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| G2 vs. Ginzu | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 16 2008, 09:07 AM (3,610 Views) | |
| tolson | Dec 31 2008, 01:12 AM Post #31 |
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That solid suspension for the Skandic looks interesting - but also kind of scary too me. I wonder how that would work going over snow banks at road crossings, at slow speeds? I have a thought about the Ginzu tending to plow thru and load up with snow in more than a few inches of fresh snow. Just behind the orange "sweeps" that are right in front of the matt/comb, there are black plastic 'inserts' that hold the snow in the middle of the Ginzu (see the red "X" in the attached picture). These are great in low snow conditions at keeping snow in the middle of the ginzu for the comb and track setter. But in deep snow they hold too much snow in the middle, and don't allow the snow to spread out to the entire width of the matt/comb. It's hard to say how much they contibute to the problem, and they can't be easily remove and re-installed. |
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| Steve.M | Dec 31 2008, 07:47 AM Post #32 |
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Good point on those black wings-I think you're right about them holding snow in in deeper stuff. The G2 doesn't have them and the snow does spread out a lot. I'm not sure I'd want to unbolt those all the time. I also think the steeper angle of attack on the compaction bed is part of it-that is great for packing a firm base, but not so good in deeper snow. The G2 has less steep of an angle. |
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| cowboy | Dec 31 2008, 05:42 PM Post #33 |
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I don't know if this will help your ginzus or not. If you look at most any modern alpine flex tiller they all have someway to transfer some weight to the finishers. The packer bars we run I built this way. Take away the knives, put the wings/scoops against the frame and that's our packer bars. I ran a fiberglass rod across the middle row of finshers, attached to, two flat pieces of flat fiberglass that are attached to the frame. To apply pressure I use turnbuckles attached higher on the frame. In deeper snow I lift the front edge of the bar just barely off the shop floor. In hard snow I relax pressure just till the rod is touching the finsher. At least I can control the snow load this way, another side effect is it acts kind of like a ladder style drag and actually fill holes instead of scouring them out. I started doing this when I was trying to get the chunks from the landscape rake I was screwing with to go under the finshers not around them. I'm kind of suprised Doug doesn't have something like this from the factory. Maybe It'll help |
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| Steve.M | Dec 31 2008, 06:24 PM Post #34 |
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Okay Cowboy....I need to see a picture of this set-up! I tried visualizing what you described, but I got lost along the way. |
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| couchsachraga | Dec 31 2008, 06:26 PM Post #35 |
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Do you happen to have a picture? I'd envisioned using a variable angle packer similar to a Tidd Tenderizer, and a curved, variable surface angle has also been mentioned. I follow the first half of your description, but am having trouble rapping my mind around the two flat pieces and thereafter. Oh- back to the landscaping rake - some local snowmobile folks shared with me that it will work, but the tines need to be "sprung" (old tines) and trimmed so they are vertical (and hence bend pack from 90 degrees, verses bending back TO 90 degrees, then beyond). Otherwise they just pull up chunks of snow, as you described to me earlier. |
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| cowboy | Dec 31 2008, 09:05 PM Post #36 |
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couchsachraga No pic, I'll see what I can do,(got lots of others for here someday too). Just looked at YTS website,remove the knives, shorten the hitch and frame to top of rubber mat. Add another foot of mat and comb behind it. That's my packer bars. My downpressure device, I attached 2 pieces of flat fiberglass, (think leaf springs) to the "pan". I attached a fiberglass rod across the "springs" exactly on top of my 2nd row of combs. From the top of my frame(about the top of mat on the ginzu) I added turn buckles and attached them about 3/4 of the way out the "springs". To add pressure/weight I lenghten the turnbuckle, lifting the front edge of the "pan", transfering some of the weight to the rear. MY mat and comb are very much like BR's tiller mat. I'm doing the same thing you want to do as "variable angle packer". I'm lenghtening the compaction area. Think of it like a tracksetter arm, my turnbuckle is the ram, the arm is my springs, the trackplate is were I'm movimg weight too. If you've ever set at tracksetter down with way too pressure on it and lifted the tiller?? same thing. After looking at yts site, the mat may be too short too do as I've described, sorry for the confusion.. |
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| mntrails | Jan 2 2009, 11:20 PM Post #37 |
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The thought about varying the pressure on a packer bar got me thinking. When I first talked to Doug at YTS 2 years ago about the Ginzu loading up too much with light fluffy snow, his first answer was 'lower the track setters and they'll lift the pan and allow more snow through. Well, we only run one track setter offset so doing that only lifts one side. We were talking about it again a year later and it dawned on me that the first season we had our Ginzu, it didn't load up as much but we didn't have a track setter. Doug's suggestion was to replace the bolt on the track setter with a hitch pin and remove the track setter when packing new snow. Not a bad idea but we haven't implemented it yet because it's handy to have the tracksetter with you. This discussion gets me thinking of 2 options: 1) take off the track setter and make something that is wider than a track setter but only 4-6" deep such that YTS comb can be installed on the underside. Then move the track setter actuator to the center of the Ginzu. Lowering this all the way should raise the pan of the Ginzu and leave a combed finish. Maybe it would make sense to make it as wide as the Ginzu pan so it becomes a finishing bar that also raises the pan. The Ginzu may be a little tippy - one would have to experiment. It would be nice to have a way to carry the track setter along, perhaps some kind of rack. 2) leave the track setter on but make a light weight aluminum attachment that could be attached to the bottom of it with pins through the skegs on each side. Similar to the above, make it as wide as the pan and put comb on it. Since it would essentially make the track setter thicker, it would allow the track setter actuator to lift the pan higher and let more snow flow through. In deep snow, you might have to make a pass with it installed and perhaps make a second pass with it off and set track at the same time. To keep the Ginzu from tipping to one side or the other when lifted, it would seem that there should be a way to use fiberglass fence posts or rods on both sides attached to the added finishing bar to apply enough equal pressure to make it stable. These are just thoughts now but the basic premise is to figure out how to use that existing rear actuator to raise the pan and let more snow through. Of course it would have to come off easily in the field and store on the top of the Ginzu. Something to think about. |
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| Steve.M | Jan 9 2009, 08:35 AM Post #38 |
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Ginzu vs G2 update. Well, as we move into mi-winter here and getting more hrs on the equipment, I have to admit I'm grabbing the G2 more often for general grooming. I think I know why-the width. Two passes gives me a foot or two of overlap. Since the tooth bar is wider also, I don't get that slight raised trail bed where the tooth bar misses. Being a lot longer than the Ginzu also cuts down small bumps in the trail because the cutting bar is centered. The tooth bar still trips some, but not as often-maybe I'm cutting shallower? We also adjusted the hitch so the front is slightly higher than the rear of the G2. I still like the Ginzu for cutting hardpack-the tooth bar and teeth themselves is a much better design (IMO). The teeth are more free flowing and trail junk doesn't get caught as easily. The wings and snow scoops on the Ginzu are also awesome for pulling in trailside snow. I know, each has an advantage. Yesterday I groomed two bypasses that were virgin snow and was able to just plow thru it with the skandic and G2 and not get stuck. Made a second pass and set tracks and it's good to go for striding. More as we get the Grizzly up and running pulling these drags.... |
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| tolson | Feb 7 2009, 02:35 AM Post #39 |
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I've been thinking about the rear packer option on the Ginzu. I think that would work, but it would have to be 18-24" deep so that it doesn't dig into the soft snow. Attach it to the bottom of the track setter so you don't have to carry the track setter separately. If you set it up so the front of the rear packer rests on top of the comb on the back of the Ginzu, that will help keep the Ginzu balanced/level and also make sure the front of the rear packer doesn't dig into the snow. See the black square in the attached picture (the blue line would be the comb). Another idea I had would be a front packer. This could be a piece of UHMW plastic that's curved on the front and attached to the teeth. The teeth would raise and lower it depending on the depth of the new snow. See the red line in the picture. Another version of this would be to attach the plastic to the front frame of the ginzu and the teeth. It would have to be a 'loose' connection on the frame so the angle can be changed as the teeth are raised and lowered. See the blue line in the picture. |
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