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Leadership
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 5 2006, 05:39 PM (596 Views)
kismetrose Jan 5 2006, 05:39 PM Post #1
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Have you ever played a character with the Leadership feat? How did your DM handle all of the extra NPCs? How did it go?

Or, have you ever seen the Leadership feat in action while being a player (even if it wasn't your character who took it)?

I am curious what folks think about the feat from a player's perspective.
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Didge Jan 5 2006, 05:46 PM Post #2
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It is one of two Feats I ban in my game. The other is Vow of Poverty. Both have their uses, but neither are what I am looking for.

As it stands, Leadership allows a player to gain multiple "extra's" in the form of other folks, to help increase the pip number when damage is coming at them, and/or means for them to outright play another class for 1 friggin' Feat!

Yes, I understand the individual comes in at a lower level, but sometimes an optimized lwoer level character can be more effective than the higher level characters. I've seen this Feat abused in other games and seen the back-ups outshine the other PC's. Now this is partially the fault of the DM running the game, but still.

Yeah, I have a serious problem with that Feat. The only way, and I mean ONLY way I'd let it into my game is if I made up a matrix that you roll randomly to get which class comes into your services. I'd have to tweak it a bit, but currently, as it stands, no way in hell in my game at least.

When you're making an Adventure, remember to ask, "WWMPD" (What Would My Player's Do?) Then tailor your adventure around that.
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DaveReaves Jan 5 2006, 06:48 PM Post #3
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I remember once a player in a game I was playing in took leadership. DM hated the mess out of it because the guy took a cleric companion. The DM also let the guy build the cleric and needless to say the companion was built with the strengths and weaknesses in mind and they were a great combination. I don't think it would be that bad if the DM created the cohort for the player based on a few key things the player is looking for (say a healing spec cleric of Heronious).
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Aladdar Jan 5 2006, 07:38 PM Post #4
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I think the DM should be responsible for creating the cohort, with maybe some slight input from the player. I like the idea of rolling on a table for one. The PC could then decide if this is the kind of cohort he'd accept or not and then he'd have to wait a bit of time before trying again.
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Didge Jan 5 2006, 08:23 PM Post #5
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DR,

You sure you weren't in the same group as me? That's the same thing that happened when I saw the Leadership Feat abused.
When you're making an Adventure, remember to ask, "WWMPD" (What Would My Player's Do?) Then tailor your adventure around that.
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Fixxxer Jan 5 2006, 08:52 PM Post #6
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Aladdar
Jan 5 2006, 09:38 PM
I think the DM should be responsible for creating the cohort, with maybe some slight input from the player. I like the idea of rolling on a table for one. The PC could then decide if this is the kind of cohort he'd accept or not and then he'd have to wait a bit of time before trying again.

That being said, I do recommend that you disallow Leadership for our upcomming game. It's just my advice, so take it or leave it, but you've already got enough on yor plate without having to worry about Andrew, his cohort and his 306 followers.
In my mind, it is that simple. But then, I'm simple minded. -Didge-
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kismetrose Jan 5 2006, 11:44 PM Post #7
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It's a bit of work, but I've had a lot of fun with the Leadership feat in my game - and I had two players who took it in the same game. I made most of the NPCs, though, and my players knew better than to take their very low-level folks into battle (you do lose points if your followers die, you know). They generally left their lower-level followers behind and only took their cohorts with them. As far as I know, my players have loved a lot of the Leadership-gained NPCs, and I think those NPCs bolstered the game world. As a DM, I've had good experiences with the feat. Since I don't get to play in groups that often, however, I was wondering how players felt about it.
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Aladdar Jan 6 2006, 06:31 AM Post #8
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lol @ fix. Knowing Andrew as I do, I could see him going that route.

I'll take your advice.
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Shapeless Caren Jan 6 2006, 02:56 PM Post #9
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Andrew Nailor?
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Vacerious Jan 6 2006, 07:27 PM Post #10
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I once knew a guy who played a goblin tinkerer (race and class from Warcraft D20) who had Leadership. All of his extra NPC's were his employees at his workshop. They built him an airship, a mecha (more-or-less), guns, a burrower, and many other destructive things. He wound up being on the wrong end (specifically, inside the mouth part) of a dragon's breath weapon while his pack was filled with his gun, bombs, grenades, and ammo. the only things that survived the resulting explosion was the gun and his boots. :D

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Shapeless Caren Jan 6 2006, 07:32 PM Post #11
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Ouch...
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Mordien Jan 8 2006, 03:54 AM Post #12
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My Dm took a bit different rout with this feat.

He allowed my Cleric to Sune to take a hencman fairly early on(he created him and made him a Fighter aspirering to become a knight).

He then allowed me to get easier acces to the halls of Power when I (we) went about to Create a Knights Templar order to Sune.

This order i previously have posted on this board.

What i want to say is that nothing is stoping a creative Dm , never forget that the rules are only guidelines !

Dont you develop a book full of houserules ?
All warfare is based on Deception


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kismetrose Jan 8 2006, 04:03 AM Post #13
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It seems best when characters are able to employ their lower-level followers somehow other than as an army (since, once the character hits higher levels, the lower-level guys aren't very effective in combat versus higher-level enemies). One player of mine made a church and had his followers there. The other plans to have a workshop of some kind, I believe.
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Mordien Jan 10 2006, 12:22 PM Post #14
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"One player of mine made a church and had his followers there. The other plans to have a workshop of some kind, I believe.(Kismet) "

Yes ! that is a metod of using followers and henchmen. I favor and my Dm to.

There are proberbly other exelent sulutions to this.
All warfare is based on Deception


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Jagyr Ebonwood Jan 15 2006, 12:20 PM Post #15
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Leadership is a difficult feat that needs to be monitored closely.

A player in my group took leadership to get a cohort, and the DM let him create the guy himself. Now, I love both these guys, but that was a mistake on the part of the DM. The PC excels in nearly every field except close combat. So, obviously, he makes his cohort a tank. High AC, several attacks per round, +8 to his damage dice. This makes the duo a perfect team.

This is exactly the thing that should be avoided. How often do you bump into a guy on the street with a set of skills that perfectly compliment yours, and, lo and behold, this guy wants to leave his life behind and become your personal bodyguard?
Yeah, sure.

DMs should be in charge of the creation of cohorts, and should also be responsible for the final say on their actions (they're NPCs, after all) until such time that the player can be counted on to play the cohort realistically.

Leadership can ruin a game if used wrong. Unfortunately, if used correctly, it can make a lot of extra work for the DM. For these reasons, I usually err on the side of caution and disallow it during PC creation and level-up, and save it as a special plot reward, if someone really wants it...
"Yea, and word unto thee. Pray, money, art thou down with OPP? Verilly thus? For I desire to do the nasty with thine ho, as I tire of doing mine own ho in mine own crib, a most fly one at that." -Fixxxer
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