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| Reality Check | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 25 2012, 03:08 PM (455 Views) | |
| LostFarmer | Apr 25 2012, 03:08 PM Post #1 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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This week I have talked with 2 long time friends and both are getting divorces. Both have been married 18 plus years both have kids involved. I think I am taking it harder than they are. How do you toss out that many years? With kids involved it is not like you are ever really divorced. The ironic part is both men are wanting to go to counseling and try and make it work. Both wives are I want out. I just don't understand. I know all 4 well and I can see where some of the problems are. Both men are linear thinking engineers. They tend to say what they are thinking in black and white. Very little tact. Both women are much more touchy feely type people. Both women complain that the men are never home to be husbands and fathers. Both fathers are workaholics that support the family in a manner that lets the women be stay at home moms. Both women have never fully cut the umbilical cord and are more married to their mothers than their husbands. Like I say I see where both sides are part of the problem. Never seen a marriage of 3 work before but if the men aren't there for their wives then I see why they turn to others. The real losers are the kids. The only advise I could give them is to never under any circumstance say anything negative about the other. It is extremely hard but for the kids sake mom and dad though not husband and wife must respect the kids other parent. Never use the kids as a bargaining chip with the other. I have watched it play out over and over the one that bad mouths the other parent eventually loses the kids. The kids are smart enough to learn what mom or dad is really like. Anything else I can say? I have told both that I refuse to take sides and won't get into it. |
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| naters | Apr 25 2012, 03:21 PM Post #2 |
It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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I read a survey once that said 98% of divorced women would prefer to not marry again. I think men have the better end of the deal in a marraige. Maybe the women are just tired of it all? I agree w not saying anything negative. |
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| LostFarmer | Apr 25 2012, 03:45 PM Post #3 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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I agree that men do have it pretty good in marriage for the most part. In this case both women have had the opportunity to be moms first and not juggle mom and career. Don't get me wrong moms work and work darn hard no matter what the situation. I do think that when there is enough money that they don't have to work outside the home it lessens the load some. I do understand the need of the mothers to have some adult interaction and see that the men have failed in that to some degree. Mrs. Lost and I had a deal that when I came home from work when she was staying home I was to do nothing but listen and nod my head until she had delivered her 5000 words. At that point we could talk about my work or the kids. I get where both sides are coming from I am just not sure divorce is the answer. It isn't like any of these people are anything but good people. No drunks, wife beaters, no cheats, nothing that would lead me to think that there is any irreparable damage. |
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| Fish Cheeks | Apr 25 2012, 04:00 PM Post #4 |
You're BANNED!
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I'm sorry that you're having a hard time with this, LF. The only thing I can say is that you never know what goes on behind closed doors - while you may thing everything is hunky dory at home for your friends, obviously it is not. Mr. Fishy and I were friends with a couple where he was a doctor and made good money and the wife was happy being a stay-at-home mom. Unbeknownst to us (because it was none of our business), the Mr. had some bedroom requests that wife was not interested in so he sought a solution elsewhere and that was the beginning of the end. While I'm sure the wives enjoy the ability to be stay-at-home moms, it may not be what they want from life. There's more to being a good husband than being a good provider. Anyway, I agree that it is best to not choose sides, although you may get stuck in the middle if both sides use you as a sounding board. The best thing you can do for your friends is support their choices and be there if they need you. |
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| FlashGordon | Apr 25 2012, 06:55 PM Post #5 |
You're BANNED!
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It's tough, LF. I do agree not choosing sides is probably the best bet, just being quietly supportive and there for the kids if they need it really is probably the best bet. I agree that sometimes things may look just fine, good, even great on the outside but there can be underlying issues those of us on the outside don't see. I do sometimes wonder though, if things could be worked through, depending on the circumstances... sort of like nater's thread, there are dealbreakers and then there are times when you just have to dig in and sort it out. Love is often a choice, IMO. Some days you don't like your partner let alone love them, but you're committed to each other and the relationship so you push on. I'm not saying that is the RIGHT thing to do in EVERY situation, but sometimes, you do have to work at the marriage pretty damn hard. It is *tiring* though, at times, and I think occasionally people get tired of fighting the fight to make it work. My husband is a serious workaholic, and it nearly caused the demise of our marriage. I was incredibly lonely and felt very much like a single parent, trying to juggle the household, kids, and my own small business. Thankfully we sought counseling and I can't even tell you what a difference it has made. Looking at the whole thing now, we could have called it quits, and maybe would have to be honest... but I'm glad we were able to sort through it and it has brought us do a deeper understanding of each other, our relationship, and we definitely appreciate our little family unit now more than ever. On the flipside there are definitely things that I personally could never deal with-- abuse, cheating, substance abuse, extreme financial irresponsibility for example. Sometimes the dissolution of a relationship is less about the relationship and more about one or both people deciding they want something different than what they have. My parents were together 30 years, had four kids, built a whole life. Then out of the blue, 3 days before my dad turned 50, he decided he didn't want that life anymore. It was exceptionally sad to see everything they had worked for *for three decades* crumble to pieces-- most especially the relationships with us kids, their families, close friends, etc. 7 years later and my father has admitted that he deeply regrets that decision, and that the life he had wasn't so bad afterall. He has since remarried, has moved 4 times, and is generally a very unhappy and unsettled person. Maybe he always was-- maybe that is what sparked him to seek a change in the first place. But I know he was at his best when he was with my mom. It is sad to see the damage that was left in the wake of their divorce, especially since he openly regrets it now (though don't tell my step mom that, lol.) Anyway this was rambley but I guess I've been thinking about this stuff a lot lately. |
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| gunnar | Apr 25 2012, 07:04 PM Post #6 |
You're BANNED!
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People change. And yes Marriage is work. I worked hard on mine and it still failed after 30 years. No big fights no obvious signs to most. Just one person changing so much that the relaitionship is unsalvagable. Be a good friend and be a good listener. |
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| FlashGordon | Apr 25 2012, 07:10 PM Post #7 |
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You're BANNED!
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People do change, and sometimes I really do think that maybe we are just not meant to have one partner FOR-EVAH!!!!!! Maybe different partners, for different stages of life. I think it is really personal, and situational. I do know if I got divorced or God forbid something happened to Mr. FG, I don't think I would marry again. |
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| Onelanerode | Apr 26 2012, 03:46 AM Post #8 |
Off visiting Candy Cave, be right back.
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Agree completely with this. I do think it is natural that people change over time. I know I am not the same person I was when I got married 5.5 years ago, and I don't expect to be the person I am today in another 5 years. People grow and change, and I don't think it is realistic to expect that two people who loved each other and were totally compatible at 30 and 34 are always going to remain that way at 50 and 54. I think sometimes you grow together, sometimes you grow and you have to sort of "renegotiate" things with yourself and/or with your partner and find a new balance, and sometimes you grow apart. And then there are some people who sort of seem to get stuck reliving their "glory" days and act like college kids when they're 40, but ... guess that's a bit of a tangent.  IME, yeah, men do get more out of marriage than women do. My own father told me that when I was about 21, 22. I wish I'd listened to him a little more closely. But with the wisdom of someone in her early 20s, I just thought *my* marriage would be different. Well ... no, it's really not. But most of the time, I feel like I made the right choice. And it is very much a choice you make, consciously or unconsciously, every day, multiple times a day. There are times that it is a LOT of work, and it can seem to be more work than it's worth. It is really hard feeling like you are the only one putting something into the relationship and the other person is coasting along, but there are times when that happens. I also think quite often the marriage relationship gets put on the back burner in favor of jobs, childcare, housework, etc. ... all the things that "have" to get done. And things coast along for a while until suddenly things aren't working, and then you have to stop and fix things and try and remember how they got that way and how not to let that happen again. But I am with FG ... while the financial security of marriage is nice (losing your job while married is scary, but not nearly as terrifying as if you are single), I also don't think I'd remarry were something to happen to Mr. OLR or we got divorced. Marriage is an experience I'm glad I've had, but it's not one I'd necessarily seek to have again. |
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| Trialbyfire | Apr 26 2012, 04:09 AM Post #9 |
You're BANNED!
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I think this is very common, and what causes the end of many marriages, especially those like LF describes. The man is off working hard, "providing" for his family. And while he's doing that, they are living a very separate life. It's not too hard to see how after 19-20 years of this, they really are no longer a "family" but two separate entities, and the working person isn't much different than an alimony check. I try to remind my dh of this....he is working hard for "the family" and missing a lot of it while he works. It's not an easy balance, but it's a necessary one....because the less he is around, the easier it is for us to imagine a life without him. My friends and I (those especially who are SAHMs with a hard-working dh) joke about dreading our husband's retirement years. We are so used to being home without them, and can easily keep busy for weeks....but they are not used to being here. So we need to get them started on some hobbies now before they retire and drive us nuts! Oh, and ETA about the umbilical cord (which is actually sort of offensive but you probably didn't mean it to be)....for the workaholic dad...who does he think his wife talks to while he's gone to work? And depends on when she needs help? I wish my mom lived closer to me! There are only so many things you can ask of your friends, especially when you have kids. Edited by Trialbyfire, Apr 26 2012, 04:11 AM.
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| JanM | Apr 26 2012, 04:31 AM Post #10 |
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Off visiting Candy Cave, be right back.
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I've totally given up on trying to figure out what relationships will be successful and the ones that won't last, because I'm usually wrong. Only the people inside the relationship know if it's right for them. I've seen some long-term relationships that seemed very solid end, and it seems to be about retirement or empty nest time, when people decide they don't want to live with that person any longer. And I think it's because the relationship will change, the other priorites are gone, and they'll have to make a new path together, but dont' want to do that. Tons of Military relationships go bust right about retirement time, so maybe it's the amount of time together, and changing one more time when one partner or another are sick of moving and changing for the other person. Some of the (only in my view) weirdest relationships (both cheating on each other for the entire marriage, catching the other person, recriminations and fighting, and going back to the status quo) seem to last forever, because I guess that relationship is exactly what they both want. There's no figuring out a relationship unless you are in it, and sometimes both parties don't have the same views on it either. And maybe people just decide that it's not too late to change everything and go forward alone, or to a different relationship. It's sad when it happens because of the others involved, meaning children, but it's just a fact of life. I think it's more shocking to outsiders, because many people hide the conflicts and unhappiness for a long time before they break up, so outsiders are surprised. |
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| Little Diva | Apr 26 2012, 05:01 AM Post #11 |
You're BANNED!
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All of you know where I am in my personal life right now, just newly single again, and making my way in the world on my own again. And please, don't take that statement to be one from a lonely person. I am not. I know that many of our friends were shocked when L and I split up. But if they had been looking closely or listening, they would have seen the obvious cracks in the relationship that became apparent about a year ago. Someone said it earlier, you never know what is going on behind closed doors. I made a startling realization the other day. I do want to be married again because that is the only way I will ever live with another man. I am not going to do this living together thing -- too easy to just walk away. I want someone in my life who will stand up in front of friends and family with me and say "I pick you." I want what my parents have -- married 52 years now. When we were planning their 50th Annivesary weekend parties 2 years ago, I had to give the speech and toast at the dinner. So I asked them, what was the secret? Their life together had not been easy at times -- loss of a family farm, deaths of parents and siblings, a challenging teenager (me!), health crises (mom), and so on. But, they are still together. And the funny thing is, the answer they gave was direct and simple. Remember to LIKE each other. They are not each other's best friends, they admit that. They each have their own interests and things they do without the other one there, but they have things they do together. And yes, they fight and argue -- although I have never ever heard them SCREAM at each other or have a real nasty fight. But they always talk to each other. And they do, truly like each other. So that is what I want for the rest of my life. Even if it is only for the next 5 years or 2 years or 40 years. I want that one person that I LIKE first and love second. Someone who I can depend on and will take care of me when I need it and I will do the same; someone who understands that what I have gone through has shaped my life and who I am and accepts me for all of that and I will do exactly the same. I have no fear of being alone. I know that I will always have friends and family and these are the greatest gifts that god has given me and I cherish them every single day. And I know that the person I am meant to be with is out there somewhere. We will find each other. Someday.  (I am feeling very peaceful and serene today -- amazing sunrise and great drive to work  )
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| Chezzie | Apr 26 2012, 07:19 AM Post #12 |
Magical Leopluridon
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I don't know about the other ladies here, but I think I have a right to expect more from my spouse than that he isn't an alcoholic, doesn't abuse me, and doesn't have sex with other women. That's setting the bar a little low, don't you think? |
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| Won for Me | Apr 26 2012, 07:42 AM Post #13 |
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Is the meadow on fire?
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I think some spouses get bitter and start saying negative things when the attorneys and courts get involved. It seems to me when custody and child support is figured out, there are no winners. It is never enough on the woman's side and always too much from the male perspective. I only know one person who paid more than he was asked to or so he said. I never spoke to the wife. I know other men who are in ruins by the court system and see no end in sight. Constant harrassment and constant court dates from the unhappy exes. It would be hard to keep that from the kids. Many give up... That is probably a whole topic for another time, but I can see where the negativity comes from even when there are only good intentions in the beginning. |
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| LostFarmer | Apr 26 2012, 08:42 AM Post #14 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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As it looks right now, on the dads is going to have custody. The kids are older and have asked the courts to let them choose. Mom is now mad because she would have to pay child support. Dad has said it doesn't make sense to have her pay child support. Now she is mad that she isn't getting enough alimony. He figures that she is the one that wants to leave then she has not claim to his retirement. I am afraid that it is shaping up to go down bad. The only winners will be the attorneys and the losers will be the kids and parents. As I listened to the wife last night, I think there are some hormonal issues going on. She had a hysterectomy for some per-cancerous garbage a couple of years ago. I am not blaming her or making excuses but I do think that is adding to the equation. I don't understand as I have never been through such a thing but I do see where it can be a factor. I just let each one talk at me and say little besides I am sorry and what can i do. |
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| LostFarmer | Apr 26 2012, 08:45 AM Post #15 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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I meant that as going both ways. None of the parties have been unfaithful, physically abusive, or substance abuse. (I do realize that abuse doesn't have to be physical and I don't know if there is any of that.) To me most things can be worked through as long as the biggies aren't there. |
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