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XC Trail Groomers
Topic Started: Jan 21 2008, 10:46 AM (6,888 Views)
79bombi
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79bombi
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Dumb question - how wide do you need to groom for skate skiing? I have a 5 foot wide Bombi and am working on a roller contraption. I am in the east and the snow is ususally only around for a week or two and then it is like today 50 degrees and rainging.

79Bombi
1979 Bombardier Bombi

Deep Creek Lake, Maryland
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skier2
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for skate and classical together you need about 12feet, skate alone I'd say 7 1/2-8 feet.
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skier2
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smeurett
Feb 6 2008, 07:50 AM
mazurrj-will do, we just ordered a G2 from Tidd tech...it's a demo model used at the American Birkebiner in Haward WI...so we'll get delivery after Feb 24th. Save us some cash anyway. It does have a goose neck hitch and I'll assume a remote power pack on the rig.

Now our issue will be what to get to pull with next year-our county is adamant about NOT buying another Ski-doo Skandic SWT...I think the blown tranny and piston were a fluke this winter (plus the tranny oil had never been changed, it's a 2004). For the money, I'd vote for the SWT, but I don't have a vote. The Alpina is super sweet, but the $32,000 price tag puts it out of reach. A Yamaha VKpro maybe, but there are cooling issues and a 20" track, and I don't think tracked ATVs will work with their higher ground pressure compared to a SWT.

Wow we use a 2004 SWT too, hopefully was a fluke. A lot of people using the SWT with Ginzu and G2. I know what you mean though would be nice to have something like the Alpinia that would be the ultimate.
I don't know what i'd do, not a lot of other options beside VK and SWT in that price range. I do not think i'd feel comfortable with the tracked ATV type unless I heard more using them or actually got to demo pulling the Ginzu or G2.

That e-mail address i gave you for Eric Anderson , he is up on the use of the two groomers and he may be able to give you some ideas for what might be best.
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Steve.M
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I still like the SWT a lot, I got into a "disscussion" with the forestry dept. over what to buy for next year-they are not going to buy another skandic. I tried to explain, we have used 3 of them over the years and not one bit of trouble until this winter...my thoughts are it was just bad luck.

I agree, there are few choices out there-

A VK pro, nice machine, 4 stroke, gobs of torque, well finished, but 20" track and cooling issues?.
SWT, good low range, powerful enough, air cooled, huge track.
Skandic V800, 4 stroke, powerful, but timing chain issues and exploding gas tanks!
Tracked ATVs-too much ground pressure?
Alpina Sherpa-has everything you'd want, but $$$$$$
Track truck (we have one) good, but still having a snowmobile too is so important.
PB100- ultimate XC cat, rubber tracks, tiller comfort...yeah, dreamin here!

I'll try to write Eric at ABR-thanks!
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mntrails
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I just happened to see this thread and thought it a good reason to sign up. Our club grooms 2 sites in Rochester MN. We use Skandic 550F WTs, a Ginzu , and a variety of home-made drags to comb and scarify hardpack. It's an all volunteer effort with everyone being skiers.

We have photos of some of our equipment at this site although it needs a refresh.
http://rasc.multisportsystems.com/page/show/19705
The main site is www.rasc-mn.org. We've built our trails so there's a fair amount of pictures and information about the process.
It seems the website always gets a little out of date over the winter.

We're planning to get another groomer this year. I've been looking at both the G2 and the Ginzu. We've had good luck with our current Ginzu. As other's have mentioned though, it does tend to fill up with more than 3"+ of dry snow thus requiring packing before-hand. It's simple, rock solid and sets a great track even in low snow conditions.

I've never used a G2 but it seems there's more to adjust and not 'work quite right'. And while it is said to ride up on deeper snow and not fill up, that probably isn't a well packed trail surface. Does anyone have a lot of experience with both that has found any over-riding reasons to go with one vs. the other? Thanks!
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Smooth Operator
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Ah, the start of another season.
We get things rolling with our Alpine II's and a SWT.
I try to do all the implement pulling with the Alpines, nothing can touch them for this application.
The SWT is ok with the rollers, but gearing is too high to be a serious working machine, and the fuel usage is ridiculous. The Alpines will chug all day on a tank.
Due to sweet snow conditions, the Ginzu is used basically for track-setting. Compaction is done mostly with rollers, and a YTS 60" drag.
As soon as we have about 6-8" of compact on the early, smooth trails, we have a BR400 with a set of summer rubber tracks. These are less aggresive than grousers, so we can get tilling and tracksetting earlier.
Then as things pile up, its onto the regular assym tracks, and open trails as snow allows. To the summit early, and the lower trails last.
Wishes for a good season to all.
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Steve.M
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mntrails
Apr 11 2008, 06:33 PM
I just happened to see this thread and thought it a good reason to sign up. Our club grooms 2 sites in Rochester MN. We use Skandic 550F WTs, a Ginzu , and a variety of home-made drags to comb and scarify hardpack. It's an all volunteer effort with everyone being skiers.

We have photos of some of our equipment at this site although it needs a refresh.
http://rasc.multisportsystems.com/page/show/19705
The main site is www.rasc-mn.org. We've built our trails so there's a fair amount of pictures and information about the process.
It seems the website always gets a little out of date over the winter.

We're planning to get another groomer this year. I've been looking at both the G2 and the Ginzu. We've had good luck with our current Ginzu. As other's have mentioned though, it does tend to fill up with more than 3"+ of dry snow thus requiring packing before-hand. It's simple, rock solid and sets a great track even in low snow conditions.

I've never used a G2 but it seems there's more to adjust and not 'work quite right'. And while it is said to ride up on deeper snow and not fill up, that probably isn't a well packed trail surface. Does anyone have a lot of experience with both that has found any over-riding reasons to go with one vs. the other? Thanks!
We've had two Ginzus, a '08 and '07 model and they have worked well, except for 3" plus snow-they'll load up and you get stuck. Trails have to be backed with a snomo or roller first. Otherwise, the wings and scoops work excellent and track setting is perfect. We just bought a G2 and am really anxious to compare this season-I think it'll be better in deeper snow. It IS longggggg though and a big rig compareds to the Ginzu. We'll test ice chopping ability also.
We use a SWT and maybe (this year) a Kubota TUV with tracks...not so sold on using that, but we'll see-the county is pushing us to use it because they happen to have a Kubota sitting around all winter.
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Steve.M
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Smooth Operator
Nov 5 2008, 04:12 AM
Ah, the start of another season.
We get things rolling with our Alpine II's and a SWT.
I try to do all the implement pulling with the Alpines, nothing can touch them for this application.
The SWT is ok with the rollers, but gearing is too high to be a serious working machine, and the fuel usage is ridiculous. The Alpines will chug all day on a tank.
Due to sweet snow conditions, the Ginzu is used basically for track-setting. Compaction is done mostly with rollers, and a YTS 60" drag.
As soon as we have about 6-8" of compact on the early, smooth trails, we have a BR400 with a set of summer rubber tracks. These are less aggresive than grousers, so we can get tilling and tracksetting earlier.
Then as things pile up, its onto the regular assym tracks, and open trails as snow allows. To the summit early, and the lower trails last.
Wishes for a good season to all.
I use an Alpine II on my home trails pulling an older TT. Works well and I have the steering dialed in. Doesn't ride as nice as our SWT though. I never thought the SWT had pulling problems (in Low range) and we pull some big hills on our trails.

Soon, with the first snow, we'll just roll everything to get the base frozen, then work on whatever snow we're given.
(after deer gun hunting season that is......)
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skier2
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Here is a good articale on snowmobiles used for grooming.
Attached to this post:
Attachments: gromming.pdf (891.64 KB)
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arly
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smeurett
Feb 7 2008, 08:49 AM


A VK pro, nice machine, 4 stroke, gobs of torque, well finished, but 20" track and cooling issues?.
We’ve been using a VK Professional for 2 years now so I guess it’s a 06 model and sad to say I wouldn’t mind giving it away. If anyway cares to hear complaints they are; The transmission frequently won’t switch between gears, usually happens when you’re stuck. Heat exchanger produces copious amounts of wet snow to stick on your grooming machinery, Overheats whenever the temps get into the 30’s, also likes to vapor lock whenever its warm out and your pulling hard. And yes we went against the advice of our local dealer and had the extra radiator kit installed in it before we took delivery. Funny thing he said to us back then was “we’re just wasting our money on that extra radiator!”. Now we wish it was larger! (it now has 3 radiators and one heat exchanger)

Minor complaints might be that the fuel mileage is rather poor, has more power than needed so it breaks traction easily, battery is located in the bottom/front of the engine compartment and very difficult to access, Its quite top heavy so it tips easily.
Edited by arly, Dec 7 2008, 08:51 PM.
http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url]
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tolson
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Our club just got a new 2009 RS Viking Pro. I've driven it once - 6 miles around our lake - and I'm not real impressed.
* I wasn't pulling anything, so I don't know about overheating yet.
* The transmission got stuck several times, and I wasn't even pulling anything.
* No neutral - I really hate that...
* It seems to 'jump' from zero to 15 mph. I had a really hard time trying to maintain 6-8 mph.
* In 30 minutes, I was numb. Higher sitting position, smaller windshield, and smaller/lower front-end leave the operator exposed, and I think the liquid cooled takes all the heat away from the operator (I had done the same loop on my Skandic SWT 550 Fan Cooled pulling a drag, and I was toasty warm...)
* It turned like crap, and I wasn't even pulling anything. Need to tighten the suspension.

It does drive smooth and quiet over 15 mph, but that's of little use for grooming. I hope it gets better and the guy who does most of our grooming gets used to it...
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couchsachraga
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That's what I like about you Tolson (and this board in general) - honesty! We're spread to far apart to talk about equipment in general.

I had a good look at a new Skandic the other day - NICE looking machine. I'll be curious to hear how the four-stroke works out for XC. Looks good on paper at least (and likely a bit warmer than my old Alpines ;) ...less cranky too!).

I happened to read about the Saratoga Ranger again, and realized they're made "locally" (within an hour or so). That may be come my new "dream machine" , as it's a lot more affordable (and better maintenance wise) than a Bully!

For what it's worth I'm working with a local fellow revamping his snowmobile trail groomer design for XC. Yes, I still have my own plans I'd like to build, but that will take more time and $ than i have now. I'll keep you all posted on both as they progress though!


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arly
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couchsachraga
Dec 9 2008, 07:18 PM
I happened to read about the Saratoga Ranger again, and realized they're made "locally" (within an hour or so). That may be come my new "dream machine" , as it's a lot more affordable (and better maintenance wise) than a Bully!

For what it's worth I'm working with a local fellow revamping his snowmobile trail groomer design for XC. Yes, I still have my own plans I'd like to build, but that will take more time and $ than i have now. I'll keep you all posted on both as they progress though!


This tracked ranger looks interesting so if you or anyone gets to test one in the field, please let us know your thoughts. We test drove a few tracked ATV’s at ABR’s grooming clinic last winter and thought they would freeze the operators and steering them was a arm wrestling contest. This Sarasota ranger apparently has power steering. Thanks for any equipment reports given :jump: including the above Yamaha Viking
Edited by arly, Dec 10 2008, 12:22 PM.
http://keweenawnordic.org/ [/url] keweenawnordicskiclub.blogspot.com [/url]
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javatandem
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arly
Dec 10 2008, 10:42 AM
couchsachraga
Dec 9 2008, 07:18 PM
I happened to read about the Saratoga Ranger again, and realized they're made "locally" (within an hour or so). That may be come my new "dream machine" , as it's a lot more affordable (and better maintenance wise) than a Bully!

For what it's worth I'm working with a local fellow revamping his snowmobile trail groomer design for XC. Yes, I still have my own plans I'd like to build, but that will take more time and $ than i have now. I'll keep you all posted on both as they progress though!


This tracked ranger looks interesting so if you or anyone gets to test one in the field, please let us know your thoughts. We test drove a few tracked ATV’s at ABR’s grooming clinic last winter and thought they would freeze the operators and steering them was a arm wrestling contest. This Sarasota ranger apparently has power steering. Thanks for any equipment reports given :jump: including the above Yamaha Viking
does anyone know the price on a Saratoga Ranger? :jump:
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Koz
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I'm not sure of the price but here's some more info with contact information.
Saratoga Ranger Website


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Ilion Snowdrifters
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