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The Subtle Approach
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 29 2005, 01:29 PM (450 Views)
kismetrose Nov 29 2005, 01:29 PM Post #1
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Recently I saw a thread about a guy who found some cheating going on in his game and wanted to put a stop to it. The problem was that the cheater was married to another player in real life, and she had a temper. If she got really pissed, she would leave the game and take her husband with her.

Over the years I've seen a lot of other threads with similar elements: there's trouble in the group, the DM wants to work on it but will risk losing a lot by working on it in the open.

In my experienced as a DM, I've found that sometimes you can't afford to be upfront with everyone. I have had some truly maddening passive-aggressive players, one of which would lie to your face to tell you what you wanted to hear. Sometimes it doesn't matter how you level with a person; you just can't run up and storm the castle. You might be able to get results by roundabout, subtle methods, but in-your-face honesty doesn't work at all.

And you can't just kick every player out of your game that ever gives you a problem. Most threads I see, most of the responses are made up of: "If the player doesn't do what you want on command, throw him out" or "I wouldn't put up with that - just kick him out!" Not everyone has their choice of players given their area, schedule, and so forth. On top of that, a lot of folks play with personal friends and throwing them out could affect the friendship. (Yes, I know a game shouldn't affect a friendship, but let's just face it - the game can and often does.)

It seems to me that sometimes a different tactic is needed. Some folks ask for advice on how to be subtle and the majority of folks don't seem to know how to respond. Yet I highly doubt that folks are as blatantly honest and totally upfront as they say they are.
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Fixxxer Nov 29 2005, 02:15 PM Post #2
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kismetrose
Nov 29 2005, 03:29 PM
Yet I highly doubt that folks are as blatantly honest and totally upfront as they say they are.

I certaily agree...which is why I have ittle respect for most forumgoers that dispense the "I wouldn't take that shit...kick the lamer out!" advise, but will roll over themselves on a simple internet argument. It's obvious these people would indeed take any amount of shit their players felt like spoon feeding them and they'd timidly ask for more. I, on the other hand, am not a roll over kind of guy, as Aladdar can attest to. I'm extremely polite and helpful to any player, but I don't take any shit. Once I'm convinced that the player isn't meshing with the group, I get the group together and have a little pow wow about him, which almost always ends up with that player gone.
In my mind, it is that simple. But then, I'm simple minded. -Didge-
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Aladdar Nov 29 2005, 02:19 PM Post #3
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I'm a lot like fix in that I took a lot of crap from people for a long time trying to make everyone happy, I finally got to the point in life where I said, that's enough. The only person I take crap from now is my wife (and it more than makes up for getting rid of the rest of it, lol).

However I do understand that some people can't do that or it could ruin friendships, etc...

For the dice rolling thing, the most simple thing I could say would be to make a new rule that everyone has to roll in the open and no rolling at all until the DM asks for your roll, in which case it is rolled in a special dice rolling box or something for all to see. It would add more time and tedium to the game, but if you can't trust someone and you can't get rid of it, it's worth it.
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Didge Nov 29 2005, 02:59 PM Post #4
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no rolling at all until the DM asks for your roll


I utilize this rule myself, but because one of my players loves to roll dice. I never know which roll applies because he's constantly rolling dice, so I told him and instituted it as a house rule that you don't role for something until I call fo it. Anything beforehand is void.
When you're making an Adventure, remember to ask, "WWMPD" (What Would My Player's Do?) Then tailor your adventure around that.
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Aladdar Nov 29 2005, 03:14 PM Post #5
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I have a bad habit of fiddling with my dice while gaming, especially when I'm bored. As such, the numbers are already coming off my dice. Damn cheap wotc dice.
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Vacerious Nov 29 2005, 05:32 PM Post #6
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i don't know if anyone else here has seen it, but i believe my suggestion on that thread was a pretty good one. yeah, its cruel, but you know, you've gotta get the jackass outta your system somehow.

but seriously, why didn't this guy talk to the problem player when the problem first appeared. its against all common sense to let anything like that occur for even one session. personally, that guy dug his own grave in that situation.

my only wish is that i could be there with a camcorder when he finally gets fed up with her cheating and calls her out on it.

and before anyone says anything, i'm already aware that i can sometimes be an
:ass: , but i'm a teenager, and hence, i solely put the blame on my raging hormones. one minute, you're angry, the next, you're sad, and the next, you're horny. it's hell.
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It's not that I'm racist, sexist, or whatever. I'm just extremely allergic to idiots, and if your race/gender/(homo)sexual preference happens to contain a lot of idiots, then that's YOUR problem.
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kismetrose Nov 30 2005, 02:19 AM Post #7
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i'm a teenager, and hence, i solely put the blame on my raging hormones. one minute, you're angry, the next, you're sad, and the next, you're horny. it's hell.

Ooohhh, I remember. Gotta say that my early twenties were oh so much more enjoyable.
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Valefor Nov 30 2005, 11:25 AM Post #8
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From what I remember of being a teenager, I never got past the "I'm horny" part. I might have been happy, sad, mad, but the "I'm horny" never really turned off until I was 23, 24.
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Fixxxer Nov 30 2005, 12:26 PM Post #9
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Nov 30 2005, 01:25 PM
From what I remember of being a teenager, I never got past the "I'm horny" part. I might have been happy, sad, mad, but the "I'm horny" never really turned off until I was 23, 24.

I'm working on 28 and it still hasn't gone away. God willing, it never will.
In my mind, it is that simple. But then, I'm simple minded. -Didge-
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Didge Nov 30 2005, 12:55 PM Post #10
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Valefor
 

From what I remember of being a teenager, I never got past the "I'm horny" part. I might have been happy, sad, mad, but the "I'm horny" never really turned off until I was 23, 24. 

Fix
 
I'm working on 28 and it still hasn't gone away. God willing, it never will.


I'm 30 now and mine has been steadily increasing. My girlfriend seems to think I'm on viagra or something. I've told her, on average a guy thinks about sex every 5-6 seconds. I'm well above the average, as I think about sex (or some reference to it) every nanosecond or so. I just am very good at refraining from those desires and impulses. My girlfriend long ago stopped asking me, "What are you thinking about?" Because invariably it was always something to do with sex.
When you're making an Adventure, remember to ask, "WWMPD" (What Would My Player's Do?) Then tailor your adventure around that.
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Fixxxer Nov 30 2005, 03:05 PM Post #11
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Didge
Nov 30 2005, 02:55 PM
My girlfriend long ago stopped asking me, "What are you thinking about?" Because invariably it was always something to do with sex.

Here's a tip for all you young guys out there. The correct answer to this question is not "What your sister looks like naked."
In my mind, it is that simple. But then, I'm simple minded. -Didge-
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kismetrose Nov 30 2005, 03:29 PM Post #12
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Fixxxer
Nov 30 2005, 03:05 PM
Here's a tip for all you young guys out there. The correct answer to this question is not "What your sister looks like naked."

Yet another reason why I'm glad I'm an only child. :D
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Aladdar Nov 30 2005, 03:38 PM Post #13
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lol, The one thing women always say that they want out of a man in a relationship is honesty.

"Oh if I could just find one man who would be honest, tell me what is truly on his mind and not lie to me I'd be in Heaven."

Well I call bullshit. If you truly wanted honesty you wouldn't ask us bullshit questions like, "Does this dress make me look fat?" Because the honest answer is, "No babe, the dress doesn't make you look fat, I think that is your huge ass, and that humongous gut doesn't help any."

But the answer women want is, "Oh of course not babe, you couldn't get any more beautiful if you were a Goddess."

And I guarantee you there's not one woman who really wants to know what I'm thinking.

"Hmmm, well I was thinking how much fun it would be to get you naked, bring out the motor oil, and invite all your hot friends over."
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Valefor Nov 30 2005, 04:03 PM Post #14
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I love when a woman says "It's not that he did "insert major fuck up here", it's that he lied to me about it"! I love that line. Like any woman is going to feel any better if you said "Oh by the way, I had a sex sandwich with your sister, your mom, and the dog. But I wanted to be honest about it.
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kismetrose Nov 30 2005, 04:11 PM Post #15
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We all have pleasant fictions that we want to hear as if they were truths, calling those fictions "honesty" - men included.

As far as I can recall (and that's not saying much at this point in finals crunch time), I've heard more women insist on honesty from men than men from women. Then again, most of those women had been lied to in major fashions by men in their lives and didn't want that to keep happening. Men who have been lied to in ways that hurt can end up feeling the same way.

The older I get, the more I wish for a selective sort of honesty. I try (try, mind you, I'm not sure if I succeed) to avoid asking if I look fat in anything; I know my weight, I have eyes. I try to ask if a person thinks I look all right in what I'm wearing instead so that they don't have to pretend to be scale.

But more importantly, whatever folks say, I expect to be addressed with some politeness. When someone asks me if they look good in something, I'm polite, even if I'm delivering a little white lie or a slight exaggeration. I don't poke holes in folks by telling them their huge asses make them look fat or whatnot. And anyone who talks to me that way won't be talking to me for long.

But I can see that this thread is going the way of testosterone so I'm gonna bow out from here. :)
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