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Refs and stats
Topic Started: Sunday, 20. January 2013, 20:57 (11,480 Views)
bmb
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Following on from a couple of great discussions I am stickying this post and adding to it some great stat sites that relate to various clubs and ref stats. Always an interesting topic of conversation on here but sadly the posts soon drop off of the front page along with the links! I shall add to this first post with any new links that become available so let me know if you find any!




  • Man Utd: You need to download the link from this page. You can find referees (and match stats etc.) from England or other countries. There are a number of games where the referees are missing (especially in the 70s and 80s), but it is a good source. It says it's a windows program so no good for those of us using macs! http://www.gethome.no/redstat/about.htm



*Looks to have disappeared*




From Jad - http://www.fc-dynamo.ru/champ/

This site gives match details (in Russian only!), including match officials and, in some cases, weather conditions, of all games played in the top tier of the Soviet and Russian championships.

The Hungarian Football Federations official website lists all matches with referee appointments as far back as 2004/5 and matches only for the season before, part of the site has English translation at least, not sure if the match centre does, though. https://www.mlsz.hu/dblanding
Edited by bmb, Wednesday, 21. March 2018, 12:22.
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nemesis
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bmb
Sunday, 20. January 2013, 20:57
It says it's a windows program so no good for those of us using macs! http://www.gethome.no/redstat/about.htm[/list]


Unless your mac pre-dates Apple’s transition to Intel processors in 2006, you can run Windows programs on a mac.

You'll need a couple of bits of software (Windows itself and virtualization software), so probably not worth it for that program alone!
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bmb
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nemesis
Monday, 21. January 2013, 00:58
bmb
Sunday, 20. January 2013, 20:57
It says it's a windows program so no good for those of us using macs! http://www.gethome.no/redstat/about.htm[/list]


Unless your mac pre-dates Apple’s transition to Intel processors in 2006, you can run Windows programs on a mac.

You'll need a couple of bits of software (Windows itself and virtualization software), so probably not worth it for that program alone!
I have bootcamp and I bought a copy of windows for mac when I bought the mac 2 years ago but last time I had it installed it caused all manner of problems so I removed it! Windows kept trying to boot when I was using the mac os and causing it to crash particularly when using adobe mastersuite & as I seem to spend half of my life using one mastersuite program or another it was unbearable! The only windows programs I ever need to use are word & xl and I have the mac version of them. I do have a work computer sat in the corner that's windows so I might download it onto there, I assume the PC works, I think I've used it once since the boss bought it, shuddered and refused to touch it again!

Thank you though!
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robbie_scouse
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http://www.englandstats.com/index.php
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Left Field
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Crystal Palace match and referee details for the 1970-1971 season:

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/crystal2.htm
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Acme Thunderer
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Thanks, Left Field, gosh what memories these bring back on a cold wet Monday afternoon when your team(s) are heading down the table rather than up!

Up to 35 different refs in charge of Division 1 games involving the Palace in 1970/71. That wouldn't happen nowadays on the PL, and given that there are (?) 16 refs on the PL (some or all with postcodes and/or 'home clubs'), I wonder how many different refs a PL club can expect to see in a season? 9 -10?

Some familiar names including D Smith, Burtenshaw and Finney. Surprisingly perhaps for Division 1, Jack Taylor only refereed one game involving the Palace, and that was the League Cup tie (and replay) v Rochdale, referred to recently under a separate thread. Ricky Nicholson may have arrived at Stamford Bridge in a Rolls Royce, Bill Castle missed Gerry Queen grazing his knuckles on an opponent's chin v Blackpool, and Leo Callaghan may have been the ref v Man City involving the 'Queen in brawl at Palace' incident (all referred to under a separate thread, now closed). Ron Crabb from Exeter was i/c his first Division 1 game v Huddersfield, he had a good game, pity about the result!

The Anglo-Italian Cup was refereed by 'away' refs, and Ray Tinkler took charge of our game in the San Siro, the victory being surely one of our finest moments. On the other hand, I recall Francesco Francescon being booed off the pitch at Selhurst Park, and I don't think he ever featured in any other Euro football!

Lest I forget, Messrs Mahoney and Tree were two local and well-respected refs / FL linesmen, who took charge of pre-season friendlies at Selhurst Park.

And, lest I be accused of being off-topic, can I refer contributors to other links from the Palace link, for example Ipswich in 1970/71? Hoping to see more soon.

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Left Field
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Just discovered by chance there are extremely comprehensive match details including referees for Cardiff City for the seasons 1970-1971 to 1978-1979 on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cardiff_City_F.C._seasons

If you click on a season you get brief match details; if you then click on "show" you get further details including scorers and referees for most of the matches. I'm not sure who put these details on but it's a tremendous effort and the names of some familiar and not so familiar referees are fascinating to see.
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bmb
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Left Field
Monday, 31. March 2014, 01:13
Just discovered by chance there are extremely comprehensive match details including referees for Cardiff City for the seasons 1970-1971 to 1978-1979 on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cardiff_City_F.C._seasons

If you click on a season you get brief match details; if you then click on "show" you get further details including scorers and referees for most of the matches. I'm not sure who put these details on but it's a tremendous effort and the names of some familiar and not so familiar referees are fascinating to see.
Thanks left field, I'll add that to the opening post.
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Acme Thunderer
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Thanks left field, some interesting stats which I'll have a detailed look through when I have a spare hour or two!

Picking 1975/6 at random, I note that Cardiff played at Crystal Palace on 10th April 1976. This was just a week after a late and controversial penalty award by Pat Partridge consigned Palace to a semi-final FA Cup defeat to Southampton. Cardiff won the game 1-0 with a similarly late goal, and I think it was at this point that the celebrated Malcolm Allison conceded that Palace would not be getting promotion from the old 3rd Division at the end of the season. I'm not sure whether I was there that day, but the ref was the bearded George Flint, a NCB bath manager from Kirby-in-Ashfield if my recollections are correct. The earlier fixture at Ninian Park was refereed by Derek Civil from Birmingham.
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reflector
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Yes, thanks indeed, left field.

Like Acme Thunderer, I shall return to this fascinating info in due course but a quick glance has thrown up several familiar names from an era which was probably the peak of my live football watching days. Then, of course, the only live TV game was the FA Cup Final with recorded highlights of only one game on Match of the Day and the same on ITV who showed a game from your own region on a Sunday afternoon (Star Soccer with Hugh Johns for us here in the West Midlands), live referee watching was the main way of getting to know the officials of the day.

Two immediate things strike me. One is a reminder that it was unusual to get the same official more than once in a season and very rare more than twice and the other is the larger than expected number of referees who I simply don't recall. That said I suppose it was 40 odd years ago although most of those I do remember I can picture as though it were yesterday!
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Left Field
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It's not surprising if many of these referees have faded from memory and not just due to the effect of time. There was much more turnover on the List then with it being far more common for referees to only have a few seasons on the List. Lots of referees made the step up at a late age, lost their places or dropped off for other reasons. It was also an age where far fewer matches were televised so if referees didn't turn up at your home club you would have much less chance of seeing them.
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My thanks too! I've only looked at 1970/1, but am puzzled at the name of Lyn Ashton from Ilkeston who is given as the referee of the match at Hull on 27th February 1971. A case of injury to the appointed referee perhaps?
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Left Field
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Lyn Ashton was a long-serving linesman but never a Football League referee so it would seem he had to step in at the last moment for the appointed official who was either injured or for some other reason, e.g. serious traffic problems, couldn't make the match.
Edited by Left Field, Monday, 31. March 2014, 18:04.
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Left Field
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It was mentioned a while ago, by Microscopist if I recall correctly, but this site:

MCFC Stats

is an excellent guide to statistics on Manchester City including referees for their matches. Even for those people who are not City fans it is a very useful source of reference.
Edited by Left Field, Thursday, 1. January 2015, 19:35.
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bmb
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Left Field
Thursday, 1. January 2015, 19:04
It was mentioned a while ago but this site:

MCFC Stats

is an excellent guide to statistics on Manchester City including referees for their matches. Even for those people who are not City fans it is a very useful source of reference.
Thank you. Added to the opening post. :D
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AJB95
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Here are the card stats so far for the PL refs (penalties in brackets):
(p.s. all stats give or take a couple of cards)

M Atkinson: 20 matches, 83 yellows, 3 reds (4)
M Clattenburg: 15 matches, 61 yellows, 2 reds (6) - both red cards to Man United players
M Dean: 18 matches, 78 yellows, 4 reds (2)
P. Dowd: 19 matches, 87 yellows, 4 reds (3)
R. East: 9 matches, 36 yellows, 0 reds (1)
C. Foy: 13 matches, 40 yellows, 5 reds (1) - not awarded a penalty since the opening day
K. Friend: 15 matches, 66 yellows, 2 reds (2)
M. Jones: 13 matches, 36 yellows, 2 reds (4)
R. Madley: 6 matches, 20 yellows, 0 reds (0)
A. Marriner: 10 matches, 39 yellows, 0 reds (2)
L. Mason: 15 matches, 46 yellows, 4 reds (3)
J. Moss: 18 matches, 62 yellows, 5 reds (4) - only given penalties in 1 game this season
M. Oliver: 18 matches, 70 yellows, 5 reds (7) - most penalties of SG so far
C. Pawson: 16 matches, 51 yellows, 5 reds (2)
N. Swarbrick: 15 matches, 60 yellows, 1 red (2)
A. Taylor: 19 matches, 82 yellows, 3 reds (4)

Only Robert Madley yet to point to the spot with him East and Marriner yet to give a red card. Foy, Moss and Oliver have given the most reds and Phil Dowd the most yellows. Phil Dowd (unsurprisingly) has the highest card average at 4.79, followed by Mike Dean (4.56) and Kevin Friend (4.5). Mike Jones has the lowest at 2.92 and is the only referee below 3.
12 of the 16 SG referees have a card average over 3.5 so far. (exc. Probert)
Edited by AJB95, Tuesday, 10. February 2015, 18:43.
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AJB95
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Football League stats (as of 10th Feb)

Most Games: Stephen Martin (23); Keith Hill, Graham Scott, Simon Hooper (21)
Most cautions: Keith Stroud (87); Graham Scott (75); Graham Salisbury (74); Darren Deadman, Jeremy Simpson (71); Simon Hooper (70)
Most red cards: 7 (James Adcock, Darren Deadman, James Linigton, Scott Mathieson, Jeremy Simpson)
Most penalties: Carl Boyeson, James Linington, Dean Whitestone (9); Keith Hill and Kevin Johson (8)
Andy D'Urso, Darren Handley, Fred Graham, Mick Russell yet to award a spot-kick; Andy Woolmer, Seb Stockbridge, Nigel Miller, Stephen Martin, Trevor Kettle & Fred Graham yet to give a red card.

David Webb has the lowest card average at just 2 per game. Pat Miller, Dean Whitestone, Brendan Malone and Fred Graham are the next lowest (2.13; [Graham 2.20])
David Coote has the the highest card average at 4.75, followed by Keith Stroud (4.68), Tim Robinson (4.12) Iain Williamson (4.25) and Graham Salisbury (4.05). These are the only refs above 4.
Edited by AJB95, Tuesday, 10. February 2015, 18:42.
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Ben
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Very interesting! Thanks a lot AJB95.
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BORIS10
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Lowest card average interesting.Malone,Miller and Graham have had time off for injury-fewer games to run up card giving?
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AJB95
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BORIS10
Tuesday, 10. February 2015, 19:52
Lowest card average interesting.Malone,Miller and Graham have had time off for injury-fewer games to run up card giving?
Yes, Boris10, you are correct regarding Malone and Graham. However, Miller has had 18 games so no excuse for him :red:
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BORIS10
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Many thanks AJB95.I don't keep stats any more.Perhaps Mr.Miller's control is so good he doesn't need to issue cards..........[I have never seen the gentleman in question].
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AJB95
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SG referees Football League games as of 23rd Feb (some of these I find ridiculous):

R Madley 10
R East 9
A Marriner 8
M Jones 5
L Probert 5
N Swarbrick 5
M Clattenburg 4
M Dean 4
C Foy 4
K Friend 2
L Mason 2
C Pawson 2
P Dowd 1
A Taylor 1
J Moss 0
M Oliver 0
M Atkinson 0
No ref, no game!
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Acme Thunderer
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BORIS10
Wednesday, 11. February 2015, 13:51
Many thanks AJB95.I don't keep stats any more.Perhaps Mr.Miller's control is so good he doesn't need to issue cards..........[I have never seen the gentleman in question].
Nor have a lot of people, but I saw him once at Selhurst Park where he came off sick or injured at the interval and was replaced after a considerable delay by one of the AR's (who had a good 2nd half) with an elderly gentleman (?assessor) acting as 4O. I'm frankly surprised that Pat Miller has had as many as 18 (or now more) games as he does seem injury prone. But good for him (imo) if he's managed to keep his cards in his pocket without incurring the wrath of the clubs or assessors.
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nemesis
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AJB95
Tuesday, 10. February 2015, 18:41

...Trevor Kettle ... yet to give a red card.


Must be saving it for Saturday ..... my first Kettlewatch for a while (thankfully).
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Goosey
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FL appointments by league. Hooper and Haywood have the most at 26.

CH L1 L2 TOTAL
A Davies 7 5 9 21
A D'Urso 9 6 7 22
A Haines 4 4 10 18
A Madley 11 6 4 21
A Woolmer 9 6 8 23
B Malone 4 8 9 21
C Berry 5 9 7 21
C Boyeson 7 7 8 22
C Breakspear 2 9 10 21
C Kavanagh 6 5 9 20
C Sarginson 2 9 10 21
D Bond 9 10 6 25
D Coote 6 7 3 16
D Deadman 4 10 10 24
D Drysdale 5 6 9 20
D Handley 1 6 12 19
D Sheldrake 1 10 10 21
D Webb 8 7 4 19
D Whitestone 7 8 4 19
E Ilderton 8 9 5 22
F Graham 4 3 5 12
G Eltringham 8 7 8 23
G Horwood 1 9 9 19
G Salisbury 12 8 4 24
G Scott 13 6 7 26
G Sutton 6 7 8 21
G Ward 7 8 9 24
I Williamson 3 4 4 11
J Adcock 16 5 4 25
J Linington 12 6 4 22
J Simpson 3 9 11 23
K Hill 8 8 6 22
K Johnson 1 7 12 20
K Stroud 14 9 2 25
K Wright 9 9 3 21
L Collins 2 9 8 19
M Brown 8 7 7 22
M Bull 4 8 10 22
M Haywood 13 5 8 26
M Heywood 6 7 7 20
M Russell 9 5 7 21
N Miller 11 7 5 23
O Langford 8 6 8 22
P Bankes 1 9 7 17
P Gibbs 4 5 5 14
P Miller 3 7 10 20
P Tierney 12 6 3 21
R Clark 2 8 9 19
S Attwell 11 7 5 23
S Duncan 13 7 5 25
S Hooper 16 9 1 26
S Martin 8 7 10 25
S Mathieson 1 6 5 12
S Stockbridge 2 6 11 19
T Harrington 5 7 8 20
T Kettle 4 4 6 14
T Robinson 2 8 11 21
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