Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

When you register for an account you will see the following message -Due to the amount of "spammers" trying to get on the board all registrations must be approved by me. What this means is that after you register your registration must be authorized. Also your email address has to be verified, you will receive an email with a link YOU MUST CLICK ON THIS LINK TO VERIFY YOUR EMAIL OR YOUR ACCOUNT WILL NOT BE APPROVED. I check the message board several times a day and approve registrations as they come in. Sorry for the wait but it is necessary to keep the spam off the boards.Thanks,Koz It is very important that you click on the link in the email to validate your email. Please check your spam folder as the email message may be sent there by your email provider. IF YOU DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK YOUR ACCOUNT WILL NOT BE APPROVED !!!


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
XC Trail Groomers
Topic Started: Jan 21 2008, 10:46 AM (6,887 Views)
couchsachraga
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
As it appears there are a few of us who groom primarily for XC, I thought I'd start our own thread on favorite groomers, both drags (implements) and vehicles.

I really like Pisten Bully's, and have operated several for our local XC center over the years. That said, for my personal trails I can't afford a PB...so I'm using an old Alpine I (I have two now, which I feel is a minimum after having one break down rather badly way back in the woods).

I've been thinking about a track converted Blazer, S10, or Tracker, but they all seem a bit big for a lot of my trails. I must say the Soucy Gator has my attention - that with a (heated) cab and blade would be a smart little rig. I'm guessing when all is said and done tough, your talking 15k+ new.... I do have a small (33hp diesel) tractor, and tracks on that could be interesting, though I do wonder about stability on side hills.

Implement wise I think a Ginzugroomer is tough to beat. What i use these days on my personal trails, though, is a home built snow roller (using two 55 gallon plastic barrels for the roller)(cost me $60 in materials to build...not bad!), and a retrofitted Bombardier trail groomer (removed rear skis and snowmobile packing pan, and replaced with a packer bar with snow comb under it). It was cheap, and works well.

Items I do not have much use for include Tidd Techs (I'm sure they are great when you get a few fresh inches of powder each day, but here in the east they are less than ideal (and I remember when they were state of the art!), powder makers (extruded mesh rollers...Ginzu works much better), and Skandics (not enough track, and I need to drink more beer to be able to get enough weight on the front end to steer better (esp. with the Ginzu teeth down).(yes, we do have the suspensions tweaked, and new runners on the skis helped A LOT last year...but still....).

What are other folks thoughts?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
e2spear
Member Avatar
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
I could help steer, I tend to drink plenty of beer.
Blazer is inexpensive, and very cozy inside.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Don McMurchy
Member Avatar
Moderator candidate
[ *  *  * ]
e2spear
Jan 21 2008, 10:00 PM
I could help steer, I tend to drink plenty of beer.
Blazer is inexpensive, and very cozy inside.

I could ride shotgun and open the beers for you! I have many years of training. B)
[object Event]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DOORIDER
Member Avatar
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
Don McMurchy
Jan 22 2008, 05:48 AM
e2spear
Jan 21 2008, 10:00 PM
I could help steer, I tend to drink plenty of beer.
Blazer is inexpensive, and very cozy inside.

I could ride shotgun and open the beers for you! I have many years of training. B)

Ya just can't replace experiance!!!!
I can tag along to make sure the emptys don't go out the window.


Maybe you should put tracks on a bus :ha:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve.M
Member Avatar
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
Good idea for the thread-I found this forum looking for groomers, sleds etc.

I volunteer for a country trail system in West Central Wisconsin-20+km of hilly trails. We started with old sleds and homemade drags. I agree, Tidd Tech trail tenderizers were state of the art and we've had 4 of them, 6' hand crank, and now also a 8' hydro controlled one on a Track Truck. Now we have a 86" Ginzu (2007 model) behind a Skandic SWT.

Well, the Tidd Tech works well enough for powder, but it takes a lot of wt. to really pack because of the large surface area. That said, you can plane it off in deeper snow and still pull it. Chopping with teeth down is always hard, but usually we can get things worked up if I go over it enough. It does pull hard. If the base is hard, it takes a ton of wt on the track setters to cut in a hard track.

The Ginzu-my favorite groomer-super in chopping ice and hardpack, the teeth design works super and it doesn't clog up like the TT can. It packs the snow better, but with our 12 wide trail, you really need to make 3 passes to cover side to side, the packing pan and teeth area are really only 4-5' wide. The tracksetter ram works great and cuts a nice set of tracks evebn when snow is pretty hard. One big beef though-if we get more than 2 or 3 " of fresh snow, it'll load up and I'm stuck-seems to happen more in cold dry snow, but there is no way to plane it and all the wt is just on the compaction bed, so it'll pile up in there. The '07 model was supposed to be better that the 05 we had, but I still have problems. Even though, I do love it and now learned how to almost turn 180 degrees with the gooseneck hitch on it-pretty handy when stuck.

The SWT works well-studded track, good power and we replaced the skis with flex skis, which are great, it still can turn vaquely, but I added 25# wt on the front-just stuffed it in the bumper, and that helps.

On my home trails, I use a 88 alpine II and an old TT. We also have a Yellowstone roller, which we run over things when the snow gets deeper, it's a poly deep groved roller with a comb behind it. I'd like to have a ladder drag or something to flatten things out too.

Here is a great link from a friend hwo makes some nice grooming equipment to use on an extensive trail in NC Wisconsin (Timms Hill)- http://www.timmshilltrail.com/grooming/grooming.htm
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
couchsachraga
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
Regarding the Ginzu, I know what you mean in fresh snow. We always roll ours first (usually during a storm) to knock the air out of it, then come through the next day with the Ginzu or other implement.

As much as I like my Alpine's, as they pull better than any sled I've been on yet, nothing beats an enclosed groomer...particulaly on a cold, windy day....

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rays Lane Nordic Heaven
Newbie
[ * ]
I too have a private trail system at a cabin in NE Wisconsin. I groom 10 km or so. Typically I go to the cabin for a weekend and groom what I can get done in two hours or so.

I have a Skandic WT, and I built a knockoff of the YTS 6' roller. I saw the coregated plastic culvert in a junkyard for $20 and suddenly needed a skate lane groomer. I put an axle in it, kept centered by 2"x6" in a cross. I used to hang Goodwill weight lifting weights inside, but if I've not been there for several weeks pulling that weight up steep hills in 20" of snow is tough. I now keep the weights on the frame where I can leave them off, and on the snowcomb finisher attached to the roller. I don't have airshocks for down pressure like the YTS rollers, but I just rely on gravity.

I also have a tracksetter, and a 5' wide farm drag (a spike tooth harrow for another $20). The rear bar of the drag was removed and replaced with snowcomb. I usually only smooth with the drag if I re-groom on Saturday. I ski pretty good on undulating trails.

My previous groomer was a 1970 Yamaha SWC-433E. It had a two speed tranny with a low gear, but no reverse or electric start. Its big problem was that when I walked into a Yamaha dealer nobody behind the parts counter was as old as my snowmobile.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve.M
Member Avatar
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
I liked the line- "Nobody behind the parts counter was as old as my snomobile!"

Sometimes in deep snow (rare over the past few years) our track truck does come in handy-and the heated cab, yep, sure beats below zero sno mo grooming on our old SWT with low windshield and no working heated grips!

One thing about the yellowstone roller-those little shock things really don't do much to keep the comb down-I sometimes add wts there, Although over the years I've scattered many out on th etrails when they fall off!Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve.M
Member Avatar
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
Posted Image

Just kinda learned how to post images here-took me a while. Anyway, this is a shot of the track truck climbing one of our steep hills-does a nice job as long as you keep the RPMs up (it's a turbo diesel)-it is warm, too warm, actually, and with the 8' hydro tidd tech, handles deep snow well. I do like our 04 ski-doo SWT the most, at least for me, pullin the Ginzu just does the most pristine job of laying out cordoroy and set tracks. I also love the wings and snow scoops on the sides to pull in snow.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
javatandem
Member
[ *  * ]
we use a cushman trackster 1973 I think, and an Alpine 1980, pulling 4 and 6 foot tidd tech trail tenderizers... We also have a couple of homemade leveling drags as well as some rollers for packing the snow......watching it snow right now, we will wait till tomorrow to go out and pack and set track...we have about 12k that we groom....




south west nordic


have fun

Dave
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
couchsachraga
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
I've thought about a Cushman before, but heard they were a bit weak for pulling much of anything, and tended to break - what has your experience been?

Regarding the Track Truck, looks like a nice rig...but my "hills" are a bit steeper. If we get snow instead of the rain that's forecast later this week I'll try and get my act together to get a few images of the Alpines at work, as well as a few of the steeper hills (a few trails are so steep i wont' groom them, and leave them to snow-shoe or for expert skiers in deep snow only).

It IS amazing where a well-tuned Alpine will go, and how it can out-pull and out-float a Skandic hands down. It's too bad they don't make them anymore....the reliability and "comfort" of a Skandic compared to an Alpine I is rather noticeable...it takes a lot more work to groom with an Alpine....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Steve.M
Member Avatar
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
couchsachraga
Jan 28 2008, 07:51 PM
I've thought about a Cushman before, but heard they were a bit weak for pulling much of anything, and tended to break - what has your experience been?

Regarding the Track Truck, looks like a nice rig...but my "hills" are a bit steeper. If we get snow instead of the rain that's forecast later this week I'll try and get my act together to get a few images of the Alpines at work, as well as a few of the steeper hills (a few trails are so steep i wont' groom them, and leave them to snow-shoe or for expert skiers in deep snow only).

It IS amazing where a well-tuned Alpine will go, and how it can out-pull and out-float a Skandic hands down. It's too bad they don't make them anymore....the reliability and "comfort" of a Skandic compared to an Alpine I is rather noticeable...it takes a lot more work to groom with an Alpine....

Our trackTruck has those ice racing screws in the track-really helps climbing our hills when the base is icy or hardpack-as long as I don't force too much pressure on the cutting teeth, it'll pull up our biggest hills. If the base is too soft, then I run the opposite direction and go down them.

I agree, you get less of a "work-out" on a skandic, compared to the Alpine, but one gripe about the seated position-the seast is too low on a skandic-dang, my hips get sore-knees above your hips on a SWT is not close to the upright high position on the alpine. I hesitate to stud the track on the alpine II just because it's old and a little cracky-so in ice it spins out, but you're right-in normal snow, it floats well! Amazing how new skags help the steering too!

I'm still wondering about tracked atvs or a tracked gator or Ranger type unit-I've just head the floatation isn't equal to a SWT and ground pressure too great leaving slightly rutted surface. Someone also said the seated position makes it hard to keep checking what's going on behind you.

We had 48 degrees yesterday and it's supposed to plummet to -15 today! Should make tough grooming tomorrow!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
javatandem
Member
[ *  * ]
couchsachraga
Jan 28 2008, 07:51 PM
I've thought about a Cushman before, but heard they were a bit weak for pulling much of anything, and tended to break - what has your experience been?

Regarding the Track Truck, looks like a nice rig...but my "hills" are a bit steeper. If we get snow instead of the rain that's forecast later this week I'll try and get my act together to get a few images of the Alpines at work, as well as a few of the steeper hills (a few trails are so steep i wont' groom them, and leave them to snow-shoe or for expert skiers in deep snow only).

It IS amazing where a well-tuned Alpine will go, and how it can out-pull and out-float a Skandic hands down. It's too bad they don't make them anymore....the reliability and "comfort" of a Skandic compared to an Alpine I is rather noticeable...it takes a lot more work to groom with an Alpine....

we have had good luck with them....we did replace the old 2 stroke engine with a honda engine and that seems to have taken out most of the problems. I wish it did have a little more power and it would be nice if it were a little faster, but they do a great job on twisty trails where you cant turn the alpine very tight.

we did rip one track but we were able to get a replacement deliverd within 4 days to new mexico so there are parts out there for them.

we have a cab on ours so it makes it nicer out in the wind at nite. it is not the best machine but I dont think that there is anything out there that is the "BEST" at everything


this is a good machine for small twisty trails


headin out later this afternoon to groom! :jump: then ski
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
couchsachraga
Advanced Operator
[ *  *  * ]
I know what you mean regarding seating position. Thankfully I'm short (5'9" or so), but it's still not perfect. Mind you, unless I'm rolling I'm hardly ever sitting on the machine the "normal" way...I've groomed to long in the "Alpine" position of on one knee on the seat. Much better for throwing your weight around:) . On a packed trail I can still turn an Alpine around in an amazingly small circle (lift the inside track...)...much tighter than a Skandic. I find the Skandic MUCH warmer, though with the workout I usually get grooming it's not too much of a problem (past few years we've lost our snow on the south facing slopes, then regained it. I try and track pack it first, but I invariably get stuck and there's a bit of the old heave ho to get it going again).

Regarding the Cushman..I'll have to keep my eye out for one of those units! Theres also a "MasterTrac" on Ebay right now that looks intriguing, even if it needs a full cab (and the growsers don't look that good).

I've check out the sites both of you have referenced - nice trail systems!!

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
javatandem
Member
[ *  * ]
couchsachraga
Jan 29 2008, 07:59 PM


Regarding the Cushman..I'll have to keep my eye out for one of those units! Theres also a "MasterTrac" on Ebay right now that looks intriguing, even if it needs a full cab (and the growsers don't look that good).

I've check out the sites both of you have referenced - nice trail systems!!

well if you want I have one for sale!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Cross Country Talk · Next Topic »
Add Reply


Find more great themes at the IFSZ