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Government:

Delegate: Wabbitslayah
Officer: Frattastan (Foreign Affairs)
Officer: Marilyn Manson Freaks (Outreach)
Officer: PowerPAOK (Media)
Officer: Relfa (Culture)

Other Officials:

Speaker: Vulturret
RRA High Commander: Frattastan
RRA Commander: Guy
RRA Commander: Wopruthien
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Reopening the FRA Debate; New Information
Topic Started: May 24 2011, 06:16 AM (1,035 Views)
Oliver Dion
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Spartan Termopylae
May 25 2011, 02:16 PM
And what happens when we become a target? Who helps us when the fra decides we need liberating?
If such an unlikely thing happened to occur, I'm quite confident that between all the members here, we could arrange a rather good deal of support against an FRA coup, from various walks of the game for various reasons. I really don't think it'll happen, though.
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Spartan Termopylae
The Fool on the Hill
They seemed to have done elsewhere, hence the reopening of the debate. I dont care for how its run. Theyve set a precedent. We'd be just as well off without them.

And just because they support our goverment today dorsnt mean they will tomorrow
When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die

Liebe ist fur alle da
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Guy
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Old Admin Slave
Yeah, guys, I'd rate the likelihood of the FRA going against Kandarin (or any elected successor) as near-zero.
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Spartan Termopylae
The Fool on the Hill
So is no-one else concerned about a precedent?
When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die

Liebe ist fur alle da
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Wopruthien
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Spammer
Thanks Just Guy, couldn't of said it better, and to Ollie in a round about way.

Spartan, in regards to the precedent, I'm not sure entirely what you mean. The South Pacific saw an internal coup in which a delegate took over. We moved in and supported the previous delegate Southern Bellz who is considered the administrations current leader. The FRA took a decision to support SB, though not everyone agrees with that cause of action, it was the one we took. Feeder involvement is taken on a case by case basis and each time we involve ourselves we learn and adapt (or that is the ultimate aim) and make sure mistakes are not repeated. I cannot see into the future, but I would be stunned if the FRA ever moved in to overthrow a member regions elected and supported delegate. That is not what the FRA stands for, which is in short to protect members and other founderless regions from invasion, raiding, imperialism and or grieving.



For everyone else:

Can I have a list of grievances that we have with Unibot's current term as AC please.
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Biyah
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High Priest of the Cult
We'll present our grievences.

I doubt the FRA would try to take down Kandarin, but Kandarin is not guaranteed to be in that seat forever. And stranger things have happened, it is possible. If so, though, this is the one region in the world the FRA would screw themselves trying to take. There are more former ADN'ers and Feeder crashers here than anywhere else in the game, and we've added some raiders to to the score as well. If they tried, they'd fail mierably.

I will not comment on what the FRA did in TSP, it's their actions leading up to that invasi.... liberation, that is in question here.

~B
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Spartan Termopylae
The Fool on the Hill
One mans terrorist is another mans greedom fighter. Also the word coup implies that it is a strictly internal matter. Say i were to hammer enpugh endorsements to become delegate without the support of the main folks here who know the fra. They dont lime it. But it's an internal affair. Not the action pf invaders. Therefore there is no need for intervention. How do we know that this isnt what really happened in this case?
When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die

Liebe ist fur alle da
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Biyah
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High Priest of the Cult
That is exactly what happened in this case. The delegate fell asleep, someone took over the region without a single external WA.

Hence the uproar. The FRA is getting involved in internal matters, and insulting their member regions while they're at it by kicking them out of planning sessions because of supposed loyalties.

~B
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Spartan Termopylae
The Fool on the Hill
Therefore good reasons to get out while we still can. And if we have the ability to drum up support against a theoretical incursion from the fra, then we hardly need them to defend against other outsiders, do we?
When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die

Liebe ist fur alle da
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Spartan Termopylae
The Fool on the Hill
Double post. Sorry
Edited by Spartan Termopylae, May 25 2011, 03:12 PM.
When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die

Liebe ist fur alle da
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Biyah
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High Priest of the Cult
Agreed.
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Cocodian
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RRA Commander
I think this has spiralled a bit and while I accept that I'm horribly biased in this matter I would just like to pull some points up.

1)
Quote:
 
And what happens when we become a target? Who helps us when the fra decides we need liberating?


The FRA would never launch a military operation against member region unless it had been invaded, full stop. We are there to protect member regions from invasions and the FRA is our member regions, every single member of TRR, CoN, AWP, GRA and so on are members of the FRA so to say we would attack ourselves is just wrong. We have defended TRR on a number of occasions in the past and have always looked out for the region's security.

2)
Quote:
 
Therefore good reasons to get out while we still can. And if we have the ability to drum up support against a theoretical incursion from the fra, then we hardly need them to defend against other outsiders, do we?


Regions are free to leave whenever they want, all they need to do is have the reps post on our forums saying as such. For the second part of your post I will go back to my first point, we have defended TRR a number of times- must be 4 times since I've been involved in the FRA, which is hardly a long amount of time.

3)
Quote:
 
I don't understand it, it's function, it's organisation, or what we get out of it.


As Sedge says, the main benefits are defence and intelligence. As member regions if TRR was attack every other member region is bound by our charter to send WAs to defend TRR. Because of this you would have the support of far more WAs then if you were not in the FRA (as then member regions are not bound so just the Rangers move in if requested) and the operation would take priority over everything else. The intelligence provided allows regional leaders to be warned of any suspicious nations, any possible spies so again helps your security. Finally, we also offer activity for everyone to get involved in the rangers, in the cabinet and foster a sense of community.

I won't say any more, but for those who perhaps aren't sure about what the FRA does or how it does it you should pop over to our forums and see, it would great to have you get involved :)
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Spartan Termopylae
The Fool on the Hill
And you can explain and justify the issue raised? Where a coup, an internal matter with no outside interventiob, was judged to be a threat to your fra enough to intervene in a regions independence? What does that say could happen to someone else tomorrow, or us in 6 months?
When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die

Liebe ist fur alle da
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Cocodian
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RRA Commander
Spartan Termopylae
May 25 2011, 04:32 PM
And you can explain and justify the issue raised? Where a coup, an internal matter with no outside interventiob, was judged to be a threat to your fra enough to intervene in a regions independence? What does that say could happen to someone else tomorrow, or us in 6 months?
I don't really understand what you are asking.....do you mean would the FRA intervene in a coup in the feeders or TRR specifically? If it is the latter (and bear in mind I'm not in the current cabinet) the AC and the CoDF would talk to the government, so in this case Nai, CG, Sedge and your officers to try and find out what has happened. Once that occurred we would stand by the wishes of the region and the officers- however it is really done on a case by case bases and unless you put something more specific forward I can't be.....does that answer the question or have I got the wrong end of the stick? :)
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Spartan Termopylae
The Fool on the Hill
The recent region "liberation" belies that. An internal affair interfered with by the fra. There was apparently no outside intervention until the fra stuck its nose in. Which seems to violate your own mandate. I dont want that to happen here and the only way to avoid that is to leave. I dont have a problem wirh the general membership, but the whole upper echelons seem ro be a bit askew. Without removing every single senior member, which is impossible in one fell swoop, that wont change. I advocate withdrawing, but also say that i would support rejpining. Farther down the line when there has been improvement to the obvipusly flawed system
When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die

Liebe ist fur alle da
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