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RWC15 Referees (story so far)
Topic Started: Thursday, 8. October 2015, 16:06 (1,219 Views)
RCG
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The world cup itself I think has been brilliant. The crowds alone vindicate the decisions made to host the tournament here and across the mix of grounds that were chosen - full stadia for all games and what appears to be a tremendous atmosphere around the grounds as well.

As far as the referees are concerned I would group into 3: Excellent, Doing OK, Won't go much further

In the top category I would place: Nigel Owens, Wayne Barnes, Glen Jackson and JP Doyle
Jackson has pleasantly surprised me as before this tournament I didn't think much to him but he has performed really well. Same with JP Doyle who has carried his confidence and Aviva Premiership form onto the biggest international stage. Barnes has refereed superbly and will continue to put pressure on Nigel Owens, whose big match comes this weekend.

At the Doing OK level I would place Craig Joubert, Romain Poite and Jerome Garces
Joubert was very whistle happy in his first match but seemed back to his best since, a very safe pair of hands and likely to be retained as we move forward. Poite has not excelled although I did think he had a reasonable game at Twickenham (certainly not responsible for anything that led to the result). Garces did well with Eng vs Wal but thought he was very fussy and inconsistent in Ire vs Ita. At least one of the Frenchman will get an appointment in the quarter finals.

I feel for Chris Pollock who had to fly home to attend a funeral, he had refereed OK but really suffered as the game he lost (Aus vs Fij) was well handled by Glen Jackson. Pascal Gauzerre continues to improve but has not had a game to test him (I think he has witnessed the most aggregate number of points in his matches). Johnny Lacey, whom I have spoken highly of, disappointed me. He looked well short of his best in 2 of his games. Similarly with Jaco Peyper who just didn't cope with the pressure of the opening match and even subsequently has looked a little out of his depth. And finally Clancy, with no real 'testing' games on paper he has managed OK on one and below that elsewhere -just not good enough.

On the TMO front they have definitely improved and adapted as the competition has progressed. I really like Graham Hughes, George Ayoub is heading in the right direction as is the Kiwi Ben Skeen. I do have issues with Shaun Veldsman who I find too intrusive and not always consistent.

Unless Wales continue to defy the odds and make it all the way to the final I still can't see anyone other than Nigel Owens doing the final, although Wayne Barnes has at least made sure there will be a discussion.

Final prediction: Owens, Barnes, Joubert and Hughes
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Hendo
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RCG
Thursday, 8. October 2015, 16:06
The world cup itself I think has been brilliant. The crowds alone vindicate the decisions made to host the tournament here and across the mix of grounds that were chosen - full stadia for all games and what appears to be a tremendous atmosphere around the grounds as well.

As far as the referees are concerned I would group into 3: Excellent, Doing OK, Won't go much further

In the top category I would place: Nigel Owens, Wayne Barnes, Glen Jackson and JP Doyle
Jackson has pleasantly surprised me as before this tournament I didn't think much to him but he has performed really well. Same with JP Doyle who has carried his confidence and Aviva Premiership form onto the biggest international stage. Barnes has refereed superbly and will continue to put pressure on Nigel Owens, whose big match comes this weekend.

At the Doing OK level I would place Craig Joubert, Romain Poite and Jerome Garces
Joubert was very whistle happy in his first match but seemed back to his best since, a very safe pair of hands and likely to be retained as we move forward. Poite has not excelled although I did think he had a reasonable game at Twickenham (certainly not responsible for anything that led to the result). Garces did well with Eng vs Wal but thought he was very fussy and inconsistent in Ire vs Ita. At least one of the Frenchman will get an appointment in the quarter finals.

I feel for Chris Pollock who had to fly home to attend a funeral, he had refereed OK but really suffered as the game he lost (Aus vs Fij) was well handled by Glen Jackson. Pascal Gauzerre continues to improve but has not had a game to test him (I think he has witnessed the most aggregate number of points in his matches). Johnny Lacey, whom I have spoken highly of, disappointed me. He looked well short of his best in 2 of his games. Similarly with Jaco Peyper who just didn't cope with the pressure of the opening match and even subsequently has looked a little out of his depth. And finally Clancy, with no real 'testing' games on paper he has managed OK on one and below that elsewhere -just not good enough.

On the TMO front they have definitely improved and adapted as the competition has progressed. I really like Graham Hughes, George Ayoub is heading in the right direction as is the Kiwi Ben Skeen. I do have issues with Shaun Veldsman who I find too intrusive and not always consistent.

Unless Wales continue to defy the odds and make it all the way to the final I still can't see anyone other than Nigel Owens doing the final, although Wayne Barnes has at least made sure there will be a discussion.

Final prediction: Owens, Barnes, Joubert and Hughes
Fascinating post from RCG. When I read your categories of excellent, doing ok and could do better I didn't read more before putting my own thoughts down on paper and in the main they were very similar. Great minds??

Agree Owens and BArnes have been outstanding and I would personally put Garces in that category; he can be a bit strict but you know where you stand and he doesn't tolerate prevention of quick ball.

As you say Glen Jackson has been a pleasant surprise and reffed very well.

I would have put JP Poite Lacey and Joubert in the ok category. I find Joubert a bit whistle happy to be honest and haven't found Lacey as bad as you suggest

Feel sorry too for Chris Pollock but he got good reviews for the game he did manage to ref and deserves more chances

Never been impressed much with Gauzeres, will always be in the shadow of the other 2 French officials I feel. Peyper has looked out of his depth and Clancy ...........

Have been following Jonathan Kaplans blog with interest (also known as Rate the Ref by the way). He has been fairly complimentary overall but with some issues on individual performances; he has actually been quite impressed with Clancy 😜😜!! His overall view is that Nigel Owens is in pole for the final, which most of us would agree with I am sure.

The quarters and semi appointments will be interesting with no guarantee that they will be shared evenly; I base this on the fact that Joubert got a quarter, semi and final last time on the basis of strong performances and the selection committee have said this time too will be based on merit rather than experience or reputation.
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babyref
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We can start making knockout round predictions as the results come in. Usually the specialist ARs and two of the TMOs are sent home, leaving just the twelve refs and the two TMOs.
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Hendo
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So now we know the quarter final line up, who gets the games?

Looking at the pool matches, 5 refs each got 4 games - Poite, Gauzere, Peyper, Joubert and Jackson (the latter by virtue of Pollock having to miss a game due to bereavement).

On the basis that I would hope matches would be evenly distributed, I have deliberately discounted these 5 rightly or wrongly. I think Pollock should get a game as he has been fine in the 2 games he has had. Nigel Owens and Wayne Barnes have been the 2 outstanding refs imho so far and I have. Suspicion that Garces may get a game.

So with a massive leap of faith, he goes -

South Africa v Wales - Wayne Barnes

New Zealand v France - Nigel Owens

Ireland v Argentina - Chris Pollock

Australia v Scotland - Jerome Garces

That said, they often throw in a surprise at this stage so what price Lacey or, heaven forbid, Clancy getting a game!
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Hendo
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Hendo
Sunday, 11. October 2015, 20:06
So now we know the quarter final line up, who gets the games?

Looking at the pool matches, 5 refs each got 4 games - Poite, Gauzere, Peyper, Joubert and Jackson (the latter by virtue of Pollock having to miss a game due to bereavement).

On the basis that I would hope matches would be evenly distributed, I have deliberately discounted these 5 rightly or wrongly. I think Pollock should get a game as he has been fine in the 2 games he has had. Nigel Owens and Wayne Barnes have been the 2 outstanding refs imho so far and I have. Suspicion that Garces may get a game.

So with a massive leap of faith, he goes -

South Africa v Wales - Wayne Barnes

New Zealand v France - Nigel Owens

Ireland v Argentina - Chris Pollock

Australia v Scotland - Jerome Garces

That said, they often throw in a surprise at this stage so what price Lacey or, heaven forbid, Clancy getting a game!
Should have added, another refereeing masterclass from Nigel Owens. Makes it look so easy and gets massive respect
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ex-ref
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If you wanted an outsider, what about JP Doyle? Although I would suggest it will be four of the top referees.

Why does it appear that Owens seldom has a problem refereeing a scrum? Today they were nearly all perfect and played out!
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babyref
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Bear in mind they'll probably keep two good refs back for the semis, and that they try and have a NH/SH mix. For that reason...

South Africa v Wales - Chris Pollock

New Zealand v France - Nigel Owens

Ireland v Argentina - Jerome Garces

Australia v Scotland - Romain Poite

Barnes and Joubert to be held back for the semis, with best performer of the six mentioned above getting the final (probably Owens if Wales aren't in)

Also predict Ben Skeen and Graham Hughes will be retained amongst the TMOs.
Edited by babyref, Sunday, 11. October 2015, 23:12.
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RCG
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I will go with Barnes, Owens, Joubert and Garces. Barnes to do Sa/Wal, Joubert on nz/fra, Owens on aus/sco and Garces on arg/ire
Agree that I would keep hughes and skeen as TMOs
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babyref
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Confirmed:

Wayne Barnes - RSA v Wales
Nigel Owens - NZL v France
Jerome Garces - Ireland v Arg
Craig Joubert - Aus v Scotland

Seems a sensible set of appointments, no huge surprises

Edited by babyref, Tuesday, 13. October 2015, 17:52.
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Hendo
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babyref
Tuesday, 13. October 2015, 17:52
Confirmed:

Wayne Barnes - RSA v Wales
Nigel Owens - NZL v France
Jerome Garces - Ireland v Arg
Craig Joubert - Aus v Scotland

Seems a sensible set of appointments, no huge surprises

We all seemed to get most right so great minds and no major surprises.

As far as I can see all the other 8 refs have been retained too to run the line. All 4 TMOs have a game too.
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TheThingFromLewes
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Joubert i think will be heading home after the Aus v Scotland game....
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ex-ref
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Certainly the poorest refereeing performance of the q/fs. Now being harangued in the press for sprinting off the pitch.
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babyref
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Predictions for the semis then? I'm thinking

RSA v NZL: Barnes (ref), Owens and Garces (TJs). Hughes (TMO)

ARG v AUS: Poite (ref), Pollock and Peyper (TJs). Skeen (TMO)

Final: Owens (ref), Barnes as TJ, other appointments tbc
Edited by babyref, Sunday, 18. October 2015, 19:18.
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AFAref
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babyref
Sunday, 18. October 2015, 18:40
Predictions for the semis then? I'm thinking

ARG v AUS: Poite (ref), Joubert and Peyper (TJs). Skeen (TMO)

You think Joubert will still be there? I think he's carried on running to Heathrow Airport.

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babyref
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AFAref
Sunday, 18. October 2015, 19:10
babyref
Sunday, 18. October 2015, 18:40
Predictions for the semis then? I'm thinking

ARG v AUS: Poite (ref), Joubert and Peyper (TJs). Skeen (TMO)

You think Joubert will still be there? I think he's carried on running to Heathrow Airport.

You're right - have changed to Pollock. IRB do like putting senior figures on these games though so you never know...
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Acme Thunderer
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Little so far on this thread on Craig Joubert, now if this had been a WC QF, England against Germany........ ;-)

Media are not so reticent: "Disgraceful referee costs Scots victory...rough justice hard to swallow for Scotland the brave...Joubert and controversy not strangers" (Times).

Scotland and Australia seem to have been at the opposite ends of fortune, with Scotland losing players for the match v Australia after being cited by an Australian commissioner. A need imo for some rethinking in appointments.

Last plane back to Jo'burg last night was at 9pm. :innocent:
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reflector
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Unfortunately comments such as those quoted by AT will often be seen as sour grapes but just sometimes they can be fully justified.......and I believe this is one of them.

Referees at all times should only give decisions that they are absolutely sure about but never more so in the closing seconds of a World Cup Quarter Final when the decision is almost bound to change the result. Joubert had already disadvantaged Scotland by what seemed an extremely harsh yellow card and then compounded it by his final decision. No wonder he beat such a hasty retreat. Maybe on safety grounds that wasn't such a bad idea but it will be seen by many to be an admission of an error on his part.

I'm surprised too that more wasn't made by the citing incident involving the Australian commissioner which was also bound to be seen as benefiting his home country.
Edited by reflector, Monday, 19. October 2015, 11:21.
reflector
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Hendo
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Interesting of course that the head of the referees committee is John Jeffries, ex Scottish international. Wonder what sanctions he feels like throwing at Joubert wearing his partisan hat?
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Comeonref
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In the papers today, the suggestion is that he went quickly because he sensed there may be scenes and issues on the pitch which he did not want on world TV.
I have also seen that unfortunately they have appointed Wayne Barnes to one of the semi finals. IMHO totally unjustified. Does not deserve it from his previous games and is probably only getting the appointment because he is from the Home Nation.
However two pluses . 1 He can't ref the final. And 2. At least they had the common sense to keep him away from New Zealand, who he has robbed in the past.
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Hendo
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Comeonref
Wednesday, 21. October 2015, 10:09
In the papers today, the suggestion is that he went quickly because he sensed there may be scenes and issues on the pitch which he did not want on world TV.
I have also seen that unfortunately they have appointed Wayne Barnes to one of the semi finals. IMHO totally unjustified. Does not deserve it from his previous games and is probably only getting the appointment because he is from the Home Nation.
However two pluses . 1 He can't ref the final. And 2. At least they had the common sense to keep him away from New Zealand, who he has robbed in the past.
My my my, our Welsh friend does have a downer on Mr Barnes, a view not shared by those in the know and those who matter clearly
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Comeonref
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I simply feel and have done for a long time , he is not as good as as others. I also feel as I said before he probably got the semi as he is the home nation ref and not in ability. We are all entitled to our opinions, in mine Mr Barnes is rubbish compared with others
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