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Could Yahoo News get any more fucking stupid?
Topic Started: Jan 12 2010, 04:58 PM (680 Views)
Syxx
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They're running a new long article about how the Vatican is against Avatar:

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap.org/vatican-says-avatar-no-masterpiece-ap

I mean for fucking real? Does anyone say "Oh I need to check with the pope first before I decide what movie to see." The people running this religion need to either accept the fact that its no longer relevant to the mainstream world or just close its doors already. The fact that we have all these Catholic religious figures telling us how to run our country and even what to watch for entertainment is ridiculous. If they want to try to influence stuff so much over here they should start paying us taxes.

I also think Yahoo has a vendetta against Avatar since this the third anti-Avatar story they've ran on their front page. Could there be some kind of corporate motivation perhaps? I think they just need to accept the fact that the movie rocks and deal with it being the mos successful film of all time (in about two weeks). No one gives a fuck that religious nutjobs or whiney conservatives don't like it because it's pro-environment and anti-war, although they keep beating that drum in their articles. This shit is like something from Fox News, although I bet Fox isn't running anti-Avatar stories for obvious reasons.

I wouldn't visit yahoo anymore if I didn't have e-mail there. I wish I could switch to g-mail but it would be too much of a pain in the ass.

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J-Syxx
Jan 12 2010, 04:58 PM
1. Does anyone say "Oh I need to check with the pope first before I decide what movie to see."

2. I think they just need to accept the fact that the movie rocks.
1. Sadly, yes, people like this do exist. They cry about how "Sabrina The Teenage Witch" promotes Wicca and will not let their kids see it. Also they think magic is the devil.

2. We watched the same movie right? The one with really pretty special effects and a really James Cameron getting on his obvious soapbox to bitch about how we should all save the planet AND the Iraq war?

Seriously. That's all I got out of it. It's not that I don't agree, I just don't watch movies to be preached at.

Also, either Yahoo! is slow on this, or my god, it took the Vatican WAY TOO LONG to say something about this movie. Usually their quite quick about tearing into things that they perceived as anti-Catholic.

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And 4Chan told Devin that anyone who likes Avatar is a furry. From personal experience, it's at least 50% true.
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Syxx
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Seriously. That's all I got out of it. It's not that I don't agree, I just don't watch movies to be preached at.


The movie didn't preach at you. Preach at you to do what exactly? Are you developing land or something? Yeah there was an environmentalism theme, but why would you get mad about that if you didn't disagree with it?

And it wasn't about the Iraq war. Do you think the Iraq war was the only time something like this occurred? I mean there was 500 years of colonilaism where basically the same thing happened over and over again, and people are up in the arms because they think it criticized George Bush. Even if it did, I like how people don't want modern art to reference anything in modern times. The whole movies can't be political thing to me is part of the dumbing down of America and the watering down of film into something flavorless and non-artistic

And honestly I think the American public needs a film like this right now. A lot of dumb asses elected Bush twice, if they are stupid enough to be swayed by non-direct allegory in a movie than great. Who cares? Does this make me some kind of elitist douche bag or something? Maybe. But it'll be less funny for those people living on the coastlines when they have to move their homes inland due to us fucking up everything. God forbid a movie tells us we shouldn't destroy the enviornment.

Yeah, I saw that script already and it's still not witty. There are so many plot constructions you can do, eventually there will be similar ones. I really doubt James Cameron made this film because he's such a huge fan of Pocahontas or Dancing With Wolves. Note they didn't originate that plot line either. I doubt the "going tribal" thing was created in the 1989 or whenever that Kevin Costner movie came out. And even if there is influence it doesn't make it bad the same that Aliens isn't bad because its similar to the Starship Troopers novel.

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Seriously. That's all I got out of it. It's not that I don't agree, I just don't watch movies to be preached at.


I got intriguing plot, good main characters, great action, great visuals, great special effects, CGI that didn't look like shit, and an exciting movie. So no. Also this is a science fiction film and it's going to be the highest grossing film of all time, how is this not awesome news for nerds? And James Cameron really is one of the most competent directors alive. Can't wait for Battle Angel Aelita or whatever he does next, because he will get the money for it.. I don't see how you can complain about him when his only contemporaries are people like Michael Bay.

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And 4Chan told Devin that anyone who likes Avatar is a furry. From personal experience, it's at least 50% true.

So half of America is a furry now? lol Sorry I'm sounding off here, but would this movie be getting as much hate for certain segments if it wasn't popular? But yeah another good thing about this film was it was chock full of fanservice, you can cast me in that lot as well if you want.
Edited by Syxx, Jan 12 2010, 06:22 PM.

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Let's see...Avatar is going to be the highest-grossing film (for now) of all time. Yes, of course some people are going to rat on it, for whatever reason they feel. It's in their nature. Unfortunately, I haven't watched the movie yet, but I believe that 99.9% of the actual attacks on Avatar are seriously retarded, including said one in Syxx's first post.
Edited by TerminalGT, Jan 12 2010, 06:53 PM.

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Syxx
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Jan 12 2010, 06:53 PM
Let's see...Avatar is going to be the highest-grossing film (for now) of all time. Yes, of course some people are going to rat on it, for whatever reason they feel. It's in their nature. Unfortunately, I haven't watched the movie yet, but I believe that 99.9% of the actual attacks on Avatar are seriously retarded, including said one in Syxx's first post.
Unless you're one of those people who constantly bitch about "bleeding heart liberals" there's something in this film for almost everyone. That's why it blew up bigger than Star Wars. There were people who were talking shit about this movie before it came out saying it would bomb because it's a scifi cartoon movie about blue cat people, but I knew they were wrong because it's James Cameron. A lot of n00bs trash him because they've only seen Titanic and didn't like it because it's a long love story with Celine Dion music (but still a good film), but the guy also has Terminator 2 and Aliens, two of the greatest science fiction and action movies ever made (and you could mark them as the best in both categories sepparately). He understands film-making about better than anyone. At this point I think you could easily argue that Cameron has eclipsed Steven Spielberg.

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Pfff. I wouldn't let it bother you, J-Syxx. It's the people writing them.

It shouldn't suprise people when The Vatican goes all "hate" on a movie. They were like that when The Compass came out. They will continue on doing so.

Some Christians will listen to them. Some won't. Not everyone follows The Vatican. I don't remember how it was during the '90s. *Shrugs*

Edit:

This past year they said that Halloween was "evil." And told Christians not to celebrate it. I wonder how many Christians listened and didn't celebrate it. >.>
Edited by Seth Nightlord, Jan 12 2010, 09:25 PM.
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J-Syxx
Jan 12 2010, 07:31 PM
TerminalGT
Jan 12 2010, 06:53 PM
Let's see...Avatar is going to be the highest-grossing film (for now) of all time. Yes, of course some people are going to rat on it, for whatever reason they feel. It's in their nature. Unfortunately, I haven't watched the movie yet, but I believe that 99.9% of the actual attacks on Avatar are seriously retarded, including said one in Syxx's first post.
Unless you're one of those people who constantly bitch about "bleeding heart liberals" there's something in this film for almost everyone. That's why it blew up bigger than Star Wars. There were people who were talking shit about this movie before it came out saying it would bomb because it's a scifi cartoon movie about blue cat people, but I knew they were wrong because it's James Cameron. A lot of n00bs trash him because they've only seen Titanic and didn't like it because it's a long love story with Celine Dion music (but still a good film), but the guy also has Terminator 2 and Aliens, two of the greatest science fiction and action movies ever made (and you could mark them as the best in both categories sepparately). He understands film-making about better than anyone. At this point I think you could easily argue that Cameron has eclipsed Steven Spielberg.
Which is why Avatar will receive negative reviews, but only from people who hate James Cameron. (well, mostly anyway; the others are probably amateur reviewers looking to criticize ANYTHING) They'll go so far as to rating down a brilliant (so it seems) movie that even they'd enjoy very much, if they shunted their consuming hatred for Cameron aside, to discredit him. It's happened before with Spielberg and others. Honestly, it's sickening. Why do such negative people exist in the world?

But enough bickering. I'm gonna schedule a day to see Avatar thanks, lol

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And 4Chan told Devin that anyone who likes Avatar is a furry. From personal experience, it's at least 50% true.


LOL, I wouldn't care, one of my best friends is a furry.

I'll probably see this movie at some point. But there's just too much hype right now.

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I finally broke down and went to see Avatar. And while I thought the visuals were indeed stunning, I did find the plot a little thin. Not 'Transformers' thin, but certainly not up to Cameron's previous standards set by 'Terminator 2' and 'Aliens'. And unfortunately, I did see some merit in the comparisons made to 'Dances With Wolves' and 'Pocahontas' in the story. That wasn't as much of a deal-killer as I expected, but again, it was more sound and fury not signifying all that much. (To me, at least)
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It shouldn't surprise people when The Vatican goes all "hate" on a movie. They were like that when The Compass came out. They will continue on doing so.
As far as the whole Vatican thing, their criticism was actually pretty mild - the only problem they seemed to have with the film on a theological level was that they cautioned against turning a love of nature into a worship of nature. Which is justified from their point of view. Don't bite my head off over this - I'm just playing Devil's advocate as far as that goes - I personally am an utterly lapsed Catholic... lol
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Some Christians Catholics will listen to them. Some won't. Not everyone follows The Vatican.
In the U.S., that applies to most Catholics from my experience - The Protestants don't pay any attention to the Pope EVER... :p
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And 4Chan told Devin that anyone who likes Avatar is a furry. From personal experience, it's at least 50% true.
The 50% figure may be an exaggeration, but I will say that Avatar seems to draw furries like flies to feces. I've already seen numerous and horrifying 'Rule 34' furry fan art pieces - and we can expect more eye-searing examples of it for the next twenty years or so... 0.o

Overall it was an entertaining film, and I think as the controversy dies down a more balanced critique of Avatar will be possible. But for now the flames will rage on... And I'm keeping the hell out of the way.














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Jan 12 2010, 05:28 PM
Also, either Yahoo! is slow on this, or my god, it took the Vatican WAY TOO LONG to say something about this movie. Usually their quite quick about tearing into things that they perceived as anti-Catholic.
Update: It's the latter. Thanks Coco!

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And it wasn't about the Iraq war.


All I could see was:

Evil guy: We need the precious metal (oil!)
Sigorney Weaver: No! They have their own special religion and culture (islam)
Evil guy: Who cares, bomb them for precious metal!

...In a way, the evil guy is probably more Cheney than Bush.

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The movie didn't preach at you. Preach at you to do what exactly? Are you developing land or something? Yeah there was an environmentalism theme, but why would you get mad about that if you didn't disagree with it?


I see movies to escape reality, not to be told how I should feel about things. I do watch the news, but I know I'm gonna get told how I should feel.

It was better than "Happy Feet" though. And "Transformers 2" I reckon.
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Syxx
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All I could see was:

Evil guy: We need the precious metal (oil!)
Sigorney Weaver: No! They have their own special religion and culture (islam)
Evil guy: Who cares, bomb them for precious metal!

...In a way, the evil guy is probably more Cheney than Bush.


So how is this any different than gold, spice, or any other natural resource that the land of indigenous people were pilfered for during that 500 year long colonial era?

Also the first script Cameron wrote for this thing was drafted in 1994. Can you explain that? Here's the quote:

Quote:
 
In 1994, director James Cameron wrote a 80-page scriptment for Avatar[7] and he reportedly wrote it in just two weeks.[40][41] Cameron said his inspiration was "every single science fiction book I read as a kid", and that he was particularly striving to update the style of Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter series. In August 1996, Cameron announced that after completing Titanic, he would film Avatar, which would make use of synthetic, or computer-generated, actors.


Looks like you're probably wrong. I'm sorry. There may have been treatments since then, but I doubt the core concepts changed that fundamentally to where it was a different plot.

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I see movies to escape reality, not to be told how I should feel about things. I do watch the news, but I know I'm gonna get told how I should feel.


It didn't tell you how to feel about Bush, Trillium, it was a movie about blue cat people on an alien planet. The fact that it has political allegory doesn't make it a non-escapist film either. In fact this was one of the most escapist type fantasy movies I've seen in the theater in a long time.

Also if your so confident in you opinions on stuff why would you react badly to someone else expressing there's non-directly via art? I like lots of art I don't agree with. I certainly don't agree with the political ideology of Brand Nubian, but that doesn't mean they didn't make fucking awesome records. You said you basically agree with him too, which makes even less sense to me.

Sorry if I came across harsh with this, but when people say things like that I just want to see it defended a bit.
Edited by Syxx, Jan 13 2010, 01:53 PM.

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Jan 13 2010, 10:11 AM
The 50% figure may be an exaggeration, but I will say that Avatar seems to draw furries like flies to feces. I've already seen numerous and horrifying 'Rule 34' furry fan art pieces - and we can expect more eye-searing examples of it for the next twenty years or so... 0.o














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Jan 13 2010, 01:48 PM
1. So how is this any different than gold, spice, or any other natural resource that the land of indigenous people were pilfered for during that 500 year long colonial era?

Looks like you're probably wrong. I'm sorry. There may have been treatments since then, but I doubt the core concepts changed that fundamentally to where it was a different plot.

2. Also if your so confident in you opinions on stuff why would you react badly to someone else expressing there's non-directly via art? I like lots of art I don't agree with. I certainly don't agree with the political ideology of Brand Nubian, but that doesn't mean they didn't make fucking awesome records. You said you basically agree with him too, which makes even less sense to me.

Sorry if I came across harsh with this, but when people say things like that I just want to see it defended a bit.
1. The marines in the movie REALLY looked like modern day marines (didn't they use US Military uniforms too?). Minus the future weapons and junk. Clearly, if we had a robot suit, Iraq would be easy.

2. The other thing that bugged me about the film is that I found it to be at best, average. Pretty yes, but underneath that, I've seen it before, and it wasn't all that new or exciting. I know it looked damn good, and he gets points for that, but I found it to be too boring and predictable. Cameron came in promising to blow me away, and he did, with special effects. With story telling? Not really.

At least I'm not this guy:

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The hippie save the planet vibe was strong with this one... It had me rolling my eyes from time to time. James Cameron is definitely drinking the koolaid.
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Syxx
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The other thing that bugged me about the film is that I found it to be at best, average. Pretty yes, but underneath that, I've seen it before, and it wasn't all that new or exciting. I know it looked damn good, and he gets points for that, but I found it to be too boring and predictable. Cameron came in promising to blow me away, and he did, with special effects. With story telling? Not really.


I thought the story telling was great. Yeah, perhaps it wasn't the most mind-blowingly inventive story arc ever conceived, but I remained enthralled the entire time, and not just by the special effects but by the story and that includes the main plot, love story, etc. And honestly if you use the standard of "a similar story has been used before" I guess that means stuff like Star Wars and Blade Runner is shit as well, but they're not.

Most people consider it above average, that's why it got 83 percent on Rotten Tomatoes and had excellent word of mouth. It has like the best word of mouth of any movie ever. All you have to do is look at it's business of actually going up in the 2nd week and then only dropping 11 percent from its opening in the third week, which has never happened for a movie ever.

Most critics who commented on it's popularity don't attribute it all to special effects like you have. Your entitled to you opinion though, of course. No one can tell you what you enjoy or not. I also don't think something is good because it's popular, but this one definitely has merit so I felt like defending it.

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1. The marines in the movie REALLY looked like modern day marines (didn't they use US Military uniforms too?). Minus the future weapons and junk. Clearly, if we had a robot suit, Iraq would be easy.


Still doesn't change the fact that the movie isn't about "Project Iraqi Freedom" or whatever the fuck Bush called it, which is proved by the fact it was completely conceived written before the war. I remember first hearing about this movie in 1999 or something. Cameron was basically waiting around for technology to improve so he could make it. You only assumed it's about Bush because it involved an American-esque military invasion and all that thus it must've been preaching at you about the war.

Admittedly some stuff was probably inserted into it later like the "shock and awe" line, but that doesnt' mean it's the only thing the movie was about. It's more about about a commentary on war in general (especially imperealism). Every movie that has ever involved war has done that, so you should've expected it. Expecting every war film to have us as the completely innocent awesome good guys is completely juvenile, and film makers have pointed that out since the 1930's. This film was more about the American Indian war to me than most of the others. The aliens didn't look or act like Muslims at all, so I think your reading of that was completely off, no offense.

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Syxx
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Yup, I'm back again to beat this dead horse some more. Just wanted to counter the "but it's a ripoff of Pochahontas and Dances With Wolves" BS that has been reverberated else where. Here's a quote that explains it pretty well from some where else:

Quote:
 
actually, its a ripoff of several old sci-fi novels from the 50's and 60's, and Cameron admits that. I don't see the problem considering noone ever bothered to put to film great books like "John Carter of Mars" and "Avalon". It's a perfect amalgamation of the two.

If it really bothers people so much that it resembles any film they've seen where foreigners clash with natives, then you should study story structure. It's called the archetype and nearly every tale follows some familiar one. It's as unfair as calling Spider-Man a rip-off of Dark Knight. The two just share a morality story archetype for heroes.


So yeah, as I already said all these story ideas came from a similar source obviously that is much, much older that the 1990's and was probably even picked up on by those 50's/60's scifi writers. Anyone who honestly think Cameron made this film as a homage to Disney's Pochahontas is as dumb as rocks.
Edited by Syxx, Jan 16 2010, 12:51 PM.

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Jan 16 2010, 12:49 PM
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It's as unfair as calling Spider-Man a rip-off of Dark Knight. The two just share a morality story archetype for heroes.
Nah, this one would be more unfair cause in order for it to work would mean Sam Raimi had access to a time machine.

And if we had them, I would fully support giving him one.
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Jan 16 2010, 04:09 PM
J-Syxx
Jan 16 2010, 12:49 PM
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It's as unfair as calling Spider-Man a rip-off of Dark Knight. The two just share a morality story archetype for heroes.
Nah, this one would be more unfair cause in order for it to work would mean Sam Raimi had access to a time machine.

And if we had them, I would fully support giving him one.
He probably meant it the other way around. Regardless, his point was they use the same exact story structure. Let me put it this way:

1. Man has tragic past where parent (or parents) die as the result of crime.
2. Man decides to become a costumed hero in order to fight crime partly as a result of his guilt related to said previous tragedy.

If you go with that it's the same exact story, thus "ripoff!" It's exactly the same thing as the people who are saying Avatar ripped off Pochahontas, because the story structure is:

1. Outsider of different race becomes part of a tribe of the other race.
2. Man later helps tribal people fight against invading forces of his same race.

Disney didn't invent that storyline. It existed long before them. Thus calling it "ripoff" because of similar plot structures is misleading, stupid, and even hypocritical if these people like other stories with similar structures (which is probably like 99 percent likely).

There's a point where something can be a knockoff of course, but Avatar is so different from those other films and there's evidence that Cameron's influence came from elsewhere (like the previously mentioned books that use those story structures that were written decades before the other films) that it's just not true.

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Yeah, I had read an article on the movie being a parallel to the Iraqi War, but I don't see it.... if anything I think its more of a parallel to the way the British took over the Americas from the Native Americans.

I really loved the movie; I think its my new favorite movie now, best thing I've ever seen. I really loved the central environmental theme about it too, because that's a big thing for me: I hate deforestation n pollution n all that so yeah, I totally enjoyed it.

It was also the first movie I've seen in 3-D with the good polarized lens deal... not the cheap little red-and-blue paper glasses lol :lmao:

Anyways, I think its pretty stupid that the Vatican thinks nobody should watch it... he needs to get a better hobby, seriously. :omg:

Final note: I think this is pretty cool that its doing so amazingly well. Its the first movie I've ever been to where I couldn't get in because the theatre had sold out so we had to buy tickets to a later show and come back an hour ahead of time to get in line to get entrance to the theatre. :lmao: And it was extremely crowded in the theatre too, at the point where someone I didn't know actually had to sit by me... that never happens, especially not on the fourth weekend of release (which is when I went). It was worth all the chaos though. :wink:
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Syxx
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Thought I would bump this since I found more evidence to support my argument. This comes from a recent interveiw with Cameron:

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-Cameron’s Avatar research: animals, ecosystems, Colonial Period, the interactions between the natives and the first settlers, the American West and the Conquest of Spain. “But at a certain point you have to abandon the research and tell a story.”

-He first knocked out the story in 2-3 weeks in 1995, writing a 100 page template. Cameron did Titanic, but didn’t think the CG was there for Avatar, so he waited.
Edited by Syxx, Feb 7 2010, 11:18 PM.

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