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| Referee for the final | |
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| Topic Started: June 29, 2012, 9:56 am (2,010 Views) | |
| spk | June 29, 2012, 9:56 am Post #1 |
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Pedro Proenca, Portugal |
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| bmb | June 29, 2012, 4:13 pm Post #26 |
 
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Well done & good luck to Pedro Proenca. He's had a very good tournament. Disappointed Somina didn't at least get 4th official as he was excellent through out as well. I am sure he will referee the match honestly and fairly and to the best of his ability on the day as I am sure that 99% of referees do. |
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| Hendo | June 29, 2012, 8:25 pm Post #27 |
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Like most I thought it would be a toss up between Webb and Skomina and have to sat that, for me, they have been the best 2 refs in Euro 2012. However Proenca has done well too, a fantastic season for him and a great end. Good luck to him and his team It also shows up yet again the "c**k sure" posters on this site who have been assuring us that those refs with teams in the semis were being sent home etc etc. |
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| readingfan | June 29, 2012, 9:22 pm Post #28 |
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Proenca's probably been the best ref at the tournament for me; he's certainly right up there. A well deserved appointment. |
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| DTRv2 | June 30, 2012, 12:04 am Post #29 |
 
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Really incredible appointment. Good luck to him, and I hope he does well, but seriously? Ahead of Webb and Skomina who have both had far better tournaments? Webb would definitely have had it had it been Portugal vs Italy. I don't think Proenca has had a great tournament to be honest. He's missed (or more correctly, him and his team have missed) several serious cases of holding in the penalty area some proving costly for teams. Interestingly, one of the worst was by De Rossi on John Terry. I wonder if this has been pointed out to him in the video debrief and he might finally wise up to it. |
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| Whistleblower | June 30, 2012, 12:22 am Post #30 |
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The scenario of Portugal v Italy is an interesting piece of speculation. I suspect Skomina might have got that or perhaps Webb. Were it Spain v Germany then I am very confident the referee would have been Rizzoli |
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| notquitearef | June 30, 2012, 1:34 am Post #31 |
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Overall I think Proenca has been good. I kinow people say he missed the holding, but come on people...hands on heart time...how many of the refs present would have given it would have given it. Some may say Howard Webb would have based on Euro 2012, but even then, I'm not so sure. However the question that has to be asked is this..and it needs to be asked of Pierluigi Collina. How can probably the best two refs in the tournament ie Skomina and Webb go home without even getting a semi--final appointment? Skomina in particular has been exceptional...hardly put a foot wrong in three games, yet gets nothing after the quarters, and his home country did not even qualify, so there was none of the normal nationality stuff that goes on re the later stage appointments. He fully deserved the final imo and I don't buy this "he is still young" stuff at all..appointments should be awarded on merit, and how you performed at this tournament..and he was the best performing ref in the entire tournament imo. I reluctantly have to confess that Lannoy got better as the tournament progressed (let's face it..he had to!), but for him to get a semi appointmant ahead of Skomina and Webb is just unbelievable! And then for Cakir to get FO for the Final after probably his worst performance of the tournament in the Portugal v Spain semi says it all really. After the World Cup in South Africa, it felt like the refs committee had really done their job well, with the top 3 refs in the tournament getting the final big three games. This tournament, by contrast, feels very different and poses far more questions than answers, especially of the performance of Poerluigi Collina I am sad to say. That last statement will probably make me very unpopular, but as one who has never quite bought into his "godlike" status amongst the refereeing fraternity, I am willing to risk it! |
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| reflector | June 30, 2012, 8:25 am Post #32 |
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The statement doesn't make you unpopular with me, notquitearef, because I think you are right. I have always regarded Collina as the best referee of the modern era and still do but that doesn't make him the best manager of referees - far from it judging by this tournament. The two jobs, and I believe the attributes required for them, are quite different. Of the appointments for the semis and for the final, I think only Cakir's for the first semi-final was on merit (although his performance on the night turned out to be very disappointing). How far politics played a part, I don't know but it doesn't provide much of an incentive for the possible candidates if merit then doesn't come into it when it comes to the appointments for the big matches. |
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| Ref Fan | June 30, 2012, 8:28 am Post #33 |
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Notquitearef, interesting point you make at the end about Collina. My impression from reading several comments over the years is that he seemed to enjoy a wider international reputation than in his own country. Why that should be so, if true, I don't know, but perhaps there are other (current) referees of whom the same could be said. As to the appointments, I am beginning to wonder whether maybe there was a preference from early on for the Final to go to Proenca or Rizzoli providing their teams weren't involved and they didn't screw up. I also accept JAH_LFA's point that Webb's chances may well have gone when one of his team went home, although it does raise the question as to why he was retained and given a QF. You mentioned Lannoy - personally I thought his second game was his best, though not brilliant, and that there were just too many puzzling free kick decisions in the SF for me. He's been given credit for the players appearing to respect him, but to be honest I think in that regard, the players of most teams have behaved pretty well, irrespective of who the referee was. I can't help thinking that some of the decisions (not just by Lannoy) would have caused far more dissent in the PL. However, I do agree with your main point that the selection decisions for the later stages were less convincing than at WC2010. For me, the best overall performances were, not in any particular order, from Webb, Skomina and probably Proenca rather than Cakir, plus Kassai from his 2 matches. As has been mentioned, interesting to speculate what would have happened had it been a Portugal v Italy Final! Maybe the 4O appointment gives a clue, but if that were the case, why would Cakir have been given a SF rather than a QF? Anyway, let's hope it goes well for Proenca and his team on Sunday and makes for an exciting match. |
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| Ref Fan | June 30, 2012, 8:43 am Post #34 |
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Reflector, it would be interesting to know what factors do come into play with the late appointments: Performances in this tournament - by referee and his team? Experience - a "safe pair of hands"? Consistency over a longer period? Politics? Which countries got appointments in previous tournaments? Age and future prospects? I don't suppose we'll ever know and maybe it's less scientific than that - remember the WC Final that Sandor Puhl got because he'd given least yellow cards? |
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| SuffolkRef | June 30, 2012, 8:47 am Post #35 |
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To keep as many options as possible available for the final ? There was a chance of a Italy vs Portugal final. If, for example, Webb and Skomina had those matches perhaps one of the less preferred candidates would have refereed the final almost by default ? |
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| Ref Fan | June 30, 2012, 9:13 am Post #36 |
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SuffolkRef. That's a fair point, but if Webb or Skomina was Plan B if it had been Portugal v Italy, wouldn't you at least make one of them 4O for the Final if Proenca was your first choice and Portugal weren't involved? Why Cakir? |
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| Hendo | June 30, 2012, 10:41 am Post #37 |
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I feel thats a slight disservice to Puhl who was an exceptional referee, was voted World Referee of the Year 4 times running in the 1990s and got the 1998 final without doubt on merit. |
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| Ref Fan | June 30, 2012, 11:10 am Post #38 |
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"I feel thats a slight disservice to Puhl who was an exceptional referee, was voted World Referee of the Year 4 times running in the 1990s and got the 1998 final without doubt on merit" Hendo, I'm not doubting Puhl was a very good referee. I was referring to something said on this forum a while back about the 1998 WC Final when it was widely reported at that time that Peter Mikkelsen of Denmark was going to get the Final but that the appointment went instead to Puhl on the intervention of the FIFA President I think, who apparently insisted it should go to the referee who had shown the least yellow cards. I assume that was on the basis it was a choice between Mikkelsen and Puhl rather than a wider selection but I may be wrong. |
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| reflector | June 30, 2012, 11:53 am Post #39 |
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I have always felt that performances in the tournament were the key factor. If not, why should an otherwise excellent referee get an early flight home because of a blunder by one of his assistants? I agree about Puhl but I would hope that appointment to the final wasn't based on the number of cautions although, it could be true as I accept that he was regarded as a lenient referee (which of course was later to lead to his downfall). A low number of yellow cards could suggest that he was just lucky enough to have low key/easy games in the early stages. Whether he did or not, I don't know but I agree with Hendo that he was an excellent referee and I can't recall anyone suggesting that he got the Final on anything but merit. |
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| exeter_ref | June 30, 2012, 1:40 pm Post #40 |
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I think that'd be the main reason Webb didn't get appointed to the game. The struggle this year is that generally I believe the standard of refereeing at the tournament as a whole has been excellent. The candidates for the final must have been a long list and I'd imagine this appointment was thoroughly thought out. Skomina, Proenca, Webb, Thomson, Kassai (minus AAR error and AR offside mistake), Cakir have all had strong tournaments and all could have been in contention. I think Webb having refereed Spain in the WC final and having one of his A/Rs missing would have been a big call to make, especially when so many others have had good strong tournaments. The only surprise about Proenca was that in previous years, referees with teams in the semi finals have always been sent home. But as WB said earlier it's reassuring that we finally have more faith in match officials to act honestly whatever the circumstances, and I'm confident Proenca will put in a big tournament. Still, think Webb and team have done English officiating good credit during the tournament. Having already done the WC final, it'll be interesting to see who is sent to WC2014 in Brazil now. One would doubt the next final referee will be European let alone English, but will Webb be sent with his wealth of experience and talent, or will it be time for Clattenburg to shine. Clattenburg did well at the youth world cup, and I think is a very good referee. But it'd be difficult to not send Webb when he is literally in a class of his own when he performs to his best. |
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| Grahamexref | June 30, 2012, 9:12 pm Post #41 |
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I had not realised, and suspect that many other posters will not know, that Proenca is the first referee from Portugal to take charge of either the FIFA World Cup Final or the European Nations Final, now known as the UEFA Championship Final........ so many congratulations to Pedro Proenca (and, of course, his Portugese team ) !!
Edited by Grahamexref, June 30, 2012, 9:13 pm.
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| Whistleblower | July 1, 2012, 9:01 am Post #42 |
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All the very best to Proenca and his team this evening. Let's hope all the talk afterwards will be about the great football played with just a footnote as to how the officiating crew allowed it to happen by their sheer competence. It will be a touching and cosy scene chez Whistleblower tonight, albeit slightly different attractions will be drawing Mr and Mrs to settle down in front of the TV set together. |
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| johnlcoyle | July 1, 2012, 11:01 am Post #43 |
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Have to say, I thought the final was between Kassai and Webb before a ball was kicked, but well done to Proenca who had a decent tournament and is clearly highly thought of. I wish him and his team a successful evening and hope tomorrow's headlines will be about the football match. |
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| bmb | July 1, 2012, 11:31 am Post #44 |
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Agree with your sentiments. And those of Mrs Whisleblower ;) |
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| Ref Fan | July 1, 2012, 12:04 pm Post #45 |
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I can't believe that Mrs Whistleblower finds those young Italians and Spaniards even more attractive than her hubby. I'm sure you'll be able to educate her in the finer arts of football and of course refereeing! Enjoy the match. |
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| pogoref | July 1, 2012, 9:19 pm Post #46 |
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I thought it earlier in the tournament and again tonight, the way Proenca runs and some of his positioning reminds me of Lee Probert. |
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| bmb | July 1, 2012, 10:18 pm Post #47 |
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I can! He has the most beautiful smile! Sorry :$ |
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11:36 PM May 25
