Naperville North

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Naperville North; Split from 9/26
Topic Started: Sep 26 2009, 09:46 PM (3,586 Views)
xmusicx711	Sep 26 2009, 09:46 PM Post #1
Marching Band Follower Posts: 94 Group: Member Member #721 Joined: September 10, 2007	nn should not beat morton or vja [or prospect] sorry. judges=subjective



NNHSax	Sep 26 2009, 11:38 PM Post #2
Silents Posts: 169 Group: Member Member #1,472 Joined: September 27, 2008	xmusicx711 Sep 26 2009, 09:46 PM nn should not beat morton or vja [or prospect] sorry. judges=subjective How could you even say that? It's really sad how many people said that th judges at lake park were messed up. Wheeling has almost a completely new panel of judges and NN won by 2 points. Which any band fan knows is a pretty large margin. And also, the point of NN's marching band shows is to please the audience and have something that they can relate to. Our band director writes the shows himself and he tells us "were here to make the auidence laugh and love us. The awards are just the gravy on top." if you look at it logically almost everyone can relate to ou show and that's why people love it. The judges grew up watching silent movies and they can see that our general effct is so strong, strong enough for the show to bring back old memories, it's got to be well executed. How often can you relate to the chaos theory? Or the elements of life? I'm not saying those shows are bad, I liked Mortons show their sax line is a amazing, and lake park had a great show too, it's just NN has a crowd appealing show and is well executed by the band. And NN does have hard drill in their show. Maybe you were just laughing too hard at the guard to have noticed :/ congrats to all band at wheeling! It was great to see all the bands again!
	(―`'•.Έ(―`'•.Έ(―`'•.Έ THE NAPERVILLE NORTH MARCHING HUSKIESΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ07 Saxophones - School DazeΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ08 Saxophones - CoplandΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ09 Saxophones - The Sounds Of SilentsΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―)


xmusicx711	Sep 27 2009, 12:10 AM Post #3
Marching Band Follower Posts: 94 Group: Member Member #721 Joined: September 10, 2007	nnhsax- i did not see tonight's show, so i cannot say how well any band executed. i'm just going off what i saw so far. of course nn's show is a crowd pleaser. but you can please the audience and connect musically/visually with the audience/judges WITHOUT bringing back old memories. playing music well alone is enough to generate strong emotion. whether it is familiar music or not. yes, in order to know who should or should not have won tonight i would have to see how each band performed...and on wet mud grass from what i hear. (i dunno if i would say the lp final judges messed up, because the score margin wasn't that big. it was the first comp. of the year. but the outcome was sorta surprising. yes yes i know, that's over now.) i wonder how much the unfinished shows have added.



NNHSax	Sep 27 2009, 12:31 AM Post #4
Silents Posts: 169 Group: Member Member #1,472 Joined: September 27, 2008	xmusicx711 Sep 27 2009, 12:10 AM nnhsax- i did not see tonight's show, so i cannot say how well any band executed. i'm just going off what i saw so far. of course nn's show is a crowd pleaser. but you can please the audience and connect musically/visually with the audience/judges WITHOUT bringing back old memories. playing music well alone is enough to generate strong emotion. whether it is familiar music or not. yes, in order to know who should or should not have won tonight i would have to see how each band performed...and on wet mud grass from what i hear. (i dunno if i would say the lp final judges messed up, because the score margin wasn't that big. it was the first comp. of the year. but the outcome was sorta surprising. yes yes i know, that's over now.) i wonder how much the unfinished shows have added. You make it sound like NN pruposely tries to connect with the judges and then try to steal the show with some kind of inside job. Like I preiously mentioned, we like to connect with the audience. Which also includes the judges, judges are still normal people, not like celebs where we can't relate to their lives, judges grw up the same way Audience members did. We could even put a judge in the stands and no one would be able to tell! The other thig you said about connecting emotionally through music can be done but is rather hard and complex. So mAny people like so many different kind of music. Maybe jazz blues classical pep music even. Which again is hard to diversify a show withthat many genres. But seriously who can't connect to the current show NN is doing? Since our purpose is to Please The audience then I think our job is complete, the crowd loves are show. I don't wanna sound as if other schools shows don't cause they do in different ways. Some audience members are parents of band kids and may not know who Copland is, so how can they relate? Why can't a band have fun and still be a great sounding band? Why does everything have to be so serious. We can't stop the judges from connecting with what the audience connects with, that's just all part of the package. So why not kill 2 birds with one stone? Sometimes I get the impression that to some schools marching band is just concert band but moving and with hand motions. But it's not, it's a show. A show, I'm not saying everyone should be theatrical, but an occsional concept or story really can bring out the show. It's a show so please your audience! And have fun with it! Also music have you even seen our show Live?
	(―`'•.Έ(―`'•.Έ(―`'•.Έ THE NAPERVILLE NORTH MARCHING HUSKIESΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ07 Saxophones - School DazeΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ08 Saxophones - CoplandΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ09 Saxophones - The Sounds Of SilentsΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―)


robes-and-swd	Sep 27 2009, 08:15 AM Post #5
Beat up Black Scorpion Posts: 649 Group: Member Member #212 Joined: September 19, 2005	xmusicx711 Sep 26 2009, 09:46 PM nn should not beat morton or vja [or prospect] sorry. judges=subjective Ok, here's the thing about Naperville North (and not necessarily just them, but Dan Moore in general) The show is based on GE...I think that's pretty obvious. He's learned that you can win when you focus on GE. He's also learned that if you stuff your show with GE, you can ease up on marching and playing. I'm not saying they don't play well or move well...they just don't have to do harder music and harder drill because Dan knows that he's going to get his GE from the extraneous stuff that's happening on the field. In fact, if they were playing harder music and harder drill, it would probably take away GE because it would take away from the focus on the play or little scene that's usually going on somewhere on the field. So that's why you see the show with tons of halts and only 58 sets. I think the problem most people have with NN is that most feel that's the "easy way out" when it comes to GE. It's cute...it's funny...it makes the audience laugh or say "aww, that's cute", but it's usually just kinda gimmicky. It's sometimes creative, and you gotta give the kids major props for pulling it off and being effective, but it's a lot harder to get tons of GE through shows that focus on the music and the movement. The Marching....and the Band part of marching band. To give a simile, I could make you laugh two different ways....one could be in a detailed and elaborate comedy standup routine, or I could just stand there and make fart noises with my armpit. You'll probably laugh at both, but most people would appreciate the standup routine more than the latter. NN is not breaking the rules. They practice and work very hard. But the above reason is why most people in Illinois don't really respect NN very much. They feel that they take the easy way out. And this also explains why NN does well at Chicago shows that have relatively the same panels show to show (and ISU of recent years), but then get blown away at BOA shows. BOA judges see so many well constructed shows that grab you through brilliant music , movement construction, and drill, and NN comes along and the judges are like "this is clown shoes." BOA judges expect the detailed and well constructed comedy routine...not the fart noises. This isn't meant as a slam on the students in NN's band in any way. They do what they do very well, and have success doing it. The format of their shows are determined (or recycled) by their director, not them. And I bet that there are some kids in their band that would really like to do a more serious and sophisticated show. The best way to look at this is that it's a perfect example of how marching band and judging of shows is a truly subjective activity, and how there is more than one way to interpret what marching band shows should be like.



fluttieatheartx3	Sep 27 2009, 10:23 AM Post #6
Member Posts: 32 Group: Member Member #2,018 Joined: May 4, 2009	robes-and-swd Sep 27 2009, 08:15 AM xmusicx711 Sep 26 2009, 09:46 PM nn should not beat morton or vja [or prospect] sorry. judges=subjective Ok, here's the thing about Naperville North (and not necessarily just them, but Dan Moore in general) The show is based on GE...I think that's pretty obvious. He's learned that you can win when you focus on GE. He's also learned that if you stuff your show with GE, you can ease up on marching and playing. I'm not saying they don't play well or move well...they just don't have to do harder music and harder drill because Dan knows that he's going to get his GE from the extraneous stuff that's happening on the field. In fact, if they were playing harder music and harder drill, it would probably take away GE because it would take away from the focus on the play or little scene that's usually going on somewhere on the field. So that's why you see the show with tons of halts and only 58 sets. I think the problem most people have with NN is that most feel that's the "easy way out" when it comes to GE. It's cute...it's funny...it makes the audience laugh or say "aww, that's cute", but it's usually just kinda gimmicky. It's sometimes creative, and you gotta give the kids major props for pulling it off and being effective, but it's a lot harder to get tons of GE through shows that focus on the music and the movement. The Marching....and the Band part of marching band. To give a simile, I could make you laugh two different ways....one could be in a detailed and elaborate comedy standup routine, or I could just stand there and make fart noises with my armpit. You'll probably laugh at both, but most people would appreciate the standup routine more than the latter. NN is not breaking the rules. They practice and work very hard. But the above reason is why most people in Illinois don't really respect NN very much. They feel that they take the easy way out. And this also explains why NN does well at Chicago shows that have relatively the same panels show to show (and ISU of recent years), but then get blown away at BOA shows. BOA judges see so many well constructed shows that grab you through brilliant music , movement construction, and drill, and NN comes along and the judges are like "this is clown shoes." BOA judges expect the detailed and well constructed comedy routine...not the fart noises. This isn't meant as a slam on the students in NN's band in any way. They do what they do very well, and have success doing it. The format of their shows are determined (or recycled) by their director, not them. And I bet that there are some kids in their band that would really like to do a more serious and sophisticated show. The best way to look at this is that it's a perfect example of how marching band and judging of shows is a truly subjective activity, and how there is more than one way to interpret what marching band shows should be like. I completely agree with what Tuba Deus has just responded. Yes, we do GE stuffed shows. That is Mr. Moore's style. There is absolutely nothing that we as a band can do about it. He doesnt really take our suggestions into play when writing the show. I find it really insulting when people say that we "didn't deserve to win" (actually thats just plain rude, saying it to ANY band). Sometimes, I agree. I feel that other bands do better shows than we do, but GE (or at least what I can tell of it), a lot of it is HOW the show is written. Is it written so when the music is played, it sounds good? Is the drill written well? And since Mr. Moore writes our whole show, thats all on him. Personally, and please no one take this the wrong way, I feel that judges do sometimes judge bands with a bias if they like the band's show or not. It comes with the whole overall package performance type thing. If a band performs a really good but boring show, as opposed to a show performed equally well and really excited and engaging, who do you think will get the better score? Obviously thats not supposed to happen, but judging is subjective.
	~~~NNHS MaRCHiNG HUSKieS~~~ ..2oo6 Flutties :: Around the World in 10 Minutes.. .................2oo7 Flutties :: School Daze................. ..................2oo8 Drum major :: Copland................. .......2oo9 Drum major :: The Sounds of Silents...... Silence.... your seniors are here SENIORS 2010 <33


robes-and-swd	Sep 27 2009, 11:24 AM Post #7
Beat up Black Scorpion Posts: 649 Group: Member Member #212 Joined: September 19, 2005	Quote: Yes we do cute and fun shows, yes we take advantage of the scoring system by focusing on GE, but people have been too distracted by the show part of our performance to realize that we can actually play our instruments (we won music execution in class 6A at ISU last year) and, this year at least, we can actually march (our visual execution finally came close to matching our music at lp). Like I said, nobody's arguing that NN isn't generally clean. Your stuff is generally a lot easier, so it's clean earlier. When other bands clean up (because their shows are harder), that's when you get passed up. Quote: You can't compare our style of show to the styles of bands like Marian or Morton; we are polar opposites. So instead of complaining about how we place better than we should or how judges are too subjective, sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. We'd prefer crowd appeal over some shiny dust collectors any day. Well, that's not necessarily true...it is the judge's job to try to compare your styles. And you need to realize that if when you do gimmicky shows, that you're going to get people that don't respect that. While I respect the amount of work that you put into the activity, I'm one of the people in the stands that would prefer to see an actual marching band show as opposed to you guys' style. But like I said before, to each their own.



NNHSax	Sep 27 2009, 11:41 AM Post #8
Silents Posts: 169 Group: Member Member #1,472 Joined: September 27, 2008	robes-and-swd Sep 27 2009, 11:24 AM Quote: Yes we do cute and fun shows, yes we take advantage of the scoring system by focusing on GE, but people have been too distracted by the show part of our performance to realize that we can actually play our instruments (we won music execution in class 6A at ISU last year) and, this year at least, we can actually march (our visual execution finally came close to matching our music at lp). Like I said, nobody's arguing that NN isn't generally clean. Your stuff is generally a lot easier, so it's clean earlier. When other bands clean up (because their shows are harder), that's when you get passed up. Quote: You can't compare our style of show to the styles of bands like Marian or Morton; we are polar opposites. So instead of complaining about how we place better than we should or how judges are too subjective, sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. We'd prefer crowd appeal over some shiny dust collectors any day. Well, that's not necessarily true...it is the judge's job to try to compare your styles. And you need to realize that if when you do gimmicky shows, that you're going to get people that don't respect that. While I respect the amount of work that you put into the activity, I'm one of the people in the stands that would prefer to see an actual marching band show as opposed to you guys' style. But like I said before, to each their own. To the top quote, we certainlydo some hard stuff. One of the judges kinda said that to us after LP. The response was " you wouldn't know cause your not on the field with us." we do work alot in minor details. To your second quote. Mr. Moore is a thick skinned man. He spent most of his DCI years with a corps that I dint think even placed above 10th ever.. (genseo knights). To tell you the truth, he knows some people don't respect our style of music. But he knows that the audience LIKES the show show. Who doesn't laugh when you watched our show? He wants the audiences enjoyment. I bet he wouldn't really care if we played our best show and the audience loved t but we ended up last, he probably wouldn't really care, us students will, but he would know inside the truth. Like I said before the awards and placing is just the gravy on top. And this is just my thinking of Mr. Moore's thinking, based on what he tells us.
	(―`'•.Έ(―`'•.Έ(―`'•.Έ THE NAPERVILLE NORTH MARCHING HUSKIESΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ07 Saxophones - School DazeΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ08 Saxophones - CoplandΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ09 Saxophones - The Sounds Of SilentsΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―)


robes-and-swd	Sep 27 2009, 11:50 AM Post #9
Beat up Black Scorpion Posts: 649 Group: Member Member #212 Joined: September 19, 2005	Quote: can we move away from Naperville North and their fun shows now that we know the perspective from like, every single degree Nobody's forcing you to read our discussion. Quote: To tell you the truth, he knows some people don't respect our style of music. But he knows that the audience LIKES the show show. Who doesn't laugh when you watched our show? He wants the audiences enjoyment. I bet he wouldn't really care if we played our best show and the audience loved t but we ended up last, he probably wouldn't really care, us students will, but he would know inside the truth. Like I said before the awards and placing is just the gravy on top. And this is just my thinking of Mr. Moore's thinking, based on what he tells us. That's definately the right attitude to have about it. The most important thing is knowing that you busted your rear and had a great experience!



Altotus	Sep 27 2009, 12:11 PM Post #10
Posts: 131 Group: Moderator Member #820 Joined: October 16, 2007	Sorry that took so long. Here we can discuss NN until the apocalypse. Please keep posts classy!
	Ilmarching Fantasy Football 2009 - http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/ilmarchingfootball Password: 12345 “Leaders must invoke an alchemy of great vision.” - Henry Kissinger AXΣ President of the Gordon Beckham fan club


NNHSax	Sep 27 2009, 12:16 PM Post #11
Silents Posts: 169 Group: Member Member #1,472 Joined: September 27, 2008	robes-and-swd Sep 27 2009, 11:50 AM Quote: can we move away from Naperville North and their fun shows now that we know the perspective from like, every single degree Nobody's forcing you to read our discussion. Quote: To tell you the truth, he knows some people don't respect our style of music. But he knows that the audience LIKES the show show. Who doesn't laugh when you watched our show? He wants the audiences enjoyment. I bet he wouldn't really care if we played our best show and the audience loved t but we ended up last, he probably wouldn't really care, us students will, but he would know inside the truth. Like I said before the awards and placing is just the gravy on top. And this is just my thinking of Mr. Moore's thinking, based on what he tells us. That's definately the right attitude to have about it. The most important thing is knowing that you busted your rear and had a great experience! Your sarcasm isn't needed. And winning isn't everything.
	(―`'•.Έ(―`'•.Έ(―`'•.Έ THE NAPERVILLE NORTH MARCHING HUSKIESΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ07 Saxophones - School DazeΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ08 Saxophones - CoplandΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―) (―`'•.Έ(―`'•.ΈΊ09 Saxophones - The Sounds Of SilentsΈ.•'΄―)Έ.•'΄―)


fluttieatheartx3	Sep 27 2009, 12:21 PM Post #12
Member Posts: 32 Group: Member Member #2,018 Joined: May 4, 2009	No, winning isn't everything but who DOESNT like to win. come on.
	~~~NNHS MaRCHiNG HUSKieS~~~ ..2oo6 Flutties :: Around the World in 10 Minutes.. .................2oo7 Flutties :: School Daze................. ..................2oo8 Drum major :: Copland................. .......2oo9 Drum major :: The Sounds of Silents...... Silence.... your seniors are here SENIORS 2010 <33


robes-and-swd	Sep 27 2009, 01:15 PM Post #13
Beat up Black Scorpion Posts: 649 Group: Member Member #212 Joined: September 19, 2005	NNHSax Sep 27 2009, 12:16 PM robes-and-swd Sep 27 2009, 11:50 AM Quote: can we move away from Naperville North and their fun shows now that we know the perspective from like, every single degree Nobody's forcing you to read our discussion. Quote: To tell you the truth, he knows some people don't respect our style of music. But he knows that the audience LIKES the show show. Who doesn't laugh when you watched our show? He wants the audiences enjoyment. I bet he wouldn't really care if we played our best show and the audience loved t but we ended up last, he probably wouldn't really care, us students will, but he would know inside the truth. Like I said before the awards and placing is just the gravy on top. And this is just my thinking of Mr. Moore's thinking, based on what he tells us. That's definately the right attitude to have about it. The most important thing is knowing that you busted your rear and had a great experience! Your sarcasm isn't needed. And winning isn't everything. I wasn't being sarcastic, nor did I suggest that winning was everything. I was agreeing with you.



Lucio	Sep 27 2009, 06:23 PM Post #14
ランナーズ・ハイ Posts: 50 Group: Member Member #1,344 Joined: August 12, 2008	Oh my oh my, this argument has been a long time coming... I don't think anyone is in this activity for trophies. Trophies are cool, but what do they do? They go on the table with the other 50000000 that have accumulated in the band room since the 19th century. I personally think that kids do marching band for the sense of moving forward. Even a tiny, slow crawl up through the ranks, slowly overcoming tiers of bands that used to whomp on you, year by year, is enough to make you smile when you graduate. So I'm kind of offended by the insinuation that Morton and Marian are in it for "shiny dust collectors." Morton is in it, no doubt, for that sense of progress; look at how far they've come since the start of the decade. And Marian pushes the envelope every year to try and maintain its tradition of excellence. I'm sure that "shiny dust collectors" drove every kid and director at morton to leap to 7th place in finals in 2005, or has motivated marian to win their class for almost 30 years at ISU, not to mention 7 Grand Nationals titles. What do you take these bands for, leprechauns? They aren't after shiny gold cups and plaques. They aren't sitting in their band rooms, rubbing their hands together and planning where they'll put their next trophy rack. The best award you can get from marching band is personal satisfaction. Whether that comes through simply knowing you had a great performance, or by doubling your scores in the course of your high school career, or by just knowing you left the band better than when you entered, it's always worth so much more than a trophy. Now, a personal note about NN. Let me start by saying that I'm sure you work hard, and you feel good by then end of the season because of what you've accomplished. But to me, here's what it seems it would feel like to be beaten by a show like NN's: Your teacher assigns your class a powerpoint presentation that is due in a month. The first night you can, you dive into research, fact-checking, paraphrasing, getting all of the information as concise and accurate as possible. Then you put together your powerpoint, making a custom layout and theme that's highly relevant to your topic. You work day and night to make your presentation beautiful and informative. And when its done, you smile because you have something that's yours, that you put hard work into and which you feel positive will get a good grade. So you show your presentation in on the due date, and the class is clearly impressed by the work you put into your assignment. Then, a classmate of yours gives his presentation. It is made entirely from a pre-made template. Animated GIF's and wacky fonts express the information that he found. It is not exceptionally well researched. It gets the point across, and its clean, but you really feel that he hasn't been busting his buns like you have to make it. But the class giggles at his presentation, and smiles giddily as they file out of the classroom. The next day, grades for the project are handed out. Your classmate got a better grade than you, because he incited more of an audience response. Despite all your attention to detail and focus on making something professional, he has beaten you. The sense of futility is overwhelming. Why bother working to be professional when cute can get you farther, and is so much easier? Now imagine this scenario playing out for the entirety of your high school career. That's what it seems to me getting beaten by NN is like. I guess that can all be summed up as "they're taking the easy way out." Not against the rules, but maddening to competitors who emulate corps to look professional. This is just my opinion. I'm sorry I got so long-winded. Congrats to NN and all bands at Chicagoland yesterday! I'm looking forward to the rest of the season
	godspeed all the bakers at dawn may they all cut their thumbs and bleed into their buns till they melt away.


Travis Bickle	Sep 27 2009, 08:17 PM Post #15
Alpha Posts: 73 Group: Member Member #1,125 Joined: May 29, 2008	that ISU "shiny dust collector" was pretty cool. I agree with Lucio about the whole "you march for the fun, challenge, for your comrades, not the trophies" idea. My freshmen year, we didn't win any Grand Champs or anything and I still had the time of my life. As for NN, I do think they have found a niche that has them in the position to win competitions up to and including ISU. Morton has a different niche that may be, and I emphasize may be, more difficult on the individual, but that can't be proven unless you're lucky enough to march for both schools. Maybe Morton's niche isn't as popular to some judges as NN's, but in the end, the trophies don't matter. But that was a crazy original analogy Lucio Edited by Travis Bickle, Sep 27 2009, 08:19 PM.
	Yeah, Kanye can't spell Anasazi so.....yeah


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