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| Can Anyone help with Blade Function Problem? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 24 2008, 10:57 PM (2,089 Views) | |
| garygaboury | Jan 24 2008, 10:57 PM Post #1 |
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There is a lot of people on here that know alot more that I do about cats and I was wondering if someone can point me in the right direction. We have a 2000 BR275. When using the blade control holding the side button activates the wings on the blade. Holding the button and moving the joystick forward or back controls the left wing. The Problem is, After using the left wing the control seems to stick on.. Sort of. After letting go of the button the left wing is still moving when the joystick is pushed forward or back. The left and right motions on the joystick work as they should. While holding the other blade function button or just using the stick the left and right motions work fine but forward and back still only control the wing. After 5 minutes of frustration I was able to get the blade to raise out of the snow and drive home. Back in the yard I was able to duplicate the problem just by using the wing again. Pushing in the "problem" button does activate the relay and I'm not sure where to look from here... Any help would be appreciated.. Thanks Gary |
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| Randy Crosby | Jan 25 2008, 02:24 AM Post #2 |
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I'm not familiar with the BRs but I do have alot of experiance trouble shooting electrical problems. My first quess would be the relay itself is sticking. Most likely there is another relay in the system that you can swap and see if the problem goes away. Next I would check out the switch which might require taking it out of the joystick and using an ohm meter to see what it is doing. Once you disconnect the switch wires the problem should go away if it is indeed a bad switch. The next area I would look at is the electric over hydraulic selenoid or selenoids that control the wing as well as the one that controls the up/down function. Of course any wiring in the system should also be looked at and a multi meter should be some where nearby. If all else fails bring it by my place and I'm sure by April 30th I'll have it figured out! |
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| garygaboury | Jan 25 2008, 03:15 AM Post #3 |
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I appreciate the reply. I figure that it is electrical as well but I think I have ruled out the switch. Yesterday when you hold the button in and move the stick forward and back it controls the left wing. Holding the button and moving the sitck right and left controls the right wing. Today moving the stick left and right works correctly with all the blade functions. The right wing works with the proper button pressed and stops when you let go of the button. It seems the button is only having trouble with the Up and down movement of the stick that controls the left wing. Thats the part that I don't understand. I was also thinking a stuck relay might be the cause and I did switch it out with another. The part that is getting me is the switch works with left/right movement as it should. It just sticks with up/down movement. I could only find one relay but maybe I didn't look hard enough... I'll pull the switch in the morning. Thanks Gary Any BR experts out there? |
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| trailboss77 | Jan 25 2008, 06:02 AM Post #4 |
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We ran into that problem once before with one of our BR180's. Turns out it's not electrical at all. It was one of the "spindles" I beleive they were called. (Maybe a spool) It's in the hydralic switch boxes under the cover on the blade. The hard part is figuring out which one is bent. You won't be able to see the bend with the naked eye but once you replace it with one that isn't bent, everything starts working properly again. |
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Have been grooming since 1978 have covered more than 100,000 miles of snowmobile trail. | |
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| Don McMurchy | Jan 25 2008, 06:56 AM Post #5 |
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Moderator candidate
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You have to stop spilling coffee on the controls.
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| flyingcow | Jan 28 2008, 08:49 PM Post #6 |
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maybe its whats in the "coffee" :rolleyes: |
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Equipment used - Suretrac TS-110 and TM-140 www.benedictasnowgang.com | |
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| Randy Crosby | Jan 29 2008, 03:42 AM Post #7 |
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Did you ever have any luck getting your blade to function properly? |
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| garygaboury | Jan 30 2008, 01:46 AM Post #8 |
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So, I took a couple days off.. it's been a long couple weeks. I made a couple calls,, asked a lot of quesitons and tore some things apart. In the end I'm 95% sure I've narrowed the problem down to one sticky valve. the place we bought the cat told me they have re-builds on the shelf and I think I'm going to order one first thing in the morning. I'll post what I found and did to fix the problem when it's actually fixed. Thanks Again Gary BTW: As long as I don't use the left wing that cat is still in working order.. the wing only sticks 50% of the time... I just have to remember not to use it... |
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| nhmx271 | Jan 30 2008, 05:00 PM Post #9 |
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If the spool is sticking. Just remove(easy to do), chuck it in a drill and polish with a "Scotch-Brite" pad or something similar from the cleaning products aisle. Do not use anything course. Spritz with some brake clean, some for the hole as well. I would do the roll/angler function spool as well. |
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| garygaboury | Feb 1 2008, 01:10 AM Post #10 |
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Based on advice from nhmx271 I opened up the valve again and polished the spool with a scotchbrite pad. Before polishing you could feel a noticeable difference between that valve and the others. It feels good now and the blade works well in the yard. I'll have the cat out Friday night for a good run and see how it does... Thanks for the advice Gary |
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| garygaboury | Feb 6 2008, 03:34 AM Post #11 |
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O.K.,, I'm almost ready to admit defeat. After grooming tonight there is still a problem. I have replaced the valve with a re-build and it's still acting up. Tonight the blade worked perfect for 4hours or so before the problem came back. Something else I noticed is that the wing left wing seems very underpowered. the right wing is strong and can move snow, the left cannot. Also while pushing snow the left wing gradually comes back until it's straight and resting on the stops. To go from full in to full back on it's own takes about 10 minutes of grooming. If I push a lot of snow with the blade the wing comes back quick and the blade malfuncitons almost immediatly. I've ruled out the electrical since using two blade function buttons work correctly while moving the joystick left and right. Pressing and releasing the buttons trigger the relays under the dash and I have switched relays around for testing. Do you think it could still be the problem? What am I missing? Any ideas are welcomed... Gary |
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| Randy Crosby | Feb 8 2008, 01:09 PM Post #12 |
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Gary, I thought I'd wait a few days to see if someone who was familiar with the BRs would respond. First, many times in my career with all sorts of machines, I have seen rebuilt and new parts fail or not perform properly, so the rebuilt valve could be causing you additional problems. When a hydraulic cylinder bleeds back like your wings' does then it has either an internal or external leak in the cylinder, or the control valve is leaking internaly or is misadjusted (pressure relief valve needs adjustment?)or a line or fitting is leaking. You would see an external leak so that problem is internal on the wing bleeding back and I would suspect the rebuilt valve as the cause. Can you swap valves and cylinders from side to side to trouble shoot? Is the original problem still the exact same malfunction where you loose up and down control and the wing can only be activated? Without seeing a schematic of the electrical and hyd. system I'm just guessing here. When you push to switch on the joystick and the relay is activated, then a elec. signal must be sent to one "combo" valve that removes the up/down function and activates the wing function, or it could be two valves with the up/down normaly "on" and the wing normaly"off" until the button is pushed. Again can you swap the rebuilt valve with another to see if the problem moves to another function? Hope this helps. Randy |
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| garygaboury | Feb 9 2008, 10:03 PM Post #13 |
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Thanks for the reply.. I think I've decided that the ram on the left wing is bad. The valve for that wing has a plug on one end and a solenoid on the other. When the wing sticks and I pull the plugs out you can feel the valve is stuck, I'm unable to move it at all. If I pull off the solenoids and give the spool a little push it moves easily and you can hear a "woosh" of air as the pressure lets go. When I put it back together it works fine for a few minutes before sticking. Once "un-stuck" the spool moves very nicely within the valve. That leads me to believe the problem isn't in the valve but instead the pressure is building up somewhere else and making the valve stick. Looking closer at the ram I can see that one end of the ram has actually expanded. The paint has cracked all around the cylinder and when checked with a straight edge you can see it has expanded. I assume this is the sourse behind the weak wing. I would have assumed taht with that much pressure a hose would have let go. Could this also cause the sticky blade function? I'm calling a local heavy equipment mechanic to come take a look on monday. Gary |
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| Nuggs | Feb 10 2008, 02:08 PM Post #14 |
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Leave it smoooth!
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I admire the way you stuck in Gary and for what you described as being a recent starter in these things, I think you did well to work it out as you did. In relation to the heavy machine mechanic, dont feel donw at giving in, I often advise that if I wanted teeth out Id go to the dentist, if I wanted my organs removed It be a surgeon, if I want my haricut (whats left of it) Id go to the hairdresser etc etc so sometimes, as much as we try to be cost effective, the right person for the job can make things happen quicker and perhaps cheaper..in the long run. Good luck Monday. |
| Bring on more European experience! | |
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| nhmx271 | Feb 11 2008, 04:09 PM Post #15 |
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Never seen that before (lol) Actually is quite common. Cold oil in the extended cylander can not get out fast enough when you smack the wing off of something. Cylander then becomes pregnant looking. And no the hose will not blow under those circumstances |
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