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The use of Kandarin
Topic Started: Jan 19 2011, 06:11 AM (1,336 Views)
Dalimbar
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I have to agree with the sentiments of most individuals who have posted here (i.e. those who wish Nai to keep using Kandarin as her WA). While personally after six and a half years of playing NS I will associate the nation of "Kandarin" with the individual who, prior to handing Kandarin to the individual who controls the nations of Naivetry and Lirantha, it is the simple fact that Kandarin is owned by the person behind Naivetry. In a conversation with both of them in an IRC chat one evening a couple weeks ago, that was his sentiments as well, and is is her's to use however she wishes.

Several years ago (as my age in this game is catching up on me, I would say this side story happened in 2005 or 2006), one of my puppets was the founder of a region (Allied Union of Nations, and if any oldie remembers this, I will give you kudos). For the longest time using that puppet I did not post as "Dalimbar" or one of my usual aliases (such as Chodean Kal, which is my WA nation that I use for being in-game Delegate of The North Pacific), yet as that puppet nation. They all knew who I was, but that's besides the point. I started becoming more involved in the feeders, and asked one of the main players in the region (can't remember who now...) to take control of my nation, use it how they wish, etc. They agreed, and after that point there was a complete separation from "Dalimbar", any of the puppets that I (the player behind Dalimbar) controls, and this particular puppet.

I find it respectable that the player behind Naivetry (and for sake of this conversation I will only refer to her as Naivetry, as I seriously do not wish to type out "the player behind [nation here]" over and over again) is keen to identify herself as "Kandarin the Younger" or whatever it is if and when she has to use Kandarin, given the fact that Kandarin is rather high profile due to the works of the player who used to be in control of Kandarin. But it is her nation now, she can do what she wants with it, she could pull a Pixiedance and give it to some nefarious character that will screw over the region, etc. It isn't so much that Naivetry=Kandarin, more that Kandarin (the nation) is a puppet of Naivetry. If you wish to complain to someone over that decision, I suggest you try to hunt down the player who used to control Kandarin, and whine to him. Not that it will do much good now, as it is her puppet now.

Now, to the issue of Naivetry switching puppets in order to control the WA Delegacy of The Rejected Realms while at the same time one of the most able and competent feeder hijackers in the game is quite close to ousting the Delegate. For the benefit of the newer players, I will also say that like Biyah (and having worked with Biyah, Nee and a few others quite a lot over the past couple years, especially after I went "rogue" in TNP back when I was last Delegate of that region in 2007), I as well have either personally or been behind several feeder hijackings, and Nee has been involved in most of them. I'm not going to denounce her for what she's doing, as this is what she enjoys and frankly my philosophy in this game is "do what you enjoy doing". Yet, do something silly like switching Delegates, even for a 24 hour period, while she is watching, and do not expect to have any sort of stability in the region for a while, until she gets bored. Nor am I advocating immediately calling in the FRA or other defender groups, as that will be an instant cry-to-arms for the Invaders that she probably has contacted already. If you want to keep this place stable (yet active), then think of this as trench warfare with Naivetry in the better position. Give in for one second and switch your guns now because of the demands of one individual who frankly has from my observation spent little time here and most of that time insulting other people, and watch Nee go in for the advantage.

AS, you claim that you were involved in the aftermath of The Empire, a project that Biyah, Nee and myself (among others) did. Yet, it was because of incompetence on the part of Gnidrah that we were able to do that. It is pure exploitation of circumstances that allows these things to happen, not just the mathematics of endorsements or whatever. Both sides know who to call up when the event happens, if it does happen, and it will be a long and protracted struggle for each side to shake the other off, given the fact there is no banject button here. If Naivetry does switch her WA now, while knowing that Nee is there ready to pounce, then frankly I think we deserve what we get. Nai, wait it out until Nee becomes bored and tries to strike elsewhere. After that point, you can switch WAs or whatever you want, and you won't get a fuss from me.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text for those of you who dislike walls of text. Just think, I could have gone on longer...
Edited by Dalimbar, Jan 23 2011, 04:40 AM.
Dalimbar
Delegate (Ret.) of Osiris
Delegate (Ret.) of The North Pacific
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Dyr Nasad
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Dalimbar
Jan 23 2011, 04:32 AM
EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text for those of you who dislike walls of text. Just think, I could have gone on longer...
We're grateful :P

Well, AS..are you going to give this up now? Probably the only active player in this game that has a feeder-crashing resume that can match those assembled here is the one trying to take the seat, and you dont have much credibility here (tarting doesnt help). I'd prefer NOT tying up every active defender for a month, and as much fun as those endo campaigns are..they are rather dull in a region without a ban button
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Thought Transference
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professional loafer
:dhorse

ANUR-SANUR! This is the police! Drop the stick and step away from the horse!


Why are we even arguing this point with A-S anymore? He's blowing smoke and everyone knows it. He wants us to believe that he knows what he's talking about, but who is he?

The best I can say for him is that he might actually know how ridiculous this is, and he's saying it to try and bait us into some stupid act of region-suicide. But that suggests that he's working according to some kind of agenda. So, is he working to aid exactly this kind of invasion, hoping we'll get entangled in his nonsense and waste our time arguing with one another instead of keeping our eyes open, or is he just doing this because he enjoys creating confusion?

A-S, I don't suppose you'd consider going back to TEP and posting this kind of nonse -- oh, wait, they already burned you out of there for acting like this.

Stop trying to sell us a suicidal course of action. We aren't buying it.
Peace,
TT

Coffee is the cause of all things. (Thales, 2nd ed.)
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Anur-Sanur
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in order to quash the perception that I am avoiding this topic or backing off I will give a quick response.

Tt is in disagreement with Biyah, or at least their statements disagree.

the argument that Biyah is making is not that we shouldn't do it because we will fail, or commit "suicide".
his says yes it would be difficult, but possible. he is against it because he now equates Kandarin with Naivetry.

in other words, his views don't come from a pure security standpoint. He just doesn't think its worth it, even though we could do it.
I am still getting the views of storied nations on this issue. I will also get a handle on these nations opinions of Biyah.
It is obvious with the Equilisim network, Biyah's expertise is not the only thing granting him authority.

I will come back to this thread after I have taken in the information I am learning.
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Whamabama
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Questionably Evil
I think you have been summarily outvoted. and quite frankly I could care less about the opinion of a so called storied nation, that more than likely only exists in your arguments.

And it has far as the argument of "could we do it"

well the argument of "should we do it" is a better question.

One with a clear answer.

No, we should not. It would be foolhardy, and rather stupid.
Those who don't create, dictate
The structure of our world and preach hate
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Anur-Sanur
Jan 24 2011, 07:07 PM
in order to quash the perception that I am avoiding this topic or backing off I will give a quick response.

Tt is in disagreement with Biyah, or at least their statements disagree.

the argument that Biyah is making is not that we shouldn't do it because we will fail, or commit "suicide".
his says yes it would be difficult, but possible. he is against it because he now equates Kandarin with Naivetry.
...
:blink:

Eh??

The others and I aren't disagreeing, at least not here in the real world. As so often, you've managed to miss the point. You've found one leaf on one twig on one branch of one tree, and totally missed the forest.

Either you're only pretending to be able to comprehend English or you're on a hallucinogen so powerful that we aren't actually having a conversation anymore, because you're no longer conscious in any meaningful sense.

Too bad. Until that post, you were on the verge of being the first computer program to pass the Turing test. Now you read like just another bot.
Peace,
TT

Coffee is the cause of all things. (Thales, 2nd ed.)
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Biyah
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High Priest of the Cult
As a note, I never said it couldnt be done. I said, rather clearly, that it shouldnt be done. If the need was pressing, and we felt like dealing with the political/military headache, we -could- put Lirantha in the seat. We'd have to deal with the war that would ensue however, and that's not something I'd look forward too.

Last time: Kandy should stay put.

You remind me of Govindia or Tweedy. And that is -not- a good thing. You're either an idiot, troll or agent provocateur. I havent quite decided which yet.

~B
Edited by Biyah, Jan 25 2011, 06:14 AM.
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Spartan Termopylae
The Fool on the Hill
Could be an idiotic trolling provocateur?
When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die

Liebe ist fur alle da
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Thought Transference
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professional loafer
Might he be a very stoned idiotic trolling provocateur?

I know there are a couple of regions that would appreciate his stoner routine, but they'd probably get fed up with the other aspects pretty fast. Oh wait, he'd just end up back here again anyway ...
Peace,
TT

Coffee is the cause of all things. (Thales, 2nd ed.)
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Anur-Sanur
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Dedicated
i don't believe I have been outvoted
People Who Would Like To See Lirantha Used: 3 Votes
People Who Want Kandarin to Stay: 3 Votes
People Who Aren't Sure/Abstain : 4 Votes

So if anything we are tied. Surely this indicates at least an attempt should be made?

actually I checked again and it is
3
4
3

still enough for an attempt to be made
Edited by Anur-Sanur, Jan 27 2011, 08:14 PM.
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sedge
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You want an actual vote amongst residents?
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Anur-Sanur
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well i mean, how exactly are we determining the process or the ballot?

for example, many people have said they would like Lirantha to be delegate, but would understand if it couldn't be done.
So the ballot choices shouldn't be too concrete because it is a complicated choice. I'm just pointing out their are mixed feelings, which I think warrants at least an attempt.

i still don't see why I am portrayed as a radical for suggesting that Lirantha simply start tarting up now? is there no one Naivetry trusts for this task?
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sedge
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It's because Pristine Angel/NeeNee is currently trying to take over the region.

Really, I have no strong feelings either way - if Nai wants to switch to Lirantha eventually, sure - I'll help her, and we can get it done. I don't think it's necessary, but that's not a big deal. The point is, I don't want it done now.

If we find in the future that there's no-one in TRR trying to take the delegacy, then we can have a proper debate on it then, and if we decide to do so, we can switch.

At the moment, though, it's not something we should be considering.
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Anur-Sanur
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that is simply a restatement of your personal opinion.
furthermore you seem to suggest that anyone who suggests it be tried is ignorant of the risks.

all some people are asking is that at least an attempt be made. Lirantha can tart up and see where that goes, it really doesn't require that much effort.
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Shambles
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Well, if this is turning into a show of hands, I'm on the side of keeping Kandarin in the delegate seat.
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