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Animating dead; Cultural bias?
Tweet Topic Started: Feb 4 2006, 05:22 AM (613 Views)
Freston Feb 4 2006, 05:22 AM Post #1
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A barbarian tribe, on the outskirts of the continent. They worship the spirits of this world, and their ancestors.

This culture is very different from the 'regular' Pelor worshipping settlements of man. They live close to nature. They worship certain trees, as seats of the gods. They might even live in harmony with feys and other woodland creatures. And their whole life is a preperation for the afterlife.

For a fallen warrior there is no greater honor than to be animated, and thus keep serving his tribe after he's departed. Tribespeople bring tribute to thus animated corpses, honoring them at ritualistic festifals. Respected members of society can earn, by special achievements, the honor of eternity.

In this tribe you could see animated corpses, being decorated with flowers. They probably have special seats at village-events.

Anyway, I want to design a tribe/culture of tribes in which animating dead is not concidered evil. The animated dead have a special place in their society.

The people in this society will be good-hearted, but primitive and ... eh well ... different. Things that in your regular society will be normal, will be blasphemous here. Don't know what yet? Maybe talking to someones wife is punishable by death (or duel). Or the ultimate hospitality is to offer your wife to a visitor. And refusing is such a crude affront you're exiled before you can say <insert short comical remark>

Who wants to :help:
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Shapeless Caren Feb 4 2006, 06:28 AM Post #2
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Well, I would love to help you, as this makes perfect sense.
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Shapeless Caren Feb 4 2006, 07:05 AM Post #3
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For the animating dead, it could be something like the egyptians. They have a long special ceremony where they prepare the body, to ready it for the after-life(and to make sure it does not smell...). Then, they would have a grand feast, where they animate the body to serve them. It would be a time of joy, for the fallen could serve them once more. Then, mayhaps they distribute the warrior's gear around, so that may also benfit the village.
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DaveReaves Feb 4 2006, 10:50 AM Post #4
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One problem I see is your going against the black and white alignment system. You have to remember that just because one person (or tribe or culture) does not see a specific evil action as evil, that action does not lose its status as evil. Pelor would probably look down on this tribe who's culture revels in the evils of raising dead and be very displeased. Also with the various undead creating spells having the evil descriptor and a cleric can't cast spells with an opposed alignment to his diety.

In Eberron there is a new version of animated corpses called (I believe) the undying. Perhaps that is a better match for a Pelor worshiper.

Druids of Pelor is a great deity for druids or lesser people who revere nature. Simply put, nature would not exist without the power of the sun. The nature worshiping aspects get my seal of approval.
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Shapeless Caren Feb 4 2006, 11:20 AM Post #5
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In the book of exalted deeds, there too is something like the undead. It is the ... pulling out book ... deathless. They are creatures who have died, and returned to a kind of spiritual life. However while the undead serve as a mockery of life and the natural order, these merley stave of the inevibiality of death, to accomplish a righteous end. They are the same as undead except they can be level drained, and positive energy heals them, and negative energy harms them. Also evil clerics turn them, and good rebuke them.

Could you use this?
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DaveReaves Feb 4 2006, 11:34 AM Post #6
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Deathless, thats it. I'm not sure where I got undying from. Those are the guys I was talking about.
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Shapeless Caren Feb 4 2006, 11:54 AM Post #7
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Perhaps, also you could make several new feats and spells for the place, fitting the theme of benefitting all.
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kismetrose Feb 4 2006, 12:09 PM Post #8
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One problem I see is your going against the black and white alignment system.

Only some people see such a thing as a problem. The way I see it, keeping the black and white alignment system intact is not my job or my desire. If it makes sense and feels right that a group can animate dead as an act of good faith, I'm going to do it (if that was my aim).

I do feel that some cultures would raise the dead as guardians and do so as an act of honor - but not on a regular basis. They would likely be selective. After all, lots of people die, but not all of them were very successful at having lived, and you don't want to raise so many dead that they outnumber the living. Freston, you said your tribe would bring back only the most respected. There would have to be a way for the tribe (or the leaders) to reach a consensus of who deserves to be brought back, probably in the form of a ritual.

And there is a small thing to be considered: if the most respected are kept undead and are allowed to keep their positions, then new people cannot rise to fill the seats of power. This could cause some very big troubles down the road and make the living feel rather unappreciated. There would have to be measures in place to be sure this sort of thing did not happen.
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DaveReaves Feb 4 2006, 12:21 PM Post #9
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Very true. Normally I'm not much of one to stick to the RAW (yea I know) when other aspects of the game can be enhanced, but alignment is one of those areas where I tend to go a little more by the book. Simplifies things as far spells things like detecting stuff, smiting stuff and other alignment based effects. Being so ingrained into the system makes me a little wary of messing with it.
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Shapeless Caren Feb 4 2006, 02:33 PM Post #10
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From races of the Wild idea.
Thosw who have died and been brought back to life serve as secert gaurdians, protecting from the shadows, and in secert. Would work better as they do not die, and have great knowledge.
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Jagyr Ebonwood Feb 4 2006, 10:41 PM Post #11
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Re: Black/White alignment:

I look at it this way. Inthe standard system, animating dead is evil because it traps the unwilling soul (don't get me started on the whole disparity between making zombies and golems...I hate the arbitrary evil label on certain actions). If you change the system so that the soul is willing, and that it departs from the body (basically, the volunteer leaves his body to science, only instead of science, he leaves it to his tribe), then it's all well and good.

If the guy is willing, and no one gets hurt, the only rational for calling it evil is that "dead people are icky" which is stupid.

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Freston Feb 5 2006, 09:57 AM Post #12
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The alignment system is a bit difficult in mathers like this. But it is also not the most interesting aspect of the culture of these people. If kind people worshipping animated bodies of relatives are evil without knowing it, than so be it.

I don't know how you'd feel about that, but I'd love to see the faces of my players if they find out the culture is concidered evil (by the Detect Evil spell), only because they animate dead. That is even harder to swallow than them being good despite the fact that they animate dead.

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I do feel that some cultures would raise the dead as guardians and do so as an act of honor - but not on a regular basis. They would likely be selective. After all, lots of people die, but not all of them were very successful at having lived, and you don't want to raise so many dead that they outnumber the living. Freston, you said your tribe would bring back only the most respected. There would have to be a way for the tribe (or the leaders) to reach a consensus of who deserves to be brought back, probably in the form of a ritual.


I was thinking, a small tribes (30-70) of hunter-gatherers in an area of scattered forests (50/50 plains/forest). Or marsh! These tribes will probably be threatened by outside influences (the occasional troll). The people live hard and dangerous lives, they may sometimes be forced to hunt Big Game (Dire Boar with mustard-sause and olives). For their defence they would have to have trained warriors, with probably a high degree of honor within the community.

Of course, their sense of honor makes these warriors more than willing to keep serving their tribe after they have died whilst protecting their kin. You see, only the strongest of bonds between these tribesmen keep them alive.

For healing, these people are dependent on a shaman. A shaman that probably will not be part of the tribe in any real sense. He lives apart, but comes by occasionally. This will be freakish moments in the lives of the tribesmen, who regard the shaman with a mixture of angst and awe. He'll demand feasts in his honor, he'll threaten with diseases and worst, but he also heals their wounded and sick. And he alone can grand the privilege of eternity...

said the fool, and he showed his suntanned teeth.
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DaveReaves Feb 6 2006, 11:24 AM Post #13
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Ok, when you put it like that I think it will work very well. My vision situation had clerics of Pelor raising zombies but somehow still managed to live in peace with the other, normal clerics and Pelor himself. With that explanation of the shaman I think your little town will be a great place to roleplay.

See, you knew what you were doing ;)
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Freston Feb 7 2006, 05:09 AM Post #14
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Although the possibilities are numerous, I've kind of set my mind on a sort of Vodoo-shaman. Terrifying to behold, decorated with skulls (human) and very agressive. But for some reason, he heals the sick and wounded. No, he's not populair. He is feared. But the people are dependend on him, and they hold his wisdom in the highest regard.

Although I'm also quite intrigued with a larger community, with a clerical order that preaches the preperation for the afterlife. Maybe the head of the order is a lich or something. In this way, you'd get more like an Egyptical feel to the setting. Wee Jas as their god? How does that sound?
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HollowDes Feb 13 2007, 11:33 AM Post #15
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I'm at work exploring the forums a bit more in-depth, checking out threads I haven't before, and this happened to be one of them. I see your last reply was about this time last year, what did you end up doing with this? I'd be curious to hear the status of this and if you got a chance to unleash it on your players or not.
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