| Is it cheating? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 11 2005, 11:02 PM (695 Views) | |
| Jagyr Ebonwood | Oct 12 2005, 03:40 PM Post #16 |
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Ritual Partaker
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What's important here is that they fail to see the difference between "imagining another person" and "imagining a person who's imagining another imagined person." If my character flirting with an NPC is cheating on my girlfriend, then my character having an ale at the pub is breaking my own vow of not imbibing. Say I was a member of a religion that fasts during a certain week. If my character eats at the inn during that week's session, am I a blasphemer? Playing a PC is often (accurately, I believe) compared to writing a story. If I write a scene in which the main character (and let's assume it's written in the first person) imagines a beautiful woman who is not my girlfriend...am I cheating on her? |
| "Yea, and word unto thee. Pray, money, art thou down with OPP? Verilly thus? For I desire to do the nasty with thine ho, as I tire of doing mine own ho in mine own crib, a most fly one at that." -Fixxxer | |
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| Didge | Oct 12 2005, 04:48 PM Post #17 |
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Residential Alaskan Igloo & Walrus Inspector
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Sign me UP!
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| When you're making an Adventure, remember to ask, "WWMPD" (What Would My Player's Do?) Then tailor your adventure around that. | |
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| Fixxxer | Oct 12 2005, 09:45 PM Post #18 |
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Alcoholic Homosexual Giraffe
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I'd even go beyond that and say that many people that actively forbid their lovers from imagining other people are simply fucking crazy. It's virtually impossible not to imagine things, sexual in nature or not. You see a guy walking down the street with a limp and your mind immediately brings to mind a myriad of ways he could have gotten that limp. In your mind, you see him getting hit by a car, falling down a manhole, dropping an anvil on his foot and Tonya Harding whacking him with a club. This is all before you even blink. I find it hard to believe that the same doesn't apply to sexual situations for most people. She tells him not to fantasize because it's cheating, but as soon as she sees that Guess Jeans ad, her mind is literally unable to not think about the guy she sees in some sort of sexually-related way. It would be the same with a guy and Victoria's Secret. At the end of the day, not wanting your lover to imagine other people in potentially sexual situations is hypocracy at its worst. |
| In my mind, it is that simple. But then, I'm simple minded. -Didge- | |
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| Cantankerous | Oct 12 2005, 10:24 PM Post #19 |
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Habitual Offender
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Yea Gods, yes they do. That is how it started with my first wife and I and her friend Tina. I didn't hear the beginning of the conversation, but as direct as Tina was she probably did just say something like Fixxxer stated. And knowing my first wife, her response was probably. "Ok, now shuck those jeans." I was a very bad influence on her. But it was fun. Isshia |
| For example, the crucifix. While it has been a time honored symbol of our faith, Holy Mother Church has decided to retire this highly recognizable, yet wholly depressing image of our Lord crucified. ... And it is with that take on our Lord in mind that we've come up with a new, more inspiring sigil. ...I give you... The Buddy Christ. Now that's not the sanctioned term we're using for the symbol, just something we've been kicking around the office, but look at it. Doesn't it... pop? Buddy Christ. | |
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| Freston | Oct 13 2005, 03:31 PM Post #20 |
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Guild of Necromancers: Give us your hungry, your sick, your cold
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Of all the vices, jealausy is probably the worst because it has no pleasureble desire to count as an excuse. That said, one judges other peoples characters by one's own. The main reason my last relation broke up was because my girlfriend wanted all of my attention. She wasn't jealaus of any flirting during gaming (I started another thread on that for the lack of flirting in my games). She was jealous of the gaming itself. No, she didn't want to join. But she thought that once a week was taking to much time out of our relationship. That, along with the fact that I go to the pub every other week while we both worked scheduels made so jealaus. ANGER At first it wasn't really a problem, because when you're in love you want nothing but to be with the other. But as time went I started expressing my desire to do the things I used to do, and see the people I used to see. She really crossed the line then. She said I was immature, not ready to commit to a serious relationship. And besides, I didn't NEED my friends ANYMORE, because I had her.... Well, I said, it just so happens that I like my friends, and I like my hobbies, and I want to go through with them, despite being in a serious relationship. Of course I asked if she wanted to come with me. But she didn't. Long story short, if someones understanding of a relationship involves tie down your partner, I'm out. Oh, according to her, this was because I was a man (and I still am) so I couldn't see the reason why we should see each other and nobody else. .... Damn, this is so depressing. Now that we tell each other to much in this thread, this has been like this in every single meaningfull relationship in my life. But the one before that (the one I was married to) turned out to be suicidal. She claimed to be autistic, then she claimed to be schizofrenic, and then she claimed to have the borderline personality disorder. And although I work in a mental hospital, I never recognised any signs untill we got married. Just a tip for anyone getting married, pay close attention to the person from the registry-office conducting the ceremony. He reads you your rights, and should be able to answer all of your questions beforehand. This is important because marriage is the worst organised institution known to man. There is no guidelines for division of labour, no independend counsil to solve your differences, and no supervisor to call when your wife is hysterical, has just shred her clothes to pieces and is now yelling she is going to kill herself. Having supported my wife untill I reached the point of a nervous brakedown, I really wasn't ready to be accused of being immature and thus lacking both dedication and commitment. The whole experience has thought me the value of friendship (don't ever turn your back on your friends because your in a relationship), but also how important it is to be able to just be happy in a relation. I don't believe in the romantic picture of a man and a woman spending the rest of their lives together, no mather what. To return to my opening, I feel that trust should be absolute in a relationship. My last girlfriend wondered why I wasn't jeasaus when she got attention from other men. My response used to be: if you wanted to tour with a rugby-team, I'd still trust you. Because without this trust, I'd feel this relation has no meaning. I hate it when I feel restrained because others don't trust me. And if the other is my girlfriend, well, that tops it all. So, two things remain. First, no I don't think in-game flirting is cheating. And second, I did not use my dictionary today. Because I'm lazy. |
| said the fool, and he showed his suntanned teeth. | |
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| blufrogz37 | Oct 13 2005, 06:46 PM Post #21 |
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Habitual Offender
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Bet you all waited to hear more... Well "Ding-Ding" : In this corner... "...Cheating..." I can honestly say I have had more of this type of experience in White Wolf games, ala Vampire & Mage... as such it got so bad in a couple of Mage sessions that my wife and I tried Mage and abruptly stopped playing (No, I don't want to know what you and your Husband do when you're alone, in the bedroom...and my wife doesn't feel comfortable playing out a Storytellers psycho sex fantasy after meeting and playing only twice with new people...Mage ended badly for us, we never touched that system again. In Vampire some gamers just have these outrageous ideas, things they might not EVER do in real life, but hey : "Its Vampire! So its Sexy & Erotic and I wanna be BAD! ... I can honestly say playing Vampire, It never got me laid, at all. But I played Vampire differently as a Storyteller, and If somebody wasn't geling with the troupe, they got cut loose. Simple as that. Round my neck of the woods I have more trouble defending my hobby to the "Never-Played, But-Its-Satanic-and-your-going-to-Burn" crowd, that I really don't have the energy to deal with Munchkins and their ilk. In D&D I play ALOT of parts...Thats part of my description...I play everybody that the players don't. I have a tremendous responsibility to my players... all of my players, to not freak them out, make them uncomfortable, or cross their boundries in a mean, hurtful, or spiteful way... Granted, It would be great If everyone could open up and identify those things that make us unsure, or uneasy in a gaming situation...but sometimes that never happens. ... I too have been in awkward gaming situations with players, both Male & Female, But you have to know where each boundry line is, have too. Its that important. Everybody likes to believe as players that "what happens at the table stays at the table"...a large part of the time it does. Have I been offered sex on the side? sure. And 99% of the time I have walked away from the offer.. I was in a bad situation too, like what was posted earlier...but I got it together, and haven't strayed since. I have been happily married 6 years...I don't cheat. My characters might, and as I am a some fraction of my characters - if its uncomfortable for anyone at my table, I tone it way down, or I put a stop to it completely. I am a Friend first, DM second. I want my players to have a long-term good time at my games... not drive them away. Maybe the Girlfriend didn't -for whatever reason understand that, and looked at it as "cheating." Was the situation ever discussed away from the gaming table...perhaps on a completely seperate night, in a neutral environment? Especially when it comes to non-gamers, they might just want to re-assured. Or maybe, they just can't handle the idea, and label it "Cheating" as a defense mechanism. I'm not a therapist...I work in a Hobby Shop. -Lar |
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| Aladdar | Oct 14 2005, 07:41 AM Post #22 |
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There Is No Member, Only Zule
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The problems is that while many people are mature enough to realize that what happens in game happens only in game, many others are not. I have a friend who's wife/girlfriend/whatever they are started playing EQ together. It started out nice, eventually she met a guy in their guild and decided to roleplay a relationship, they roleplayed a marriage eventually in the game. My friend didn't like it cause if she was going to roleplay a relationship, he wanted it to be with his character. Eventually the roleplaying moved to avenues outside the game with phone calls and e-mails. She claimed they were still only roleplaying. Well when he found her looking at plane tickets for where he lived he kicked her out. to some people, roleplaying is just another way of having a relationship because they aren't socially able to do it in real life and find it easier in character life. I've seen it happen more than once, and it would be much easier to do in a table top game than online. Frankly, I leave my characters sexual orientation, relationships, etc... out of the game. For all intents and purposes, my characters are asexual. I play the game for the adventure and mystery, and find that building sexual relationships in the game really just gets in the way of the game. |
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"Love makes the world go round. And has been known to provide a +2 circumstance to certain skill checks." The D&D Archive Forums
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| DaveReaves | Oct 14 2005, 11:22 AM Post #23 |
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Can't believe its not butter
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I was actually not aware this was a big a problem as it seems to be. Its as if everyone has a story to tell about love or lust forged in the fires of gaming. Perhaps there is more to it than I thought. As far as "Is it cheating" is concerned I'm guessing its going to depend on the individual. I, for instance, understand that what happens in Grayhawk stays in Grayhawk. Its a game, and I would no more expect someone who roleplayed attraction to my character to have a thing for me in real life than I would expect a character who killed me in the game to swing pointy objects at me. It has become apparent though the stories told here that not everyone has the same view as me. Some people obviously do think that roleplayed flirting is the same as the real thing, and mutual roleplayed attraction can indeed bring two people together. Its going to be up to those in committed relationships to decide if this is something either party feels uncomfortable with, be the reason for discomfort personal experience with the situation or any other reason. If someone you care about has a problem with you having imaginary sex on graph paper, is it that hard to stop? Its not worth ruining a relationship over. Everyone is going to have a different view on what their partner should and should not do, be it sleep with other people, look at porn or roleplay a love interest with someone else in a game. Whatever they call "cheating" its obviously bad and you should not do it if you want to keep them in your life. |
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| kismetrose | Oct 14 2005, 12:47 PM Post #24 |
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A lot of folks are the same way. There are also a lot of folks who want sex in the game if only so they can roleplay it through, or otherwise get their jollies off of it. Then there are the people who want to keep sexuality in the game because it can enrich the gaming world - but those are the folks who want to use it carefully. I have noticed that people who get carried away in gaming relationships tend to have very troubled relationships back at home. They could just as well have picked up in a bar, except that roleplaying grants them a sense of emotional intimacy and a greater sense of knowledge. |
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Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB | |
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| Fixxxer | Oct 15 2005, 12:04 AM Post #25 |
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Alcoholic Homosexual Giraffe
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And a feasible fallback. You can always claim that roleplaying is just that...roleplaying. However, if you get caught in a bar trying to pick someone up, that's obviously not innocent and can't easily be explained away. I'd even go so far as to say that within their own heads, this helps many people explain things to themselves. They're actively pursuing a relationship with someone, but they can justify it with themselves because "it's only a game." That is, right up until it ceases to be a game. |
| In my mind, it is that simple. But then, I'm simple minded. -Didge- | |
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| Aladdar | Oct 15 2005, 05:58 AM Post #26 |
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There Is No Member, Only Zule
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It's the same as people who start affairs online. They justify it to themselves that the other person is only a friend, never mind the fact they're talking about private intimate moments. They're only friends right up until that point that they meet and fuck. |
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"Love makes the world go round. And has been known to provide a +2 circumstance to certain skill checks." The D&D Archive Forums
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| Mordien | Oct 15 2005, 07:41 AM Post #27 |
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Old
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Well Fixxer se it this way .its not so costly (in Money ) to start a Relationship in a roleplying game
Then agin serioulsy this i a very sensitive subjet and not all are capable of coping with this in a roleplaying game. And some times maby people outside of game may react but then well... thats another story |
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All warfare is based on Deception MORDIEN | |
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| Lawless | Dec 1 2005, 02:43 PM Post #28 |
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Member Incognito
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Wow what a topic, new to these board. Hello all. Anyway I have to agree first with Kismetrose, Vampire gets you laid. I have never seen a real orgy until I played Vampire, 3rd session. I was always interested in the game and found a group of kids (8 of them), I call them kids because at the time I was making my to 30, and they were in the mid to late teens. Anyway I think it the 'sexy vampire allure' that people really get into not being themselves. Back to the story, the first couple of sessions everybody flirted heavily (no alcohol involved), but by far more so than I've ever seen in D&D (which I had been playing for 10+ years at that point). Two of the girls had flash their boobs the first time. Next session one of them spent the entire time topless, while another made out with one of the guys (not her boyfriend). Session , not an hour into it people were slapping uglies. I had to leave. While what is league in this state is legal, it didn't quite mesh with my moral compass.
I ran into a couple of the players since then and they basicly play that vampires have no humanity as it is and aren't disturbed by having sex with people at the drop of a hat. The swap during sessions, those who are dating, and out of sessions I think they've crossdated. As I said early nothing remotely like that has happened in D&D. Of all the groups I've played in only 4 females have played, one wife for one session, one girlfriend for two sessions, my fiance's daughter for about 5 sessions, and one single gamer off and on for five years. Nothing remotely like that has happened in D&D in my experiences, in fact while we're not Disney minded, we've bare scratched at the 'Basic Instinct' level of sex play in our sessions. OK now to the thread in general. I've experienced the jealous SO. My fiance was a little jealous, no actual arguments or anything but there were questions, about the one female gamer in the group. Partly because she never met her, even though the gamer came before the fiance, so I guess that's to be expected. My best friend was less than thrilled when the 'Basic Instinct' level of play was introduced into the game, (yes by me). She debated the appropriateness of it while I said it was 5 guys sitting around a table BS'ing in game, (female gamer wasn't playing at that time), which me and my friend did anyway just hanging out drinking beer . Then the friend with the girlfriend snapped at me because my womanizing human rogue looked at his gf's elf ranger and said "How you doin'?" (picture Joey from 'Friends').
Now 5 years into a stable relationship my fiance's far more trusting in fact she's taking to calling me a boyscout, <_< when we first met she thought I was a playa, it was the t-shirts and muscles, before I developed a beer gut. |
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| Fixxxer | Dec 1 2005, 11:41 PM Post #29 |
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Alcoholic Homosexual Giraffe
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Sounds to me like they didn't want to play the game so much as they wanted to have sex with each other. It's probable that the game was little more than a moral scapegoat. If they met up at a hotel and fucked each other, that's cheating, but all manner of ludeness and debauchery can happen during the game because that's not cheating...that's roleplaying. |
| In my mind, it is that simple. But then, I'm simple minded. -Didge- | |
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| kismetrose | Dec 2 2005, 12:07 AM Post #30 |
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And don't forget, Fixxxer, Lawless said the folks were teenagers. It's not like teens need an excuse to have sex or to be experimental. |
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Kismet's D&D - WoD - SG-1 - FB | |
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. Then the friend with the girlfriend snapped at me because my womanizing human rogue looked at his gf's elf ranger and said "How you doin'?" (picture Joey from 'Friends').

5:39 PM Jul 10