| What's Your Favorite World... And Why?; Favorite Campaign Settings | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 26 2007, 08:39 PM (710 Views) | |
| kismetrose | May 28 2007, 12:44 AM Post #16 |
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You can check this site for a quick list of things that were changed. What it really comes down to is that I liked some of the changes but didn't like others. Some of my dislikes are less intense, as with my dislike of the updated ranger class. One of my most intense dislikes has to do with the power creep in 3.5. For a time I was looking through 3.5 books and marvelling at how many spells and classes seemed way overpowered. It was finally explained to me that it wasn't that the new things were overpowered, but that there had been a power increase across the board in 3.5. So, while some staple spells like Spider Climb and Endure Elements were made less effective, many other spells seemed more beneficial than their level implied. I had a player for a short time who kept showing me things from 3.5 supplements that I just did not care for, and they were not at all on par with the power level of our established game. My group and I had no desire to change the power dynamics of our game (nor did we want to eschew magical bonuses for special materials or alignment in the case of enchanted weapons). So we've effectively embraced the changes we like and left the rest behind. This caused an interesting situation with that short-term player because he had read just about all of the 3.5 materials he could get his hands on - but we weren't using purely 3.5 rules. It took some adjustment on my side and his, but we got through it. |
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Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB | |
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| PillBox | May 28 2007, 02:36 AM Post #17 |
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Habitual Offender
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The World Once a blue planet teeming with life, Athas has since been stripped of its fertility by the use of corrupting magic known as Defiling, and the decay of its sun. It is a sun-burnt land forsaken by the gods, water, and hope. The natural resources have been depleted and a lack of metal has resulted in the use of wood, obsidian and bone for weapons, tools and common equipment. In such a harsh and unforgiving land, even the most mundane of creatures have developed Psionic abilities in the constant struggle of survival of the fittest. In such a world as Athas, a death by natural aging is considered to be a great achievement and an event worthy of celebrations. Playable races While the world of Athas has many of the "normal" D&D races, they are substantially different; for instance, most halflings are vicious cannibals, elves are desert-running nomads, and dwarves are bald, with a tendency to become mentally focused or obsessed on achieving designated goals (like the derro). Official Races Aarakocra - A race of winged bird men, formerly appearing as monsters in other settings
Read more about Athas here |
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The Hauteville Campaign - based in the Forgotten Realms 'It does not matter how tall you stand, even a giant can be small' | |
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| suffer4love | May 28 2007, 12:39 PM Post #18 |
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Love Endures All Things
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That's cool. Actually, if magic is pretty much the same as it was in AD&D (and it seems to be), then that shouldn't really affect me at all, as I've long since house-ruled magic differently than in standard games: First, I've removed everything but "essential" spells, cutting the spellbook in less than half; Second, I allow players to choose spells "on the fly" from their spellbooks, instead of having to memorize first, but they still cannot cast more than the number of spells allowed in the rulebook. This house rule came about many years ago when my girlfriend at the time would only memorize combat spells. If she had three 1st-lvl slots, all three had "magic missile" in them. "I can't be sure what spells I'll need," she'd say, "but I'm certain to need a combat spell at some point in the game." Allowing her to choose a different spell on the fly gave her more options in gameplay. She might still not choose to use a non-combat spell, so she'd have more spells in combat later, but at least now she had a choice. So, I've been doing that for so many years it's really second nature, and I like it, so I'll probably adhere to that with the new system, also. Also, something else, I mis-stated something earlier... I said I never really thought of D&D as "broke." Well, I never thought of it as broke, because I never really thought it worked to begin with. I never played AD&D1e, and didn't get into D&D until the Red Box/Blue Box series. I switched up to AD&D2e because the presentation was so good, but never really preferred it, preferring the simpler D&D system. Our earliest D&D games, actually, were totally re-worked into a faux Greek style, which I called Mazes & Minotaurs. In it, we replaced Elves with Nymphs, and Halflings with Satyrs, and deleted dwarves entirely. The rules were kept the same for Elves and Halflings, only the character description was changed (since this was based on Greek stories, Nymphs were Nature Demigods, capable of fighting and magic, both... not giggly little girls who like to run away into trees and kidnap adventures, like in D&D). Original D&D worked great for this gameworld. But, as you already know, my earliest fantasy gaming was T&T, and it's still my game of choice when playing fantasy. Generally, I have always preferred "rules light" because I enjoy so much variety, and simpler games are easier to learn. A new, updated D&D actually might be a good thing, the problem for me is that in the stores it has seemed like the most complex version yet... I will have some work ahead of me stripping it down to it's core. |
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In death's eyes sorrow lingered once, seeing her life torn apart The shackles fell to see her free to walk the earth In her eyes life is present still, through the day I watch her sleeping I hold her close forever more (Bella Morte) | |
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| Have Dice Will Travel | May 28 2007, 03:46 PM Post #19 |
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Ritual Partaker
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In a lot of ways it is the most complex. We pretty much dropped a lot of combat rules in favor of house rules we used in 2nd edition already. No one complains really, or at least none of the players that fit with the group. As for world I'd have to go with FR if you're not going to make your own. However, I'd also say that the cannon story line should not be followed so closely as to limit the player's actions. Before we moved, we played FR exclusively and had strayed so far from cannon that I'm sure some people would hate it, but we never felt limited by the uber NPC storylines.
This is true as far as I know. Star Child would know more though. |
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| kismetrose | May 28 2007, 07:43 PM Post #20 |
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That's your perogative, but I'm sure that everyone has their own view of what the essential spells are. Far as we play it, the spells in the PHB are all fair game and we use some spells from other books, too.
Ditto here. I never could stand the "memorize your spells for the day" system. I've played under it, and I hate it.
If you're just getting the 3 core books, then it really isn't that complicated, especially since there are rules in there you won't use often (like drowning, and so on). The core mechanics that you'll use the most are relatively simple once you get the hang of them; if you can get THAC0, you can get everything in 3.5. Since you have time with the books before you'll be able to run a game, you might want to consider giving them a chance as they are and seeing how the game runs a little before stripping things away. You'll get to experience the mechanics as they're intended, you'll get more of a feel for how stuff fits together, and you'll probably find things you like that you didn't think you would. Of course, this is just a suggestion.
When I read the canon storylines, I take them for what they are: someone else's storylines, using someone else's NPCs, some of which I can't stand. That being said, the history provided can be useful for ideas and adventure seeds, so don't shy away from it - just don't be bound by it. |
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Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB | |
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| suffer4love | May 28 2007, 08:31 PM Post #21 |
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Love Endures All Things
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Yeah, heehee! That's one of the great things about being the DM... it's my perogative! LOL! If someone else wants a spell in the game, I tell 'em that if they wanna DM it, they can have it! In my world, it just ain't there, Jack! The first spell I ever cut out of AD&D was called "Tasha's Uncontollable Hideous Laughter." Damn, I hated that spell! I really play in "Low Magic" (make that very Low Magic worlds), where a man making glowing crossbow bolts appear in front of his fingers makes everybody gasp and run for the hills. I actively discourage Wizards, and in my universes, they are either reviled or respected from fear. That said, any spell can make it's way back in. I just need a starting point. So I start with attack spells, defense spells, transportation spells, and a few utilities. Then I start cutting, looking for repeats first, then looking for silliness... I don't even wanna see Tasha's Hideous Uncontrollable Laughter being cast. But, anyway, if I ever play with a group again and we get to where all the "allowed" spells are in use and we want to add something new and different, sure, one of the disallowed can be "discovered" or "created." I just prefer that spellcasters, when they must be in the game, just cast the best spell for the job... and that will usually pare down to a few core spells that they'll prefer anyway, or at least that's how it's always been in my games. Back when I played T&T constantly, the main attack spell was "Take That, You Fiend." I found that Wizards tended to cast that spell, even when another spell might be more helpful... for example, they could have cast a Vorpal Blade on the Warrior's sword, and he might have done more damage than the TTYF... but the Wizards just loved their TTYF... it was always the first gun pulled out in every battle.
Kewl beans, Maynard. And here I thought I was being original and different. So, I'm guessing this is a fairly common house rule then? Do you allow Wizards to "trade down" spells, i.e. sacrifice a higher level spell for a lower level one, if they need it? I do, but I don't allow trade ups, even if they want to trade at a higher ratio (e.g. 2/1 or 3/1). The only choice I give is per the book, or trade down one for one. I've been asked to do trade ups, but I've never allowed it.
And always a good one. I do try to try out the game as intended before making any major changes, of course. And the new system, I'm given to understand, is basically a target number system using d20. Add modifiers and try to equal or beat a pre-determined number. This is the same as T&T, MSPE, and Cyberpunk 2020... all games that I've run for years successfully (except T&T/MSPE uses 2d6 or 2d10 (house rule) and CP uses 1d10). So, I'm actually pretty familiar with the basic system already. I really hope you get a chance to flip though that old D&D Cyclopedia I drool over on the boards someday... you would be amazed at how complex it is for a simple game, especially if you add in some of the optional rules. And I do just fine with that game.
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In death's eyes sorrow lingered once, seeing her life torn apart The shackles fell to see her free to walk the earth In her eyes life is present still, through the day I watch her sleeping I hold her close forever more (Bella Morte) | |
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| suffer4love | May 28 2007, 09:03 PM Post #22 |
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Love Endures All Things
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You know, we haven't heard from Star Child in a long time, have we? When I first got on here, Star Child posted quite a few times, but then, poof, gone. Well, bring 'im back... show this post, if he's big on the Sailor Moon series, he can fill us in on the details I lack (which is pretty much all of them). |
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In death's eyes sorrow lingered once, seeing her life torn apart The shackles fell to see her free to walk the earth In her eyes life is present still, through the day I watch her sleeping I hold her close forever more (Bella Morte) | |
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| suffer4love | May 28 2007, 09:11 PM Post #23 |
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Love Endures All Things
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Hmm... I'm surprised no one's accused me of borrowing from that already, lol. About five years ago me and my gf at the time were working on a shared world, and we had many similar ideas... for example, we agreed on a desert world, and a Winged Human race (but these were strictly Winged Humans, not birdlike at all), and the Mantis Men (we were deeply into Space Ghost at the time, and we wanted a bad guy like Zorak). We also included Trolls of the Changeling: The Dreaming variety, as well (which have made the transition to other games I play, as well). And of course, we attempted to emulate cultures that live in these environments (Bedouin, for example). Honestly, the setting didn't get far off the ground, and her and I ran some practice runs for us and a couple of friends... we were just too busy at that time to really sit down and focus on it. It looks like it's just as well, as it mostly would have been an exercise in needless repitition! Well, like Kismet says, "There's nothing new under the sun...." |
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In death's eyes sorrow lingered once, seeing her life torn apart The shackles fell to see her free to walk the earth In her eyes life is present still, through the day I watch her sleeping I hold her close forever more (Bella Morte) | |
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| kismetrose | May 28 2007, 09:19 PM Post #24 |
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When it comes down to it, I play in pretty magic rich worlds because I really like magic. In my FR game, most cities have a trade in magical items (though usually only lesser ones) and if you look around, you can find magical services at churches and guilds. I let my PCs sell some of their spells sometimes, though I'm still working on that. Now that we have a wizard in the party, I'm hoping to do some neat arcane plot stuff for her, and to add neat wizardly details. I also want to introduce more guilds of consequence and visibility.
I don't know if it's common but I know we're not the only ones who feel that way. I've heard a lot of people complain about that part of the magic system. A lot of people don't like the Vancian setup in general.
No, I don't allow trade downs or trade ups. They get enough spells without that.
I have so many books lined up in my queue to read, it's not even funny.
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Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB | |
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| suffer4love | May 28 2007, 10:08 PM Post #25 |
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Love Endures All Things
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Someday I'm gonna figure out the quote box thing, and my life is gonna get so much easier.... Anyway, back on track: My first fantasy fiction was Conan, and it shaped the way I saw fantasy from then on. I never really took to the Tolkien version, prefering more low-powered adventures of low-powered heroes. So, this is typical of the fantasy fiction I read. Normally, if there's a Wizard in the story, he's the bad guy. There might be a hero Wizard, normally a Priestess of some Cult, but she exists mostly for the hero to fall in love with and protect her from the evil Wizard who wants to use her for his own end (and not even that! No, he just wants power! What's wrong with these evil Wizards? :lol: ) And he's really not all that hard to beat... if the Hero sees the Wizard is casting a spell, if he can get over there and cleave the Wizard's skull in twain before the incantation is completed, then he has succeeded in saving the girl... and he can move on to the next town, which has plenty of other Priestesses that need saving. Magic items are rare to non-existent. I prefer the Hero succeed by his wits and his skill, not by his +4 Sword of Wizard Slaying. Even fantasy races are rare... I don't normally disallow them, but I've kept them the rare exception. If there's an Elf in the group, I tend to either make him gawked at by passerbys ("Look Mommy, is dat an elf?") or have to cover his features to avoid same... either of which can cause the city guard to wonder what he's doing here, and what he's up to. One more note: I'm not really opposed to "magick" if it's done well... but, in most fantasy (read: all fantasy, not just D&D) games I've been in, it only seems to be instant artillery or a way of moving the story along/circumventing the situation. If the system is presented with mystery and mysticism, if casting a spell to unlock a door (and why would such a thing exist anyway...? that's what keys are for!) requires candles and a pentacle and a ritual... then I'm cool with it. But when it's just "Merlyn casts Open Sesame." "Okay, the door opens and you enter the room" then I just feel something is missing.
Well, two us a thousand miles apart do it that way... I guess one way to find out is to ask the people here on the board... do spellcasters in your games have to memorize their spells at the beginning of the game day, or do you just allow them to choose their spells during play, as long as they don't cast more than the number of spells per day allowed? Hopefully we'll get a few replies, and see if there are others doing this, too.
I don't mind the trade down because the players are essentially screwing themselves out of power. Trading down doesn't get them more spells, they just have the option of using a lower powered spell (or lower powered version) if they don't have better options available at higher level.
Eh, I didn't really mean for you to read it, I just mean flip though it and see how much info is in it. It's four box sets combined into one, and there's just tons of info in it. Hopefully you'll run into a copy at a Con sometime, and just open it up for a quick perusual (then buy it and sell it to me, if it's in good shape!). |
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In death's eyes sorrow lingered once, seeing her life torn apart The shackles fell to see her free to walk the earth In her eyes life is present still, through the day I watch her sleeping I hold her close forever more (Bella Morte) | |
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| kismetrose | May 28 2007, 11:01 PM Post #26 |
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The world really is a matter of different strokes for different folks. I could stand that setup every now and then, maybe, but for the most part I wouldn't be reading books like that or playing games like that. I'm glad other people can enjoy it and I know a lot of people do, but it just ain't my thing. I didn't grow up with Tolkein per se since I didn't read the books till my early twenties, but I grew up with a decent dose of fantasy, with magic and strange worlds and alien races. (And I hated priestesses waiting to be rescued, even as a kid. My icons as far as females in fantasy films were Ellen Ripley and Princess Leia.)
I hope my players will do what they can with all of the stuff at their disposal, including magic items, because they're going to need everything they can get. ![]()
Actually, I imagine that to be the case in different parts of just about any fantasy world. I tend to think of the Forgotten Realms as a varied setting, capable of having many different kinds of situations - there are places where wizards are anathema, there are places where races other than human are stigmatized, and so on.
I've heard others say such things and I still don't quite understand it, because I simply don't share the sentiment. As I said, I like magic. Sometimes magic should be instant artillery, as I see it. And spells for opening doors exist because keys have a nasty way of getting lost. I actually enjoy practical spells meant for everyday, smaller uses, because I imagine that people would develop those kinds of spells early to handle the annoying details of life. Before magic missile, there would be prestidigitation.
Sorry, I just hear about other books to see and freak out a bit. It's the end of the quarter, so there you go.
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| suffer4love | May 29 2007, 06:07 AM Post #27 |
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Love Endures All Things
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Umm... in the Star Wars I remember, in the first half of the film Princess Leia sat around waiting to be rescued from the clutches of the evil wizard.... Okay, while you're stewing on that one, lol, here's the rest....
Actually, a quick perusual of my DVD collection would show that my heroes are mostly strong female types, for example, the entire series of Buffy and Dark Angel, as well as Red Sonja and Sheena and some others too that I can't remember. Many of them (e.g. Sheena) are male-oriented, to be sure, but a male oriented movie with a strong female lead typically beats a male oriented movie with a strong male lead, in my humble opinion. Actually, when I was writing the previous post, I had considered flipping the genders of some of the characters above, to more accurately reflect what I watch ("Priest of some Cult exists mainly for the Heroine to fall in love with...") but I decided against it at the last minute, mostly for readability, and to not deviate from the point of the post (i.e. reading old-fashioned S&S). Oh, one more note, sassy and capable Princesses/Priestesses with attitude are pretty much the norm, nowdays at least. "And I think to myself... What A Wonderful World...."
I love games like that, too, lol.
Yeah, of course. Obviously, an Elf wouldn't stand out in Elf City, but a Human would. I really tend to like everything to some degree, and hate to throw out anything. This not only gives a "kitchen sink" feeling to some of my games, unfortunately, but it also means that I frequently fail to create anything cohesive... any rule is breakable if it allows me to keep a standard fantasy trope. I wish I could create something with a defined set of rules and stick to it, but everything I decide eliminates everything that opposes that decision, so I end up deciding nothing (rather than permanently change or remove any element).
Actually, this is a fairly new bias of mine. T&T has four character classes, and three of them are spellcasters! While the spellbook is short by modern standards, everything is there, even the Open Door spell. T&T removes all mysticism from magic, calling it a "psi-factor arranged in the matrices in the mind of the caster, hence IQ as a controlling attribute" (or something close to that; I don't have the text in front of me, but I pretty much have it memorized and that's close). Calling it a psi-factor certainly removes the bias against the Open Door spell (called Knock Knock in T&T, but I renamed it Open Sesame), as if the spell is a psi-power, then casting it is merely using psionic ability to manipulate the tumblers... this view is augmented by the fact that spells cost Strength to cast, and the Mage will become weakened by the strain of spellcasting... which really leads to a frequently psionic-y feel to spells. It's only when a game includes a very strong bias toward mystic magic that I really start to feel the way I indicated above (e.g Witchcraft). Using Star Wars again, The Force may be described as "mystical" (although the new movies just say it's a parasite, yuk!), but in actual practice it's usually depicted to be a mental power... so using it to open a door is not at all untoward (although I don't actually recall that happening in any of the movies...). It's also possible to merge these two concepts into a cohesive whole, a la Willow on Buffy (and the Buffyverse in general) where "floating a pencil" using your mind and "determining the location of demons" using a complex ritual are both considered forms of magic. However, if I'm taking this version as my own, I would like to at least pay lip service to the concept (opening the door will look psionic, with the caster focusing his mind to turn the tumblers; but the caster will draw a pentacle on the floor and light candles when doing a Locate Demon). There I go with the whole "Kitchen Sink" approach again, lol!
Colleges should offer a class on roleplaying games! History, design, importance... the whole shebang. That would be just Too Cool. If you'll teach the class, I will sign up today!
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In death's eyes sorrow lingered once, seeing her life torn apart The shackles fell to see her free to walk the earth In her eyes life is present still, through the day I watch her sleeping I hold her close forever more (Bella Morte) | |
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| Have Dice Will Travel | May 29 2007, 06:42 AM Post #28 |
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Ritual Partaker
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We're using 3.5 pretty houseruled. Wizards do have to memorize, Sorcerers do not. What's the difference between the two if they don't? Besides that Wizards and Sorcerers are somewhat different. Sorcerers can not ever make magical items. Wizards can of course we also brought back the need for permanency for multiple use items. Metamagic feats have been modified so they can be used on the fly (for damage). The thought being that Sorcerers basically tap directly into magic and have greater control, but limited spells while Wizards have to force magic to happen, but can learn to do more. Sorcerers can trade down spells but only one for one. Wizards can't. We also allow the extra slot and extra spell feats with no penalty so you can take them for the highest level you can cast instead of one lower. They're feats, they should be cool. Lysander doesn't much like magic, I do. I also try not to make magic users that will screw up his story line. I have yet to take teleport for my Rome character even though they're like 12th level or something now. It's starting to hurt, but not enough to give in yet. Besides I finally got my chain lightning use! Whooo!
This is very common in Lysander's games. Occasionally it's annoying. Most of the time it's cool. When we do get magic items it's really nice. |
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| suffer4love | May 29 2007, 06:45 AM Post #29 |
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Love Endures All Things
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Hmm. And Suffer doesn't much like magic, and Kismet does.... Is there a gender bias here?
That's the effect I usually go for... scarcity increases value; being rare makes it more special when it occurs (we can't all carry Excalibur). |
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In death's eyes sorrow lingered once, seeing her life torn apart The shackles fell to see her free to walk the earth In her eyes life is present still, through the day I watch her sleeping I hold her close forever more (Bella Morte) | |
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| GrimGent | May 29 2007, 08:47 AM Post #30 |
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Habitual Offender
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"Disclaimer: The words 'he', 'him' and 'his' are used throughout this book as generic third-person singular pronouns. With this usage the author, a man of great gallantry, does not wish to imply that members of the fairer sex are any less likely to have astonishing adventures than their male counterparts despite their frailty, lack of education and great aptitude for giggling and fainting. He does not assume that flouncy crinolines and a décolletage like alabaster might make them any less able to engage in espionage against the French while disguised as a haddock, or that their extensive skills in needlepoint and household management would be anything but an asset when seducing the Empress of Russia. In short, he believes that in many ways women are just as brave, capable and interesting as men, and in occasional circumstances more so. Bless their little hearts." (From the introduction to The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen.) |
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5:44 PM Jul 10