Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Search Members Calendar FAQ General Forum Guidelines Portal
  • >
  • Kismet's Gamer Gathering: A Place for Roleplayers
  • →
  • Gaming
  • →
  • Running the Game
  • →
  • Plot and Feedback
{Add Reply}
Plot and Feedback; Someone kill my players. Please.
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 25 2008, 08:03 PM (177 Views)
HollowDes Jan 25 2008, 08:03 PM Post #1
Big Koala
Posts:
283
Group:
The Council
Member
#12
Joined:
August 19, 2005
I saw the thread about player goals, and it prompted me about an issue I'm having right now. Not so much with goals, but more generally, player feedback, are driving me crazy right now.

I'm trying to teach a few new friends how to play, and we've run a couple one-shot adventures to warm up, but I can't seem to get them to tell me what kind of game they want.

I'd like to get into some plot, but I have no idea how to approach it.

In my mind, there's only ever been two ways to go about a plot:

1) Mostly linear, you bait the players and write adventures ahead of them to have material prepared. This comes with lots of assumptions and can often lead to railroading. Despite these glaring drawbacks, this has been the only kind of plot I've ever been able to run because my players are always newbies who "just want to play."

In other words, the plot comes and finds them. They just sit back and roll dice. These kinds of plots usually start in a wilderness area where there's a dungeon nearby waiting to happen.

2) Mostly non-linear, this would be where the players have to go find the plot for themselves. There would actually be several smaller plots eventually feeding into a bigger one like rivers into a delta.

A plot like this would start in an urban setting where playing is more open-ended by nature anyway. They would learn some names, some faces, nothing would be too apparent at first, and then once they asked the wrong (or right) question or found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time, they suddenly have decisions to make.

This kind of plot seems more suited to more experienced players, and I think is generally how D&D was envisioned.

But, in order for open-ended play like this to work, the players have to have goals of some kind, and I just can't get any straight answers out of my players.

Also, they just hit level 2, and I haven't forced any of them to sit down and come up with a background because they just wanted to "hurry up and play." So now that we've done two, randomly unrelated dungeons, what the fuck do I do with them? Only one of them roleplays and I don't really see any personality coming out yet, so I have no clue what to do with them.

I could just go the linear route, as I have before, but I'd hate to drag them along on a plot they don't like and "wasted time" preparing material.

I don't know why I do this to myself sometimes. Not a single one of them owns a player's handbook, or seems interested in teaching themselves the rules, I do this all for them. And yet, they say they want to play and show lots of enthusiasm. We have fun when we play, but it's so much work for me to come up with everything.

I'm a glutton for punishment I guess.
Sleep...oh, how I loathe those little slices of death. - Longfellow
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
kismetrose Jan 25 2008, 08:20 PM Post #2
Member Avatar

Admin
Posts:
3,205
Group:
Admin
Member
#1
Joined:
February 6, 2005
Quote:
 
I'm trying to teach a few new friends how to play, and we've run a couple one-shot adventures to warm up, but I can't seem to get them to tell me what kind of game they want.

If they're new to the game, they might not know what sort of game they want. If they haven't run before, then they definitely don't know the difficulties involved in trying to come up with stuff for characters to do that the players will enjoy. It might seem like players are being ungrateful, but a lot of them don't know how much work it can take or how much it means to a DM for people to show up and be involved.

If you really want them to do some kind of character background, there are two things that you might try. You can come up with a quick questionnaire asking them to fill in brief questions to give you a place to start. You could also trying doing backgrounds kind of the way that Stargate does. There are a number of backgrounds to choose from, and you have a max you can take. But each time you face a background through play (say you come into contact with that enemy you made), you get extra experience for dealing with it.

As for plots, I'd say try a mixed bag. Mix the linear with some opportunities for nonlinear plots. Set up some different scenarios and then leave some more choices up to them. But try it out slowly so that they can catch on.
Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
HollowDes Feb 5 2008, 07:33 PM Post #3
Big Koala
Posts:
283
Group:
The Council
Member
#12
Joined:
August 19, 2005
Sorry for the slow response to this, I do always appreciate and read your responses, kismet.

Quote:
 
You can come up with a quick questionnaire asking them to fill in brief questions to give you a place to start.


This is actually what I've done a few times in the past, the questionnaire itself going through several revisions. It has met with some mild success, but never quite satisfied me as far as the information I was trying to get out of the players. When I read your suggestion, my initial reaction was, "Yeah yeah, been there, done that. But why hasn't it worked?"

That was just the spark I needed. I realized there was nothing wrong with the answers my players gave. I went back and read some of the sheets, and the players answered the questions to the best of their ability. The problem was in the questions; I was asking the wrong ones. I was trying to get players to see their characters as more than just a stat sheet, so was asking questions like, "What makes your character angry? What is your character afraid of?" At the end, I would add, "What motivates your character?" and "List one or two goals." But this was still missing the mark to get the meat of their background.

Then it struck me. What's the biggest difference between an NPC and a PC? Class levels. Duh! To explain how they got their class training and why they became an adventurer instead of a laborer or craftsman like the rest of the world are the two key pieces of information I was trying to get this entire time.

So to start off our attempt at the Age of Worms Adventure Path, I ended up with four final questions for the players to answer:

Where is your character from?

This is basically asking where their characters call home, not necessarily their birth place.

How did you become an adventurer?

Looking for details about how a character received his or her specialized training.

Why did you become an adventurer?

This answer should explain why their character took up the life-threatening, unpredictable, and sometimes thankless calling of an adventurer.

Why is your character in Diamond Lake (the opening scene for the campaign)?

This question should be easily answered after the last one and after reading the information provided about Diamond Lake.

Provided with this questionnaire is a write-up I'm doing to introduce Diamond Lake and the setting this adventure takes place in. I'll basically be handing my newbie players a packet full of information and instructions on how to have a complete background that sets them in the world.

What do you think?

As far as feedback and player motivations, you hit it on the head:

Quote:
 
If they're new to the game, they might not know what sort of game they want. If they haven't run before, then they definitely don't know the difficulties involved in trying to come up with stuff for characters to do that the players will enjoy.


Based on what little feedback I have gotten, they just want to play and will have no problem "playing into the game." They're all hardcore, veteran MMORPG players, so they're pretty easy to "hook" and I'm not too worried about them straying from the adventure path. I really fell in love with the whole concept of Diamond Lake and I'm very pleased with the products I've bought so far, and I think my players will like how dark and gritty the story is. For $4 a pop instantly available at my fingertips? Definitely worth it.
Sleep...oh, how I loathe those little slices of death. - Longfellow
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
kismetrose Feb 6 2008, 01:27 AM Post #4
Member Avatar

Admin
Posts:
3,205
Group:
Admin
Member
#1
Joined:
February 6, 2005
Quote:
 
Sorry for the slow response to this, I do always appreciate and read your responses, kismet.

Hey, it's cool. We've all got lives that need tending; I'm just glad when you drop on by. :)
Quote:
 
I realized there was nothing wrong with the answers my players gave. I went back and read some of the sheets, and the players answered the questions to the best of their ability. The problem was in the questions; I was asking the wrong ones. I was trying to get players to see their characters as more than just a stat sheet, so was asking questions like, "What makes your character angry? What is your character afraid of?" At the end, I would add, "What motivates your character?" and "List one or two goals." But this was still missing the mark to get the meat of their background.

I know how easy it can be to phrase a question wrong, or ask a question that doesn't really give you the input you want. I took a course in sex research once that was fascinating, particularly when it came time for us to design questionnaires. The questions had to be easily understood, they had to ask for particular information, and they had to be worded to try to avoid offense. It was a lot more difficult than I ever thought it would be. I've also gotten together with other TAs to come up with good essay questions, and that can be a lot harder than it seems, as well.

I think the questions you came up with can be helpful, so long as you can do something with the answers they give. For instance, what do you hope to do with their birthplace info? Are you thinking there might be cultural differences to emphasize? If they tell you they started adventuring for the money, how will that help you better design or understand the campaign?
Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Register for Free
« Previous Topic · Running the Game · Next Topic »
{Add Reply}

Track Topic · E-mail Topic Time: 1:25 AM Jul 11
Scroll and Ink theme created by Canimia of Zathyus Networks Resources
Hosted for free by ZetaBoards · Privacy Policy