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Government:

Delegate: Wabbitslayah
Officer: Frattastan (Foreign Affairs)
Officer: Marilyn Manson Freaks (Outreach)
Officer: PowerPAOK (Media)
Officer: Relfa (Culture)

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Speaker: Vulturret
RRA High Commander: Frattastan
RRA Commander: Guy
RRA Commander: Wopruthien
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Locked Topic
Constitutional draft
Topic Started: Feb 12 2011, 01:10 AM (1,219 Views)
sedge
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Admin Slave
I still don't get this. You're asking to balance the power of the members of the region. That doesn't make sense.
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Whamabama
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Questionably Evil
Ok, in six months, say we have gained some members, lost others ect. Ect.

It is proposed that the RRA should be under the control of the assembly. That the assembly should vote on who controls it, the type of missions it undertakes ect. So a constitutional amendment is written, and placed before the assembly.

Much to your dismay it has overwhelming support. And it passes.

Now what? You prepared to hand the reins over to the assembly? Perhaps come up with some excuse why it's not going to happen, place a mandate to everyone that even though the people want it, that what they want don't matter.

Now TRR is got more drama, more threats, and to make matters worse, their right, and it would be those who denied it in the wrong. PR goes along way, and now all the propaganda can be proved.

A veto is not to prevent the will of the people from happening in most cases, but to maintain balance with the wishes of the people, and the good of the region.

I'm trying to give that balance, withe veto the amendment can be defeated if passed, without it, well either the RRA loses it's current identity, or you place yourself in the role of the bad guy, the bad guy that people will more than likely see as, the bad guy that needs overthrown.
Those who don't create, dictate
The structure of our world and preach hate
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CrazyGirl
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RRA Commander
The RRA is not the goverment's or the region's possession.
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sedge
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Admin Slave
It's easy to come up with hypothetical situations where the constitution wouldn't work - I'm sure there are plenty of them. What we need to consider is how realistic they are, and I don't think the one you've raised is at all likely to happen.

Besides, there's more than enough RRA members to vote against such a change.
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Whamabama
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Questionably Evil
This is akin to sticking our fingers in our ears, closing our eyes and chanting lalala I can't hear you!

How realistic you say? Well it's happened before in NS! So pretty damn realistic.

And CG doesn't really matter in this case how the RRA is set up. Easy to claim that, and no doubt that's how you meant for it to be. However in the realm of PR, it would be as I said it would. It's better to have safeguards than pretend it isn't posible.

And ya this sorta thing is not limited to something regarding the RRA.

It's one thing to have a limited constitution, that allows leway to legislate most things, another to have a weak one that allows you to be vulnerable.
Those who don't create, dictate
The structure of our world and preach hate
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Thought Transference
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professional loafer
CG and Wham, do you guys need marital counselling? ;-)
Peace,
TT

Coffee is the cause of all things. (Thales, 2nd ed.)
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Naivetry
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Spammer
I've been thinking about this for a while, and my take on it is that the Delegate shouldn't have a veto, just as the Delegate doesn't have a ban button in game. In the end, it's all about who chooses to make their home here - and those people should have the biggest say in what happens in the region. If that means someday the group of folks currently on this board is outnumbered and outvoted, then we'll have to deal with it. We outlast regional invasions only because we care about TRR and put work into holding our ground here; I think it's fair to create a government that works in the same way.
[nation]Kandarin[/nation] the Younger/[nation]Lirantha[/nation]
~
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Spartan Termopylae
The Fool on the Hill
Add to that the fact that it seems to be a moot point at the moment the way the vote is going....
When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die

Liebe ist fur alle da
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Naivetry
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Spammer
True, but I hate leaving disagreements unaddressed. The vote may go one way or another, but anyone who disagrees with the way it goes deserves to have their concerns acknowledged. Before voting started, Sedge and Wham were arguing completely different points - Sedge was talking about democracy and Wham was talking about security. As I take it, Wham's two concerns are delegate coups and an alteration of our current culture and approach to the region by people whose ideas we fundamentally disagree with. Those are both valid concerns - I brought up the "legislative invasion" idea earlier, myself. But I think as a matter of principle that we have to allow for that risk and that possibility of change. Unlike UCRs, we here have a right to the administration of this region only inasmuch as we care to exercise it. We have no Founder to set out our basic principles or purpose; we have only our history and our determination to preserve it. If people come here and disagree with us, we have no right to shut them out; our only option, as with any coup or invasion, is to care more and to care for longer. So, I fully recognize the risks involved in a constitution of this sort, which Wham has pointed out. But I think they're both necessary and ultimately good for the health of the region and our community.
[nation]Kandarin[/nation] the Younger/[nation]Lirantha[/nation]
~
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