Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Search Members Calendar FAQ General Forum Guidelines Portal
  • >
  • Kismet's Gamer Gathering: A Place for Roleplayers
  • →
  • Gaming
  • →
  • Running the Game
  • →
  • Technology and Magic
{Add Reply}
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
Technology and Magic; Opinions needed!
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 23 2007, 04:04 PM (623 Views)
HollowDes Oct 23 2007, 04:04 PM Post #1
Big Koala
Posts:
283
Group:
The Council
Member
#12
Joined:
August 19, 2005
If you couldn't tell by my absence, I set D&D down for awhile. Decided to pick it back up, and thought I'd start by fielding a discussion I've wondered about quite a bit in the past. I've seen a few arguments here and there about this, but have yet to find a satisfactory discussion of it.

What's your opinion about magic and technology?

I've seen most argue that magic does not replace technology, that they are two different things and they progress independently.

Others have said that magic MUST replace technology, otherwise, how could some legends date back thousands of years, yet the world is still lacking in most modern conveniences? It really stretches the versimilitude for some players to relate to people who have a well-established culture but no apparent science in place.

I got to thinking about this, and was doing some more research on the Medieval Era to try to capture some of that realism and grittiness in my next town, and forgot a number of important points about the time period which aren't addressed in D&D:

* People were very UNeducated, maybe 1 in 100 people could read, if that
* Medieval people had no concept of "germs" or "bacteria", so disease was common and widespread
* The average person was a peasant, and a peasant is poorer than most can imagine and lived in absolutely squallied conditions
* Most houses did not have windows or front doors
* No personal wealth, no furniture, no "wardrobes" and almost no free-time
* Fun was defined by a lack of work, and festivals and feasts were the most fun a peasant could look forward to

Then I got to thinking about why some of this never appears in D&D. Well for one, it's a fantasy game, and no one wants a mechanic for doing chores, going to the bathroom and all the other mundane stuff that made life miserable. Then I realized that within the mechanics themselves, there exists something unique that has never existed, let alone in Medieval Europe: magic!

In the D&D world, anyone with access to even 0-level cleric magic can: Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, Light, Guidance, Mending and Purify Food and Drink.

Imagine how many problems just those small set of spells could have solved if they were available to priests in the Middle Ages! Even if they existed today, they would be hugely useful to humanity. How can anyone argue that any society aware of the availability of these spells would not utilize them?

So they don't have refrigeration, but they have ice spells! They may not have lasers and special effects, but they have prestidigitation and audible glammer. They may not have lie detectors and forensic science, but they have even better with zone of truth! They may not have medicine, but they have spells that instantly cure disease.

Speaking of which, how much different would law enforcement and politics be with spells like zone of truth and augury?

It's very hard for me to imagine any society existing in D&D without utilizing and integrating this magic into every day life. Only in a very low-magic, gritty campaign where magic is scarce and known only by a few could I see an argument for this.

All of this has prompted me to design a church/religion where that has been realized, and becomes the "salvation army" of the world where they set-up shop with local authorities and provide civil servants to employ clerical magic through daily operations.

The Red Wizards of Thay in Faerun are like this, but they're the arcane piece. Like someone said (kismet I think), they're like the Wal-mart of D&D! They try to make magic goods and services available all around the world, like magic for dummies. Why wouldn't benign, self-righteous clerics do the same thing? It could become an entire vocation which provides employment for the population. You come of age, go off and join the "Salvation Army of Clericdom", put in your "boot camp" time, get a career, work a 9 to 5, get a steady pay, and help society all in one. The organization would be funded by donations and tithes paid by the local authorities in return for making their community cleaner and safer.

Finally, with ressurections, the rich would rarely stay dead. If high-level clerics can ressurect rich people and collect huge amounts of gold for that service, why wouldn't they?

Anyone else ever have thoughts like this, or notice the usefulness of magic in a world and wonder?
Sleep...oh, how I loathe those little slices of death. - Longfellow
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
kismetrose Oct 24 2007, 01:24 AM Post #2
Member Avatar

Admin
Posts:
3,205
Group:
Admin
Member
#1
Joined:
February 6, 2005
Quote:
 
If you couldn't tell by my absence, I set D&D down for awhile.

You were missed. :)

I regularly switch games for various reasons. If I stick with one game too long, I start to get burned out on it. I also get the urge to play other games. On top of that, I tend to need short breaks so that I can focus on school. So I understand about putting D&D aside for a while.
Quote:
 
What's your opinion about magic and technology?

I think that both things need to be placed in context and in perspective.

First, technology and magic are both bound to be unevenly distributed and varied in nature across most worlds. Different technologies have been developed to meet needs that regions might not share; before modern communications systems, places were more isolated from one another and technologies were slow to spread. So I imagine that some regions might excel in particular kinds of technology (or magic).

And I imagine that there would be plenty of areas in which technology is less fancy and magic less abundant. Why? Resources, supply, demand, and the desire to profit. Advanced magic and technology tend to be expensive, and even clerics want to profit, if only to strengthen the church of their faith. A lot of people flat out cannot afford the rates, so they get by as best they can and buy the cheap stuff if they're able.

You also have to think about how many magic users there are in a given area. Too few, and prices are probably kept high. Even too many casters might not bring prices down, if they protect themselves by forming a guild. And there are only so many casters to go around. Priests have always been greatly outnumbered by their parishioners, so a few clerics would only be able to save some people from widespread plague, serious drought, and the like.

Larger efforts of sustained magic require more resources than many societies have to spend. Sure, you can use ice spells to mimic refrigeration, but you'll probably have to make costly magic items that cast such spells regularly for the food to stay cold enough. So I'd say that most societies choose which spells are most useful to fund, but that a lot of magic use happens in the private sector, for wealthier patrons.

Keep in mind that in the Forgotten Realms, some of the greatest historical empires used magic all over the place. If you read the 2nd ed product on Cormanthyr, the empire of the elves, you'll get a detailed description of the magic that was embedded into the city for public purposes. One moral to Netheril's downfall was: Don't rely on floating cities and tons of magic for every damned thing when magic can fail. The books are cautious about societies that use lots of magic in their everyday lives because there have been so many misuses. Have a look at entries on Halruaa. And think about the ways that magic might go as wrong as Chernobyl.

A group like the one that you're describing would probably have better luck establishing itself in larger cities with more money to spend. You'll have to decide how big you want that group to be. It's one thing for a church of Ilmater to work in that way, and another thing for all churches of Ilmater to do so.

That's all I've got at the moment, but I'll mull it over some more!
Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
Fenris Wulf Oct 24 2007, 12:10 PM Post #3
Member Avatar
Ritual Partaker
Posts:
162
Group:
The Council
Member
#161
Joined:
September 25, 2007
While I'm also mulling over your question so I can give my own twisted perspective on it, I would like to take a moment to add to your assembly-line magic, from a friend of mine I used to game with.

In his world, everybody who was rich could be beautiful, because his world had an advanced form of plastic surgery.

First, they cast a Flesh to Stone spell.
Then, a Stone to Mud spell.
Then the artistically inclined changed whatever you wanted (sculpting the now soft mud).
Then Mud to Stone spell.
Then Stone to Flesh spell.

And, viola!, as beautiful as you want to be!

(Also great for giving yourself Elf features, etc., if you needed to sneak into an Elf city and steal their Cloaking Device of Elvenkind, etc.). :lol:
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
Redisbest Oct 25 2007, 03:20 AM Post #4
Member Avatar
Habitual Offender
Posts:
78
Group:
The Council
Member
#54
Joined:
February 25, 2006
It might be worthwhile to consider who is actually doing the technological research in the magical world. I see the brightest minds choosing, or being recruited, to work as wizards since they're paths seem similar to our scientists'. So if the people who would have otherwise been discovering germs, researching refrigeration, etc are mostly employed with magic, then those vital technological fields would be a bit neglected.

So you can have all the grit and disease you want since most of the common folks might not be able to benefit from clerical charity except in extreme circumstances. If you want to be super realistic, you can look at what inventions came from the educated, and which were great ideas from common people. For instance, in such a world, we might not have microscopes, but we could have a cotton gin. (I know Eli Whitney was rich and educated, but there was a precursor in India, according to Wikipedia).

In one of the countries in my world, there are a lot of magical public works simply because the magic users have basically all be drafted into the army. But even there they still tend to focus on big projects in heavily populated areas.
bluff bluff bluff bluff the stupid ogre....

because lurkers need love too
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
HollowDes Oct 25 2007, 12:06 PM Post #5
Big Koala
Posts:
283
Group:
The Council
Member
#12
Joined:
August 19, 2005
Interesting thoughts here, thanks to all for sharing so far.

I did a little of research, and stumbled upon something that has answered all my questions and much more:

A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe

For only $12, available as an instant download in .pdf format, this is by far, the most valuable supplement I've ever bought. I've been looking for a book exactly like this for years! :woot:

Here's a sample free chapter from the book:

A Magical Medieval City Guide

These books/guides are the missing piece of my DM education. It's always been hard for me to develop towns that satisified my own standards of versimilitude, because as I tried to fit any urban location into a grander scheme, I didn't know how to make it all work together.

The sub-systems that support a medieval society and the intricacies of feudalism are all fully detailed in this book and can help you make sure your campaign "feels" medieval from the ground up. This book basically asks the question: "How would medieval western europe have been different if magic and elves and monsters existed?"

The book is filled with black-and-white illustrations of scenes from midieval life, drawn in the style of midieval manuscripts. Reading it sometimes felt like reading a history text and the images and costumes do a good job keeping you in the mideival mindset.

This is the information I always felt was missing from the DMG, but seeing how much more space it would have taken up, I understand why it was left out. But, I wish it were marketed as core book #4, it's just that good. It even states in the beginning that it is an attempt to reconcile the issues brought about by trying to fit 3rd edition assumptions and rules with a medieval setting.

Another long-standing area of confusion and ignorance for me has been medieval guilds. I know they existed, I know they could have a lot of power and were important. But until this text, I never understood how they got started, how they worked, or how they acquired and used political power. This book explains all of it in great detail and is sprinkled with good examples throughout.

They also don't have a chapter dedicated to magic, because it's considered throughout all of the sections and how it would affect each aspect. The book assumes magic permeates society and would be used in every affordable and applicable way possible.

Some interesting conclusions they make I'd like to share:

* The chances that a community could exist for generations without a spontaneous or divine caster occuring in their populations is quite low.
* Therefor, low-level magic that does not require expensive material reagents is quite common.
* The average peasant is quite familiar with low-level magic and is only impressed or bewildered by higher-level spells they probably don't see on a daily basis
* Where there is a member of the gentry, nobility or royalty, there are servant-troupes, and servants almost always count a divine caster and sometimes an arcane caster among their ranks.
* Because lords live on the land they own, there are often casters available to rural communities. However, because lords travel often from one estate or domain to another, it is possible for a rural community to be without any casters for a time.
* Because of spells like cure minor wounds, cure disease, purify food and drink, mage hand, prestidigitation, and mending, life for a magical midieval peasant is a little easier and more plesant than it was for their historical counterparts. However, it is ultimately up to the GM how many rural communities benefit from the luxury of magic. It points out that just because curative magic is available, doesn't mean people are going to stop using traditional medicines and first aid when it makes sense to.

Other random interesting points:

* Hospitals in historical midieval times were seperated by those for treating leprosy and those for everything else. In a magical medieval world, hospitals are used primarily to treat the homeless and elderly and emergency treatment of trauma requiring a Cure 'x' Wounds spell.

* Although D&D worlds are normally polytheistic, the church of a patron god of a city or king can still become a formidable power center rivaling any guild.

* Midieval battles and castle defenses are changed quite a bit by the use of magic. Usually he who can field the most casters, especially healers, wins. The usefulness of a castle wall is affected when a battle-wizard can fly over it and send volleys of fireballs onto the troops within.

* There is a template provided to make a character into a King. One of the benefits to the template is complete immunity to any scrying or divination magic. It even goes as far as to say that if a king is caught in a scrying spell where they'd be visible, the viewer would see others around the king interacting with an invisible, silent figure. Nifty!

* It is common for lords to make deals with druids regarding foresting in return for magical services that aid crop production.

* Society is aware of the power of ressurection, therefor contracts or deals that are good for 'life' (especially vassalage) are only good until the individual's *first* death. So a person could be a king one day, then killed, stripped of his title, ressurected the next day and come back as a minor noble who now has to bow to junior who took the throne.

I think I've rambled enough. Needless to say, if any of this information has piqued your interest, get this book! It is definitely worth the instantly-downloadable $12. If anyone has questions or would like to hear more interesting conclusions, just ask away!
Sleep...oh, how I loathe those little slices of death. - Longfellow
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
Fenris Wulf Oct 25 2007, 04:00 PM Post #6
Member Avatar
Ritual Partaker
Posts:
162
Group:
The Council
Member
#161
Joined:
September 25, 2007
Another place to look for inspiration might be in the works of mystical groups in the real world, such as the Order of the Golden Dawn, and some of it's most well-known adherents, such as S. L. MacGregor Mathers, A. E. Waite, and the always entertaining Aleister Crowley.

In my own game worlds, I might use "nature magic" with some characters for the beauty of woodland scenes and robed (or disrobed!) priestesses chanting around a fire under the moon, but in general, I use "magick" as just another kind of science, using the art and science of mystic thought as my basis (and bias).

For example, Crowley is attributed with the phrase "magick is the art and science of causing change in conformity with the will." Using that definition, Willpower is the most important attribute of magic... and if you don't truly desire the result to occur, then it won't, as the will (thelema?) isn't there.

The Golden Dawn, and many of it's luminaries, have some fascinating reading on the subject of magick. Arthur Edward Waite, in particular, has some excellent books filled to overflowing with different pentacles and sigils and keys, most quite complex, and requiring painstaking duplication without error, for any magickal effect to occur.

Now, in a magick-heavy fantasy world, there's no reason to assume that these steps aren't required the same... just that the effects are greater. Resurrection of the dead, for example, would require steps just as complex and scientific as anything described by Waite (if not more-so!).

Somewhere in the late 1900's magick became "easier" and suddenly Witches, etc., needed nothing more than to chant around the fire under the moonlight... but in the 1800's magick was as complicated as any science, with serious study of the Kabbalah, the Tarot, Numerology and Astrology minimum required to have any chance of seriously casting a spell successfully. Seals and keys and rituals had to be followed precisely. Chants had to be done in ancient languages (such as Hebrew and Latin), and understanding (instead of just making the sounds) was strongly suggested. "Calling" to Ancient Powers was precise, and the calls had to be "vibrated" properly to have any affect.

This is only a small sampling of "the science of magick" and there is much, much more to be seen. See the Goetia or the Keys of Solomon, as two easy to find examples of this sort of thing.
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
Fenris Wulf Oct 25 2007, 06:02 PM Post #7
Member Avatar
Ritual Partaker
Posts:
162
Group:
The Council
Member
#161
Joined:
September 25, 2007
As a sort of addendum to my previous post (but still kept separate), here's a roleplaying game link I recommend.

Witchcraft RPG FREE Download

This is a free download of a game I paid way too much money for, you can now get it for free with no sign-up or anything.

The point of it is, it's a game set in the modern day using magic as presented by various real-world mystical groups (e.g. Rosicrucians, etc.). Magic is referred to as "meta-physics."

I'm not suggesting it as a game to play... I'm sure you have enough games to play as it is... but instead as a well-thought-out idea of how magic in the real world might look today, if "fantasy magick" really worked, using ideas and concepts of "real world" magic.

The game itself is kind of a cross between Vampire and Mage, but, like I said, I'm not really suggesting this to play, but just to look through for ideas. And the price is definitely right.
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
Lord_Iames_Osari Nov 13 2007, 11:30 AM Post #8
Member Avatar
Dabbler
Posts:
40
Group:
The Council
Member
#110
Joined:
May 7, 2007
I've only skimmed this topic, but in my opinion, if wide-spread, magic does replace technology after a certain point. This isn't to say that technology in the more traditional sense won't continue to develop, but it will do so far more slowly, and it will likely incorporate magic into its development in some way. If the magic goes away (for whatever reason), then traditional technology will have to be developed to take its place.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Monsters in the Playground
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
kismetrose Nov 13 2007, 03:46 PM Post #9
Member Avatar

Admin
Posts:
3,205
Group:
Admin
Member
#1
Joined:
February 6, 2005
Quote:
 
I've only skimmed this topic, but in my opinion, if wide-spread, magic does replace technology after a certain point. This isn't to say that technology in the more traditional sense won't continue to develop, but it will do so far more slowly, and it will likely incorporate magic into its development in some way.

You know, I was just thinking that there are some things that magic would probably handle better than technology. Making something out of next to nothing, for instance. But other things might be better handled by technology, especially if it's cheaper and easier to reproduce.
Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
Lord_Iames_Osari Nov 13 2007, 04:14 PM Post #10
Member Avatar
Dabbler
Posts:
40
Group:
The Council
Member
#110
Joined:
May 7, 2007
Yeah. Generally speaking, where both magic and technology are capable of achieving the same end, magic does it better/more reliably, but the technology is easier and cheaper to produce and use.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Monsters in the Playground
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
HollowDes Nov 13 2007, 04:36 PM Post #11
Big Koala
Posts:
283
Group:
The Council
Member
#12
Joined:
August 19, 2005
Work and life have kept me busy and away from this forum, so I didn't mean to let my own topic die.

It just dawned on me that if there's any fantasy universe that mixes magic and technology, it's nearly the entire Final Fantasy series. It's most prominent beginning with FF6, but I know FF4 and 5 had airships.

In FF6 it's like Industrial Era Europe with magic. Steam power is in wide use but electricity hasn't quite trickled down to the average citizen yet. The Empire, the organization spear-heading lots of freaky experiments that involve magic and science, has laboratories with huge glass capsules and a factory with lots of complex moving parts, and even an entire mechanized army. All of this was made possible by the crystallized souls of powerful, magical creatures called espers. Their crystallized souls are called "magicite".

I won't go over the entire series, but with the release of each Final Fantasy they have gotten progressively more futuristic. The opening scene for Final Fantasy 12, their newest PS2 title, could easily be mistaken for a battle scene in a sci-fi movie.

Thinking about this a little further, the quality of life of the average citizen in a Final Fantasy game doesn't seem too horrible under normal circumstances. These worlds come with a rather unique feel to them. In some areas, they are more advanced than our own current real-world, and yet there will exist rural areas will people still farm by hand and have never even heard of "electricity" but is usually familiar with magic. If you showed a Final Fantasy farmer a bolt of electricity, they would probably assume you just casted a lightning spell.

Come to think of it, in 12, much like 6, only the Empire (Arcadian in this game) has an abundance of technology. There's a huge gap between the have's and have-not's when it comes to technology. Interestingly, it doesn't always have to do with wealth or prestige. In 12 there are sky pirates who have their own airships seperate from the ones the Empire has which can be no more than floating buckets or highly sophisticated machines with black-market technology that even surpasses what the Empire has (Star Wars anyone?) Damn, I just realized that FF12 is Square's attempt at a Star Wars cover!

Anyway. Speaking of Star Wars, I'm finally able to start piecing together different perspectives on magic and technology. In the Star Wars universe, everyone owns a little technology, even the poor and un-educated (Luke's family.) The Force however, is an ancient power tied to the sort-of-dead religion of the Jedi that very few know even exists, and Han Solo's character even mocks it during one scene when Luke is trying to train with it, treating it like witchcraft or "magic."

As opposed to the Final Fantasy universe where magic is abundant and technology is a result of tinkering with magic. Those who tinker with it are the kind of humans who are ambitious, power hungry, and sit on top of organizations that see magic and technology as just another way to gain more power and control the masses.

Oh man, revelations are hitting me one after another! It seems to me then, the biggest difference between a sci-fi setting and a fantasy setting, is which came first. Magic or technology? On the rare occasion that the two are extremely blended, like in Eberron, it's not as easy to classify the setting. Eberron is as much sci-fi as it is fantasy, although I'd argue more towards the fantasy side, becuase its "technology" still has fantasy roots. For example, the lightning rails are powered by enslaved lightning elementals and the water fountain was an enslaved water elemental. (My character had one heck of a surprise when I cupped my hands into the fountain for a drink and had a face appear above my hands asking what I was doing.)

All of these worlds are also written with the same underlying motiff that makes me smirk because I assume it's a commentary on our own world. Well, maybe not the Star Wars one, but take the Final Fantasy worlds for example. There's usually some organization, an empire, that discovers a way to reshape the planet and make life better for everyone. How is this possible? There's usually some gruesome cost that your band of intrepid heroes discovers that is supported by the rich but appalls the average citizen. Hmmm. World War 2 anyone? Lord of the Rings? Princess Mononoke? EVERY Final Fantasy?

Considering we dropped two atomic bombs on the Japanese less than 100 years ago, it should come as no surprise that a lot of fiction produced in Japan still has this theme.

... what the hell was I talking about? I look at the last two paragraphs I typed, then looked at the topic, and have no idea how I got here, rofl.

Whatever, randomocity ftw.
Sleep...oh, how I loathe those little slices of death. - Longfellow
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
kismetrose Nov 13 2007, 08:53 PM Post #12
Member Avatar

Admin
Posts:
3,205
Group:
Admin
Member
#1
Joined:
February 6, 2005
Quote:
 
Work and life have kept me busy and away from this forum, so I didn't mean to let my own topic die.

It didn't die; it just hibernated.
Quote:
 
It just dawned on me that if there's any fantasy universe that mixes magic and technology, it's nearly the entire Final Fantasy series. It's most prominent beginning with FF6, but I know FF4 and 5 had airships.

It's funny that you should mention that because I was just thinking about that today. I was remembering espers and the war machines, and infusing soldiers with magic. Now I want an RPG for my favorite Final Fantasy games! Look what you've done!
Quote:
 
Anyway. Speaking of Star Wars, I'm finally able to start piecing together different perspectives on magic and technology. In the Star Wars universe, everyone owns a little technology, even the poor and un-educated (Luke's family.) The Force however, is an ancient power tied to the sort-of-dead religion of the Jedi that very few know even exists, and Han Solo's character even mocks it during one scene when Luke is trying to train with it, treating it like witchcraft or "magic."

This reminds me of Joss Whedon's Firelfy/Serenity universe. Most folks have some technology but the good stuff is expensive, so a lot of people are left with minimal technological influence. The rich and powerful planets are full of advances. And what little magic there is - River's psychic abilities - is either disbelieved or greeted with superstitious fear. I have the core book for the Serenity game and it's all right. I wish it had been more coherently done, though.
Quote:
 
It seems to me then, the biggest difference between a sci-fi setting and a fantasy setting, is which came first. Magic or technology?

I would also add that attitudes about science might also play a part. Sci fi settings tend to lean more heavily toward the scientific and to explain things more readily in scientific terms.
Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
Drakul Nov 14 2007, 06:32 AM Post #13
Member Avatar
Ritual Partaker
Posts:
160
Group:
The Council
Member
#152
Joined:
September 11, 2007
Arcanum on the PC mixes the both too.

but i've never played it. :(


Doesn't Hawkmoon do that as well?
"Could this be....an omen?!!"
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
Fenris Wulf Nov 14 2007, 07:09 PM Post #14
Member Avatar
Ritual Partaker
Posts:
162
Group:
The Council
Member
#161
Joined:
September 25, 2007
HollowDes
Nov 13 2007, 03:36 PM
It just dawned on me that if there's any fantasy universe that mixes magic and technology, it's nearly the entire Final Fantasy series.  It's most prominent beginning with FF6, but I know FF4 and 5 had airships.


Phantasy Star series does it, too, but to a lesser degree. Or maybe greater degree, I'm not sure. Anyway, the point is, Phantasy Star is a world where "magic" and "technology" exists totally hand-in-hand. So do swords and guns and armor of all types, for that matter.

I haven't seen the new Phantasy Star game, and the old ones are pretty old, so I don't know if anything has changed, but yeah, in Phantasy Star you can totally shoot your enemy with a laser pistol or needler gun, and if that doesn't work you can blast them with a fireball from your Magic Points.

I don't know what "kind" of magic PS has, because I don't think the game ever really said. Basically it's just "some people have magic because they have magic points, and those people can blast you into jelly without having a weapon in hand, and when they do their magic points go down temporarily" type magic. Whether or not that's what you're looking for, I don't know. But it's another place to look.


Quote:
 
Anyway.  Speaking of Star Wars, I'm finally able to start piecing together different perspectives on magic and technology.  In the Star Wars universe, everyone owns a little technology, even the poor and un-educated (Luke's family.)  The Force however, is an ancient power tied to the sort-of-dead religion of the Jedi that very few know even exists, and Han Solo's character even mocks it during one scene when Luke is trying to train with it, treating it like witchcraft or "magic."


Not anymore, my friend; Not anymore. The Force is now, and I'm quoting from the Wikipedia page on the subject:

Wikipedia "Midi-chlorians"
 
Midi-chlorians (also spelled "midi-clorians" or "midichlorians") are a fictional microorganism in the Star Wars universe, first mentioned in the prequel trilogy. They are microscopic life-forms that reside within the cells of almost all living things and communicate with the Force. Midi-chlorians comprise a collective consciousness and intelligence, forming links between everything living and the Force. They are symbionts with all other living things; that is, without them, life could not exist. The Jedi have learned how to listen to and coordinate the midi-chlorians. If they quiet their minds, they can hear the midi-chlorians speaking to them, telling them the will of the Force. In order to be a Jedi or a Sith, one must have a high concentration of midi-chlorians in one's cells.[1] This idea is somewhat similar to 17th-century philosopher Gottfried Leibniz's theory of monads—infinitesimal elementary particles that exist as something of an amalgam of matter and consciousness (termed "apperception").

The word "midi-chlorian" appears to be a portmanteau of "mitochondrion" and "chloroplast", two organelles found in real cells and thought to have evolved from bacteria as endosymbionts inside other cells, as purported in the endosymbiotic theory. Creator George Lucas has indeed stated that the midi-chlorians are based on the endosymbiotic theory (Rolling Stone, June 2005), and it appears that in the story of Anakin Skywalker, he wanted to create a more modern "virgin birth" in the Star Wars saga that was as much based in "science" (albeit fictional) as in philosophy and religion, with the mythic "givers of life" being microscopic life-forms, rather than gods.


There's more if you care, just click the link.

The Force changing from an occult science to a parasite doesn't really take away from what you are looking for (umm, at least I don't think so :unsure:). It turns Star Wars magic into a science, so if you're looking for the place where Magic and Science meet, there it is. And science is the "force" that powers technology.
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
kismetrose Nov 14 2007, 09:26 PM Post #15
Member Avatar

Admin
Posts:
3,205
Group:
Admin
Member
#1
Joined:
February 6, 2005
Quote:
 
Midi-chlorians (also spelled "midi-clorians" or "midichlorians") are a fictional microorganism in the Star Wars universe, first mentioned in the prequel trilogy.

Fuck midi-chlorians and the prequels they rode in on. :guns:
Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB
{Offline} {Profile} {Quote} ^
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today.
Learn More · Sign-up Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Running the Game · Next Topic »
{Add Reply}
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2

Track Topic · E-mail Topic Time: 1:25 AM Jul 11
Scroll and Ink theme created by Canimia of Zathyus Networks Resources
Hosted for free by ZetaBoards · Privacy Policy