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G2 vs. Ginzu
Topic Started: Mar 16 2008, 09:07 AM (2,722 Views)
Steve.M
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Well, the G2 arrived from the Birkie this week and we hooked it up to our SWT for some testing. We have ALL the accessories, the goose neck hitch, the "scratchers" and thge elec hook up is a battery pack with a remote.
First impressions:
We've had 40+ temps most of the week and then down to 20 Friday night, so we have boiler plate base to try and chop up. We didn't have time yet to put the gooseneck on, so we used the standard hitch, problem was it is set too high and the cutting teeth barely could get low enough to chop. Cresting a hill, of course lowers the rig and it would cut really well and fluff the snow-it is a ton of force on the snowmobile, but it worked. The teeth are set up in two rows and will cut with the rear teeth first, then the front. The cutting bar has a shock/spring set up and it'll "trip" forward when it hits resistance-this suprised me a couple times because all of a sudden it would trip over and cut deeply. Once we get the hitch adjusted to the correct ht. it should be better.

It combs nicely-even this chopped ice and the evening before, we found it'll comb at pretty high (relatively) speeds. We bought the metal rake-like "scratchers" which TT claims work really well, but I just don't see how they can do anything-they flex so much, but we'll see how they are when we install them. The base was too hard to set tracks-I tried...maybe I'd have to add wt. on it in these really tough conditions.

I'd say in really hard pack conditions, the Ginzu cuts just as well, plus it is much narrower, so maybe it would put less stress on pulling (but more passes). Will try more today and report back in.
sm
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Steve.M
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Day two with the G2.
25-30 degrees, hardpack.

I wanted to try the "snow scratchers" we bought as an accessory. For the life of me, I cannot figure out what they do. There is a pipe welded onto the mounting arm just in front of (what looks like a metal rake tines). It's claimed they rough up the snow-hard snow? I left the cutting bar up and groomed around a little, and they didn't seem to do anything. The pipe dagged on the snow and the tines really didn't hardly touch the snow surface. Am I missing something here? I pulled them off and continued grooming....trying to adjust the cutting teeth down to rennovate the snow.

Well......everytime there was the slightest pressure, the tooth bar would "trip" over and it would cut over one inch deep-just about stopping me in my tracks! It seemed like either the cutting teeth were not touching and doing nothing or it'll trip over and cut too deep. Conditions today wer far from the hardest we've had. The manual said the "tripping" is made so teeth won't get damaged if you hit something...however, to me, it seems if it hit something, it cuts deeper! I had a frustrating couple hrs trying to rennovate the snow, with little luck. The spring/shock on the cutting bar is set on the highest tension (and I tried the lightest-much worse). My thinking is the cutting bar could be pinned so it doesn't trip, then at least you could adjust the teeth down to any depth you wanted.

I'd like to know from others who have used a G2 if they have the same issue. More as we test this....really wished I could have used the Ginzu-the cutting bar and springs are set up totally different and it would have cut this hardpack easily today.
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couchsachraga
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THANK YOU for taking the time to post these comparisons! Please keep us posted as you figure the G2 out. I'm still hoping to get a Ginzu or G2 in the next few years, as it will be a big step up from my current equip.
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Steve.M
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I'm gleaning groomers who ahve used the G2 and am trying to find out what the problem is with the cutting teeth.
I'm posting some pictures here with the set-up.

I really like the remote control for the teeth and tracksetter-it's awesome to "micro" control the heights; The unit sets great cordory at speed, and although the Ginzu does also, it seems like the speed must be slightly lower to get good cordory. I like the lower ht. of the Ginzu goose neck-the G2 one is REALLY tall and flexes some. I'd like to cut it down to reduce that. The goose neck is really imprortant-today, I got to a intersection and was able to jack-knife the skandic and G2 and turn right back on itself. I can do that with the Ginzu also, but the G2 seems to be able to "swivel" easier. A normal pindle hitch won't allow that.Posted ImagePosted Image[/IMG]Posted Image[/IMG]
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Steve.M
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Well, one more day of testing and some contact with Dave at TT, (and Air19) and I think we have part of the teeth cutting problems figured out. The gooseneck hitch mounting plate (onto the G2 frame) was wrong, and older model, which is allowing too much flex. I also discovered the tunnel deck on the Skandic is very flexy also-the gooseneck puts a lot of leverage there, so I think we'll have to mount a larger steel plate onto the deck, then the G2s ball plate ontop of that. SHould help a lot.

Snow is going, but we have a lot of base and should be able to continue testing as we make adjustments.
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Pekabu
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What happened to the pics? Any idea on what's going on with the Scratchers/tube? The tube placement in front of the scratchers doesn't seem quite right.
Southern NH Snow Slickers
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Steve.M
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The pics are still there? (At least I see them in the post).

Here are more:
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh84/tracktrucker/

In talking to Dave Zink, about the scratchers, I think we have to get the front end higher so the tines will touch before the pipe. We'll play around with it this week. TT is sending out a new hitch mount, the one we have isn't correct. We'll have to see if that corrects the cutting bar tripping. I think we'll put the standard hitch back on to experiment a little and get the front end up.

We will have to get a larger steel plate to mount on the skandic deck, the shet metal is a bit flexy for the ball mount plate. Hopefully we'll get this dialed in-right now we have snow and lots of freeze thaw to play with.
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Steve.M
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Well, with a dumping of snow, I had a chance to try the G2 out in deeper stuff (The thaw/freeze chopping test will have to wait!). I'll just say it can go thru fresh snow way better than the Ginzu-but there is a trade off, the base isn't packed as much. Makes sence, the G2 is wider and doesn't have as much ground pressure. I could have added more weight, and I think that'd help, but they weren't handy. It really lays out a nice cordory and the set tracks were perfect. The snow "paddles" really divert snow into the middle of the groomer where it gets packed-I liked those a lot. They float up and down with the trail.

We switched back to the standard hitch for now so we can test the cutting again, but that will have to wait a few days until we get hardpack. TT is sending us the correct hitch mount, and then we'll use the gooseneck again.

:letsnow:
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skier2
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Hi smeurett

I know its July but just saw you're post on G2 vs Ginzo. Keep us updated in winter on how its going. I'm still thinking getting ginzo sometime down the road if there are are some pros i can gain.
I was reading about you're problem, makes sences if the plate is flexing, other thing to check is that when you have the groomer hiched on snowmobile lower cutting bar to the ground, and make sure both front and back teeth are level or contact ground at same point. You can adjust the stops if they do not.
I have not noticed that problem but we do not use the goosneck, i might get one though.
Also we have the small and med G2 and on real hard packed we use the small G2 mostly for breaking up the surface, The med seems too wide for the SWT to pull in hard pack. Even at that we have to go over many times if hard packed and real cold out.
Other thing you can do if its jumping is do not go as deep which i know is more passes then to break up but??

Bob
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Steve.M
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mazurrj
Jul 9 2008, 05:30 PM
Hi smeurett

I know its July but just saw you're post on G2 vs Ginzo. Keep us updated in winter on how its going. I'm still thinking getting ginzo sometime down the road if there are are some pros i can gain.
I was reading about you're problem, makes sences if the plate is flexing, other thing to check is that when you have the groomer hiched on snowmobile lower cutting bar to the ground, and make sure both front and back teeth are level or contact ground at same point. You can adjust the stops if they do not.
I have not noticed that problem but we do not use the goosneck, i might get one though.
Also we have the small and med G2 and on real hard packed we use the small G2 mostly for breaking up the surface, The med seems too wide for the SWT to pull in hard pack. Even at that we have to go over many times if hard packed and real cold out.
Other thing you can do if its jumping is do not go as deep which i know is more passes then to break up but??

Bob
Hi Bob-
Hope the summer is going well. Well, some calls to Tidd Tech and we found out the hitch they sent was wrong-so we now have a new goose neck hitch and bracket that attaches to the G2-it looks much more solid and should prevent the bouncing. As for my problems setting the teether too deep-nope, I'd just barely lower them and all of a sudden, they would "catch" and spring down and about stop me in my tracks. We ran out of winter in the end to test the new goose neck, but it makes sence that it'll help. Also, we'll add a steel plate on the back of the skandic to firm that mounting point up. The tunnel steel just flexes too much.

Another issue may come up-we're looking at getting a Yamaha Grizzly 700 to use as our groomer pulling machine (the county has no faith in another skandic SWT, although I'd like one) so we may have to do something about the hitch set up on the ATV. Hopefully, we'll get Tatou tracks and the power steering, which has been recommended to us by ABR in Ironwood, MI.

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couchsachraga
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Any snow yet out your way? We have a foot or so here, which has allowed me to groom a bit...and wish I had a Ginzu or G2! I'm stilling trying to set time to meet with a friend of mine who wants to build a groomer too, and is an expert welder....

After looking at more images of the "new" Ginzu, and the DVD of the G2, I'm very curious to see what you think each of their strong / weak points are.

I like the "super flaps" and "snow movers" that the G2 has...but I think the Ginzu has a better knife setup.

And for the packing comb, I'm sticking to my idea of a variable angle. I'm assuming Tidd and YTS have stayed away from that idea due to weight / cost / durability, but given our extremely variable snow in the east coast I think it's important.

:letsnow:


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Steve.M
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No grooming here yet-just an inch on the ground.

The Ginzus "wings" and snow scoops on the sides are a huge help-they really do pull lots of snow in from the side and move it to under the center of the groomer. We've really liked that for the past 3 years. The G2s snow paddles to work okay also, but they also float up and down some and don't seems to scoop the snow off the sides like the Ginzus (the rear, stiffer wing...if that's what Yellowstone calls 'em). I totally agree with your view on the teeth set-up, the Ginzu works well and seems fullproof. Now, maybe with the new hitch on the G2, we'll get away from the tooth bar tripping all the time-although, other users haven't seemed to have this problem.

Will keep things posted on here as we get into grooming season.
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Steve.M
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Dec 9th- we pulled out of the grooming garage with two Skandic SWTs, one with a G2, the other with a '07 Ginzu. We had between 4-7" of new powder on top of previously packed snow base.

Right out of the door, the Ginzu bogged down-too much snow to handle, so we tag teamed-the G2 lead the way (no problem with the depth of the snow) and I followed with the Ginzu-overlapping his pass and setting track. In that way, we were able to make one pass on our entire trail system. It's very obvious the Ginzu packs the snow firmer because the compaction bed is smaller than the G2....but it's nice to not have to pack everything first with the sled before grooming with the Ginzu. Still.....both rigs have their place and we'll continue to test them in every condition we can. BTW, the Ginzu has a gooseneck, while at the moment, the G2 is a straight tounge hitch (we're installing a gooseneck soon).

We will be getting a Yamaha Grizzly 700 with power steering and Tatou tracks soon to pull the Ginzu. It'll be outfitted with a 2" reciever hitch, heated grips, windsheiled, tool box and either hard wired for the electric rams or we may try to find a remote box and battery pack for powering the rams. We really like that set up on the G2. In that way, we can pull with any machine and not have to worry about the wiring.
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Steve.M
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^o) Hmmmm, Dec 16th Ginzu vs G2.
We had +40 Sunday and -20 last night-obviously the trail conditions went from great skiing to very hardpack. It was snowing lightly (fluff) tonight, but I wanted to try the hardpack cutting ability of each design. The base was by no means as hard as it can be-we've had shear ice before and boiler plate, but today was just frozen snow. I started with the G2 and set the teeth just tickling the base. Sadly, it didn't take long until the G2 started it's "tripping" thing again. This happened last spring and Tidd Tech said it was the gooseneck hitch, which wasn't the proper one for this model. They suggested connecting the straight hitch and trying it (less flex) or wait til the new goose neck arrived. Well, we just left the straight hitch on for now. I did a 2 km loop and the tooth bar constantly kept tripping over, like if you'd hit a stump or something. Very frustrating. The shock/spring is set as tight as it can go so I'm out of ideas here. I drove the rig back to the pole shed and fired up the Ginzu. The Ginzu tooth rack is set up much different. the whole rack will tip on a spring loaded bar, but springs right back. I set the depth about the same and groomed 10km withouit a problem. It does lean over from time to time, but not the agravating "tripping" of the tooth bar that the G2 does. I know other users haven't had this issue with the G2, so I'm optimistic, maybe something can be changed, but I don't know what.
Verdict: Hardpack, the Ginzu wins big time.
Soft snow, The G2 doens't bog down or pile up
Packing snow-The Ginzu, less surface to wt pressure so the base packs better. The scoops and wings also haul in snow from the edges of the trail well.

All for now.
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skier2
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smeurett,

Yes, something wrong with the tripping, unless the new G2's designed a little different. We got the 2nd year G2 and pull with a SWT Skanick , no goose neck.
It does not trip unless hit something, but if real hard pack, i have to watch it as the belt on the snowmobile take a beating from all the pulling force needed. on boler plate as you said i just put it touching a little and just make more passes going a little deeper each time.
We have the med and small G2 so sometimes use the small on real had pack to give the snowmobile a break.
One problem we had with snowmobile is had to replace springs, they bent from the weight of med G2, guess the goose neck might help that some.

On the tripping , our hitch only thing i can think of is our hitch has a spring loaded cap on it, that when i put the knifes down the groomer link pushes up against the cap so the groomer has constant down pressure from the snowmobile.

Also looking forward to here how the ATV performs compared to you're old skandic

Bob
Edited by skier2, Dec 17 2008, 06:17 PM.
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