| Vik animal abuse case; thoughts | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 23 2007, 02:24 PM (349 Views) | |
| Dominic Guglieme | Jul 23 2007, 02:24 PM Post #1 |
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the human MICROscope!!
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Reprinted here is the letter I sent to the Falcons. I apologize for the tone, as some of my regional biases do come through. ------ I am going to say it once. Fire him. Now, I like dogs. People who abuse animals for recreational purposes are akin to cancer. As a life-long resident of the Massachusetts, I have more than a little prejudice for the southern part of this country. But, if I want to sell you on the idea of firing Vik the Vermin, I need to be rational, so here goes. It is in your interest to fire Vik. Frankly, we both know that most football fans are the mental and moral equivalent of children. They likely do not care about what Vik did. They probably think it is "kewl". And, most of them are not smart enough to remember this for more than a week. But, Vik is a liability to your business. A capacity for brutishness is well and good for a athlete to have. They are not paid to think. But, a proven habit for recreational brutality is quite another. Vik was not just weaponizing animals. He was going out of his way to torture them. Hanging and electrocution are more elaborate ways to kill than one might think. One has to work to set that sort of thing up. In other words, Vik has an objective penchant for this kind of thing. You, as his employer, as liable for what he does while he is working for you. For all that can go awry on the football field, for all the occasion there is for somebody to be hurt, or to hurt someone else, would you trust a man like Vik to represent your interests? In recent interviews, he has come across as arrogant. He seems to think he is beyond conventional rules, legal and otherwise. What happens if he puts that ethic into practice at a local nightclub?. People may think it is all in fun that he kills dogs. But, they likely will take a reflexive offense to him harming people. Granted, most of your fans are not capable of complex moral reasoning, and thus will be unable to say why they do not like it, but they will not like it. And, that may harm your business. Put simply, Vik is a liability and is more likely to hurt your business than help it. Given the nature of your business, and your location, I do not think much of your capacity for moral reasoning, nor of your ability to think beyond yourself. But, I am saying it is in your own interest to fire Vik. Dom -sincerely hoping that your intellect is more advanced than Vik's. -------------------------- Put simply, I hold Vik and his ilk in utter disdain. I am not a "sanctity of life" adherent. I think Daoism and Buddhism are morally and intellectually bankrupt. Even taking into account my fondness for dogs, I take a sensible middle ground. In other words, while I do not see life as an intrinsic good, nor suffering as an intrinsic evil, I have no regard for thos who misuse what power they have. I am a pragmatist. There are examples in history when brutality was fully justified and necessary. (The siege by Damascus at Hama in '82 comes to mind. The Soviet defense of Stalingrad, and subsequent taking of Berlin during WWII being another example.) There are times when a bit more brutality may have saved lives and resources in the long run. (Perhaps, Czar Nicholas should have followed his father's example sooner, kept a tighter leash on his subordinates and subjects, and mayber he could have prevented the Russian Revolution. Had the allies castracted Germany sooner, how many lives would have been saved in World War II?) Power shoudl be used benignly, not according to petty whims. Violence is a tool, and one that sometimes need be used. But, it should not be used lightly or recreationally, if only to preserve a sense of priority and perspective. (In other words, by only using it when needed, it will be easier for all of us to recognize when it is needed.) Vik has been quoted in the media as saying that the people "still love" him. In other words, as he sees it, he has influence. Despite having influence over hoardes of rabble, and absolute control over his animals, Vik lacks the intelligence to use that power for anything other than the same entertainment used by the Romans. In other words, if we were to send Vik back to the Dark Ages, he would be a cultural throw-back even then. Despite the power and influence at his disposal, Vik was too stupid to use it in anyway but the stupidest and least imaginative. I really do not care why Vik did what he did. Arguing causation is just a shabby way to deflect questions about the status quo. I outline the practical reasons for firing Vik above. In moral terms, I think the best punishment for him would be humiliation of being fired. Most of the fanbase in this case will probably forget Vik and his crimes quickly enough, if he is removed fromt he public eye. As a punishment for Vik, that is probably as bad as it will get. But, part of me sees a window of opportunity here. If Vik can be publicly humiliated severely enough, then perhaps enough of the rabble will assume what he did was wrong, making recreational animal abuse less acceptable. |
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Keep it local. The healthiest leper in the colony is still very very sick. www.theanimalrescuesite.com | |
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| Superiorraw | Jul 25 2007, 09:21 AM Post #2 |
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I was just reading up on this, reports on the sports channel claim: "Vick has been instructed not to return to pre-season training until the matter is resolved" Also it should be noted the Atlanta Falcons released this in their public statement: "Obviously, we are disturbed by today’s news from Virginia. However, we are prepared to deal with it, and we will do the right thing for our club as the legal process plays out. We have a season to prepare for and training camp opens next week." I'm pretty sure that if the player is convicted then he won't be playing for the Falcon's any time in the new season. Theres something that irritates me about people like him, it's over arrogance and the thought that he's been put in a situation he himself can control. He's a pro football player with the ability to entertain the fan base at the club, he jeopordises this with a barbaric, cruel and degrading out of time sport against dogs for his own entertainment. Nobody forced vick to be a pro-footballer.. i take it he liked the game and chose to be the person he is. However forcing dogs to attack each other and training them to be killers against their own breed is not acceptable. I always feel that a good sports personality will be successfull off the field and on it too. Kids idolise sports players and they will tolerate just about anything that they are told. However I can assure you their will be alot of people worldwide who will see this news and turn their back on him. I could very much understand if he'd used his time and money productively to train dogs for breeding or competitions in showcase (crufts) but this is a far cry from anything in this league. It sounds like Vick is arrogant, either that or he was incredibly stupid.. he obviously got some sort of kick out of running this sport underground and I think if found guilty he should be penalised to the maximum of the law (whatever this is) sky sports says a minimum of 6 years. Rich |
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| Dominic Guglieme | Jul 27 2007, 02:15 PM Post #3 |
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the human MICROscope!!
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If Vik is convicted, he is going to jail, so yeah, he will be off the team. But, if he is not convicted, I doubt he will suffer any real sanction from the team. Sadly, I think that dog-fighting will probably make him look "kewler" to most fans. And, until he snaps on the field, the team will indulge Vik's excesses. Of course, was we learned with Mike Tyson. the "bad boys" usually become "bad sports" if they have the chance. |
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Keep it local. The healthiest leper in the colony is still very very sick. www.theanimalrescuesite.com | |
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| tarz_an2003 | Jul 27 2007, 05:04 PM Post #4 |
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Anime in Motion
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Dominic, I hate to say it but I feel sort of insulted by your letter, being that I'm a huge football fan of the all-too-popular American sport. I definitely know where you're coming from though with your view and take on this, but to state what you did was simply referring to the overall fan base as being adolescents who can't comprehend anything beyond a child's mind set. Of course, I'll agree in saying that the athletes and many who represent their respective sports are sometimes not very good ambassadors of their sports, getting caught up with the poor choices they've made in their life, have... especially as of late, have not represented themselves very well and the sports they play in general and as a whole. And considering football is this country's biggest prime time sport now-a-days too, but WE have to remember here that we're dealing with human beings, athletes, celebrities, big-time political figures are of no different that you or I, and I'm speaking as human beings, not what they earn... Your conception of the fan base and athletes is severely skewed and misconceived, my friend. And like I said before, I don't have anything against you... it's your statements that you've made which seem a bit brash and harsh, considering that you can't just single any one athlete or fan out, but instead as a whole... so which again validates what I'm talking about... For now, I'm going to reserve my thoughts and opinions on Michael Vick and what he's being indicted for... until the facts and truth come into the light. But until then, I really don't know what to say as this all has been shocking to me and while being horrific and utterly atrocious... Sincerely, An |
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| Dominic Guglieme | Jul 27 2007, 05:15 PM Post #5 |
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the human MICROscope!!
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Okay, two things. First, I know I mispelled Vick's name it the above post. My bad. Second, I apologize for my harshly stated views. Generally, I do not put much faith in any large group of people, sports fans or otherwise. When it comes to popular perception and selling ideas, I tend to assume people as a whole are not very bright. If Jim or Cyn want to edit the post, that is fine. But, I am honest enough to leave it as is, warts and all. That being said, I agree that athletes should not be held to a higher moral standard than anyone else. (I stand by my low opinion of them.) But, I would want to see anyone punished for what Vick is alleged to have done. Public officials on the other hand should be held to a higher standard. The responsiblities they hold should not be taken lightly. And, here is an expansion on my thoughts above. Dan Wetzel, from yahoo sports posted an article dealing with that albatross of an issue, race. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-v...=yhoo&type=lgns Wetzel notes that their seems to be a substantive relationship between race and how people are reactiong to Michael Vick. Whites tend to be calling for Vick to be punished. Blacks seem to be calling for Vick to be convicted before his is punished. I really despise race as an issue. I like to think that most adults are capable of judging each other on a less superficial basis. But, the more I see stories like Wetzel's, the harder it is for me to pretend otherwise. Objectively, when I study Political Science (either formally, or informally), I notice (and often decry) a tendency for people to focus on minutia rather than substantive issues. In that sense, people obsessing over race makes sense. If one is going to draw a conclusion from what Wetzel wrote, there are two racially charged possibilities.. Case 1: Whites are more humane than blacks. They want to see a man such as Vick punished for what he has done. Blacks are shallow, seeing Vick's race as more important than what he has been accussed of. Case 2: Whites are impulsive and as blood-thirsty as Vick is alleged to be. They hear an accusation, and go with their first emotional reaction. Blacks are more sober, and understand that we have laws requiring jury trials to prevent hasty and undo punishments. I tend to think that the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Many blacks, like most people of any race, are a bit biased towards the folks what look like them. I have seen enough of this in the news, and in my day to day life, to discount it completely. I do not think much of it, or people who are excessively given to it, but it is there. And, whites, like many people, are prone to irrational behavior, especially in large groups. (Rabble of any ethnic stripe should probably be distrusted. Populism is a nice word for "mobocracy".) I confess to assuming the Vick is guilty. This has nothing to do with him being black. But, the accusation does not strike me as something that would be "drummed up" for no reason. If he is guilty, I think Vick should be punished and humiliated. (What biases on I do have in this case are idealogical and regional. Not that either is more excusable than racism.) But, there is a legitimate need for a trial. An accusation should not be a conviction, in this or any other case. When Scooter Libby (a white man) was accused of leaking a CIA agent's name to the press, my initial reaction was that he should be shot for treason. But, I did see the need for a trial. (And, as it turns out that while Libby arguably committed purgery, he was not the leaker. This begs the question of why Richard Armitage has not yet been tried and executed, but that is another set of problems.) I was as happy to see Slobodan (really white guy) Milosovic in the dock at the Hague as anyone. And, I hope Chuck Taylor (a black guy) and his cronies get theirs. Of course, I have seen evidence of bias. The infamous Rodney kind case presents examples that damn both whites and blacks. Members of the LAPD where quoted as having used ethnic slurs, including "nigger". (Yes, I dropped an "n-bomb", deal with it.) And, yes, those officers should have been punished, swiftly, publicly, and brutally. But, their guild of one offense should not have impacted the question of their alleged brutality when dealing with King. King was strung out, and violent. Objectively, the officers acted reasonably when subduing him. The two questions became conflated, and race seemed to be more important to people (regardless of their ethnicity) than objective fact. The officers should have been punished for one offense, King for another. I really hope that there are more people like me than what the Wetzel article would indicate. Hell, I still hold out a (rather prejudiced) that the racial over-tones Wetzel writes about have more to do with innate regional stupidity than something natural to most people. Of course, I objectively recognize this as a delusion, however comforting it may be. |
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Keep it local. The healthiest leper in the colony is still very very sick. www.theanimalrescuesite.com | |
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| tarz_an2003 | Jul 27 2007, 05:26 PM Post #6 |
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Anime in Motion
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Dominic, I can whole-heartedly agree with you case in point. You hit the damn nail on the head on that one dude and I can totally vouch, as I've seen and completely agree with WHITE and BLACKS "reactions" to any given situation, especially something as big as a federal indictment or for anything that involves the U.S. courts for that matter... But I like you, which you've more clearly now have stated... I will await to see what happens in this case before laying down my thoughts and judgement of what kind of person Michael Vick is. Again, with all due respect to our father up in Heaven, up above... I still don't have the right or authority on placing judgment on those among us so I'll refrain from any and let this case carry out it's natural course. And for the record, I'd like to think I'm a competent and fairly level-headed person who can actually think for myself without getting caught up in the crowd. I know what I know, and see what I see aside from what everyone else or society as a whole sees... hehe And for kicks, 2+2 is 5!! ! LOL (that one's for you Dominic) -An |
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| Dominic Guglieme | Jul 27 2007, 05:49 PM Post #7 |
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the human MICROscope!!
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Well, since we opened the race can of worms, why not religion? [grabs can opener] I am agnostic. I do not rule out the existence of any god. But, until I see something a bit more tangible, I am going to assume we (as civilized people) have a responsiblity for our own affairs. At that point the question become one of preference. It is better to be lax in assuming someone else will handle the tricky moral questions, or to possibly be too aggressive in assuming powers that are not one's own? For now, I will assume powers that nobody else has actively claimed. If nothing else, how annoyed would you be (as an omnipotent being) if your creations were incapable of running their affairs? |
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Keep it local. The healthiest leper in the colony is still very very sick. www.theanimalrescuesite.com | |
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| Viper Commander | Aug 21 2007, 10:13 AM Post #8 |
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Unregistered
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Well, now we can throw alleged out of the window when speaking of Vick and his guilt. All I want to say is, only a mentally challenged person would throw away a $100+ million career to satisfy his sadistic desires. He might have been a QB, the only thing he'll be in the joint is a "wide receiver". :bigmoon: |
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| Dominic Guglieme | Aug 21 2007, 12:19 PM Post #9 |
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the human MICROscope!!
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He will go down for a few years at most. And, I guarantee the prison that gets him will take care of him. Can you imagine the bad press if something happens to him? Granted, most people will not care. But, the prospect for liability, and protest groups complaining of "unsafe conditions" in the prison....... I would call Vick a "degenerate" more than "mentally challenged". |
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Keep it local. The healthiest leper in the colony is still very very sick. www.theanimalrescuesite.com | |
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| Superiorraw | Aug 21 2007, 07:35 PM Post #10 |
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I actually don't think vick is mentally unstable to throw away a $100 million career he's just arrogant, callous and a complete goit. He should have a full suspension on a license of never owning animals ever again added to his jail term. Rich |
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| Dominic Guglieme | Aug 22 2007, 12:01 PM Post #11 |
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the human MICROscope!!
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Like with anything else, licenses only work to a point. I have seen people drive and own fire arms without a license. Dogs without licenses are even more common. An unlicenses breeder can supply plenty of puppies. |
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Keep it local. The healthiest leper in the colony is still very very sick. www.theanimalrescuesite.com | |
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| Viper Commander | Dec 10 2007, 07:22 PM Post #12 |
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Unregistered
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The aftermath of the Vick case, detailing his behaviore after deciding to plead guilty up to sentencing. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-v...=yhoo&type=lgns |
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