE IN WISCONSIN IT'S TAX EXCEMPT ) if used for trail grooming!
Click Here For My ((Webpage)))http://www.snowcountrygroomers.com
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Ebert
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jim228
Apr 2 2008, 12:31 PM
I would think that getting input and opinions from any club/individual that actually USES that particular drag ...<snip>... would be more representative of what can be expected compared to having dealers that sell the units or competitive drags making comments here.

Kin Ah get an AAAA-Men!? B)
It's big & it's blue & it's coming for you!
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Greggie
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Again about drags, we have two AFMI drags, one from 2000 and one from 2001. Both are rewelded many times. They are light build and do a so-so job. Cutting moguls, they aren't build for doing that. We have them behind our JD and they pull well. But we would like to replace them because they are in bad shape. Because we groomed so much this season, there is for the new season no budget available to buy 2 new drags, so we need to reweld them and make then doing their job another season. If we were in the situation to buy another drag, we would buy a Rossco or Ebert Welding drag. Have tested them both and they do a great job. You don't need 200HP to pull them. Most clubs who have already a Ebert or Rossco drag pull them with 90-120 hp.
Thanks,

Greg
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Thanks for the info, Greggie. It is sounding to me like pulling the Rossco with a Tucker would not be a problem. The Tucker motor is now 185 hp and has nearly another 100 ftlbs of torque compared to the old motor. As for drag weight, a MogulMaster will fill up with huge amounts of wet, sticky snow and the old Tucker still pulls it and it has to weigh more than a Rossco when filled with snow. Since the Rossco or Ebert can continuously bleed out the heavy stuff, there is probaby not much difference in the pulled weight.
Ted
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jim228
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Ted,
What do you mean when you say "snow bleeds out" on the Marcel? Where does it go if it doesn't go through the pan?
Also, we all know that tractor's HP ratings are at the rear PTO. So a 175 HP groomer doesn't have 175 HP pulling the drag. Tractive effort is different on machines compared to tractors.
I personally don't think the MM is that good of a unit anyhow. You can only get better with any other drag, especially since you groom deep snow with an 11 blade MM now and do a damn good job with it. Even a 6 blade MM would work better for you in some conditions, as their own website claims.
The AFMI drags work quite well for Trackside (ask anyon who rides there), and they groom bare RR tracks for many miles with their units. They have re-welded their's some too and had to replace the pan on one this year. They took it to Canada and the company fixed them right up.
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"What do you mean when you say "snow bleeds out" on the Marcel? Where does it go if it doesn't go through the pan?"

Go to Ebert Welding (Sur-Trac) website. http://www.ebertwelding.com/groomers/groom...rags/index.html

A picture is better than anything I can say. I've seen Sur-Trac drags work at Ebert's shop in Ontario & at Southern Tug Hill. Paul gave us an excellent demo of a Marcel/Rossco drag at Barnes Corners. All demos were in lousy conditions of packy or slushy snow. Fact - the snow clears the drag frame to be packed by the pan at a rate controlled by the operator. And "packed" is a key word. While controlling the snow bleed (there's that word again) rate, the operator transfers drag weight to the pan. Trails produced by these drags are harder and last longer - another fact.

They put the fixed-frame drags to shame. They're the next generation of drags and they're more $$. Heck, the drags we use now are a bit more $$ than the bedsprings used early in the grooming game. Last I checked, an 18-09 MM was close to $16,000. Spending that kind of money for yesterday's technology does not make sense to me.
Ted
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jim228
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Ted, are you saying that STH's trails were packed better, lasted longer, and were better than TC's? I hope not, as I & many others can attest to that as NOT FACT.
Guess I'd have to see it on snow in all conditions before I could make a decision. the Marcel.Rossco drag and the SurTrac drag are definately different beasts with distinctive differences.
The pics of the SurTrac in a parking lot don't show me much, and the "space" between the side rails and the pan would seem to allow all the snow to "bleed out" right there. As far as them NOT piling snow up on the pan or in the drag, see this pic: http://www.ebertwelding.com/groomers/groom...photos/wpe2.jpg

I know of 2 "homemade" drags that worked better (cut snow moguls better, processed and flowed snow easier, didn't leave balls over the sides or back, actually left a 3 - 4" rise on the packed snow ON the trail, left a harder packed trail, worked in warm weather, etc.) than another club's MM drags, and their Pres. was observant in seeing that and asked why? My answer was and still is (at this point until I do see it differently) "processing snow AND laying it down under the tapered pan is the key to keeping the snow on the trail, while filling holes at the same time." You saw one other brand work directly against a MM in very hard conditions and saw the difference. MM (in the NE, anyhow) is like Polaris sleds, IMO. They had the best out there for quite some time and others took that technology and upgraded it over and over to make better, less expensive drags (I'd NEVER pay 16K for any MM!). Now others have even more claimed technology into their drags with higher costs. I can't see spending that much overall when it MIGHT not be able to be pulled in all conditions behind certain machines.
Since I haven't seen that drag work as shown in the link ON SNOW in all conditions and can only go on looks right now, my question would be how much snow actually bleeds out and how can it work with the side rails up with no cutters on the ground:
http://www.ebertwelding.com/groomers/groom...nives_level.jpg
or with the rear knives up, how can any snow flow through to the packing pan:
http://www.ebertwelding.com/groomers/groom...ag_DC-rr_up.jpg
Seeing it in person or using it first hand would probably make me understand it better, I guess. But picturing 6" of snow or more being processed inside the rails and getting to go UNDER the pan that is pushing down on the ground with well over 5,0000 lbs. of pressure isn't clicking with me. I'm not sold. I can't fathom how it all can go under the pan to be packed when there's an escape hole for the snow to get out to the sides of the pan. The Marcel has what looks to be hinged plates along the sides, which also would allow snow to escape in my view.
My other concern is pan wear. How long will it take to wear through? I am sure that's part of their overall heavier claimed weight, with heavier guage steel making up the pan bottom?
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