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Opinions on various groomers for a startup club; SV 200 and Sur-Trac Tractor
Topic Started: Mar 18 2008, 06:29 PM (1,080 Views)
Kawidan
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Hey everyone,

We are still in the search for a startup groomer for our club to groom about 45 miles of trails and we've been considering a few options including an ASV Track Truck, Chevy Blazer with tracks, Sur-Trac Tractor or even a smaller Bombi Groomers.

Because this will be a startup grooming operation, we don't want to break the bank on our first year by going out and buying an expensive piece of equipment. So we are looking for something fairly reliable and don't want to have to break the bank on expensive repairs for an example if something happened to the Hydrostatic for an example.

Another thing that we are looking for would be a unit that is fairly simple to work on and hopefully have parts readily available to us when something breaks down. We are looking at spending roughly $15000 to $20000 for a startup machine. I do know that any unit will only be as good as the maintenance that was performed in the past, but I'm looking at opinions on various units assuming that the unit is in fairly good shape.

Our trails are over 10 feet wide and we don't have any big hills to climb, so the width of the machine and drag are not limiting factors in our search. We also don't have a lot of bogs so the weight of a Sur-Trac probably wouldn't be an issue either.

While doing some research on various used units out there, I seen a few units for sale and figured I'd ask your opinion.

The first unit we seen was from Ebert Welding. They have a 1991 FORD Sur-Trac 5610 with 1900 hours. The hours are pretty low which is a bonus, but it doesn't have a blade on the front. Another drawback of this unit is that it only allows 1 person in the groomer at a time. While doing some reading on this site, people say that you have to brake steer them if you don't have the drag hooked up which can be hard on brakes. We don't get a lot of snow up here, so I doubt we would be out without the drag very often. I also like the idea of the simpleness of the tractor and parts should readily available from your local farm tractor dealer. They are asking $19500 Cdn OBO for this unit

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I also ran across a 1975 Bombardier SV200 groomer that appears to be within our budget but I don't know much about these units. It's a 1975 4 door model with a 300 Straight Six Gas motor and according to the seller the motor is in great condition. The machine was checked all over this winter. Tracks were all reconditioned and the unit has solid tires and sprockets are in good shape. It has a 6 way hydraulic blade. The unit also comes with a 8 feet drag. They are asking $7500Cdn for this unit.

I'm still waiting to hear on the hours on this unit, but the machine being a 1975, I'm assuming that they will be up there. I'm wondering in what kind of problems we could run into with this type of older units.

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What other types of machines should we be looking at?

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Greggie
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Hi,

The Sur-trac is a good system, but $19,500 for a 1991 is high and you need a blade on the groomer. There is also a Marcel system, mostly build on MF tractors and this system is also a good system. If I am right, I know a MF 390T groomer for sale from 1998 for about $10,000. To go in the old BR's, I would not do that, there is too much risk for expensive repairs. We have 2 John Deere 6410 with a sur-track like system and they do a good job. It is all about the money, what do you want and how much money is available. We did also a try-out with a Cat Chalenger. This is a "farm tractor" with already rubber tracks installed, so you don't need any modifications. We think it did a good job.
Thanks,

Greg
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SCRR
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Tractor conversions are a good place to get started. We learned that your critera for buying a used machine should look like this.

1. Avalible volenteers and mechanical skill level.
2. Parts avaliblity.
3. Terrain (hills, swamps, drift formation, road crossings, bridge limits, ect..)
4. Fuel consumption and avalibility.
5. Do you really want to subject yourself to this :banghead: (total hrs on my rev this year = 6)

:grm:


If you don't fall off your not going fast enough!
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Pekabu
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SCRR
Mar 18 2008, 07:03 PM
5. Do you really want to subject yourself to this :banghead: (total hrs on my rev this year = 6)

:grm:

I agree, I have more hours grooming than miles snowmobiling.
Southern NH Snow Slickers
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Greggie
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Me the same, I groom only if we can't find someone else and I snowmobiled only 1000km this season
Thanks,

Greg
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drmiller100
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a used up old bombi or PB can be VERYVERY expensive to fix.

I'd sure consider the sur trak. IMO the blade on the sur track is there to keep you from getting bounced out of the cab when the moguls are too deep. otherwise the blade is pretty much useless on that thing because the drag does ALL the work.

that drag doesn't seem as nice as a modern one, but i bet it works at least as well as the rest on the market currently.

Rather then beat ebert on price, make them throw in some sort of written warrantee. pay the 19k, but ask them to cover half of unpreventable repair costs for the first 400 hours.

for instance, if the engine or tranny blows, you each pay for half. then you have an interest in doing maintenance, and they have an interest in training you correctly.
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SCRR
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The having a blade depends on your terrain and snow depth. We need the blade for clearing road crossings and filling in wash outs. Some snow banks pushed up by DOT were 8' high this winter and we had to leave the blazer home(no blade). There is no one machine that can do it all.

Our tractor is tough and will go almost anyware , but dosen't work well in deep snow or the tight, twisty stuff.

The blazer is comfortable,easy to work on, good in the tight stuff but dosen't take well to rocks or sharp washouts.

The T4 (12 way blade and tiller) works great almost everyware but is 14' wide, burns a lot of fuel, and is expensive to maintain.

:coffee: A wise man told me once, "Don't spend money on groomers, spend it on the trail first." Once you have the trail smoothed out, rocks picked, bushes cut, stumps pulled and bridges built your grooming program will go much better.
If you don't fall off your not going fast enough!
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Kawidan
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SCRR

I see that you are from the St-Stephen area. I'm just up the road from you in Fredericton.
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e2spear
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Kawidan
Mar 19 2008, 06:45 PM
SCRR

I see that you are from the St-Stephen area. I'm just up the road from you in Fredericton.

Then fill out the rest of your bio.

Blazers work great for the amount of money they cost, and very low maint.
8' snow banks seem very high. Not sure how they get that high on a regular grooming schedule.
Good words on spending money on the trail instead of grooming junk.

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Kawidan
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e2spear

Our club was looking at Blazers with Tracks like you guys have, but a few clubs around us told us that they wouldn't work very good and are trying to steer us in a different direction.

Not having seen them in action, some people are doubters of the setup. I keep telling them at a lot of clubs in Maine are using them and seem to do just fine with them.

One guy even said that a Blazer with tracks is more of a novelty toy. Not that he's ever seen one in action. :wacko:

So we are considering all our options and looking at what's out there.

I personally think that a Blazer would probably do the trick for us. Cheap to buy, pretty much any mechanic can work on them, parts are easy to get and we can bring more then one person along.

I know that one of the snowmobile club in St-Stephen has a Blazer with tracks and I've been trying to get a hold of one of the guys down there. It might actually be SCRR from this site.
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stevep
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I have to agree on your reasoning, a couple of years ago our club bought a small excavator instead of a groomer, and you can deffently tell where we have excavated and not.
As far as the blazers with track convertions find that club nearest to you with them and give them a try. I did and I was inpressed but if you compare them to a tucker or such that they are not but they are a lot better then grooming with a uttility snowmobile. I think if you check out E2spears clubs web site you will find that you can mount a blade to them. For the price you could get or make a couple of them and still be out cheaper then a used large one .
As far as snowbanks are conserned one of our members is also one of the local road agents, so when he takes the payloader out to clean out in front of signs and hydrants he also does where our trails cross the roads.
Evergreen Valley Snowmobile Club
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rrnut-2
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Our problem this year was people plowing their driveways into the trails, so we wound up with some very large snowbanks :angry: . Was glad the BR had a blade.
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SCRR
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e2spear
Mar 19 2008, 07:48 PM


8' snow banks seem very high. Not sure how they get that high on a regular grooming schedule.

We had 2 storms back to back and didn't get them groomed in time. It's a good point though, if you can keep up it makes life easier.
Somthing else is, if you can put more machines out for the same money it cuts down on volenteer burn out. It's a lot easier to get 3 people to groom for 4hrs than one person for 12 or 14.
If you don't fall off your not going fast enough!
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e2spear
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All excellent points. Our small club has 4 Blazers ans one S10 that is privately owned. Our normal runs are only 3-4 hours tops when everything goes well. I have made it in 2 1/2, but that did not fill in all the holes. I need to slow down. We have an excellent club and alot of people help out. Even most snow banks get taken care of by some people plowing near their houses. Others get taken care of w/ the groomer. As far as money goes compared to a sled, you get alot nicer trail.
I would love to have a big piece of equipment w/ a blade, it's just that we do not have the funding. Our 4 Blazers are still less then on big piece, and yes it is nice to have several people out grooming small sections.
Not sure where in New Brunswick you are in relation to Calais and Machias, but there are a few Blazers running around that area.
Talk to anybody that rides trails that are groomed by a Blazer, and you will hear no complaints. Not saying they are the best, but we have great trails, and a lot of fun making them. Now that to me is important.

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