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Does this guy say Hunter to you?; Update post #60 - how about this MARE ;)
Topic Started: Mar 16 2012, 06:50 PM (3,094 Views)
Chezzie
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Magical Leopluridon
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SnackPack
Mar 17 2012, 06:18 PM
I think $10k for an average type 3 year old is ridiculous...and they seem to think it's what they are owed because it cost them that much to get the horse to 3 and backed, etc.
But...how much are they supposed to charge? Say it costs a breeder $200 a month (as a conservative estimate) to feed/bed/care for a baby for three years. That's $7200. Not including a stud fee, vet bills, farriers, having someone start it under saddle, and the sheer sweat equity of caring for horses 365 days a year. I think that adds up to at least $10k. I don't think a breeder should take a financial loss for producing a big, attractive, pleasant horse who looks like he will grow up to be pretty nice for someone. If we expect breeders to take a loss on horses like that, they will stop producing them...and we, the amateurs with modest budgets, will be really SOL.
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SnackPack
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You're BANNED!
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Chezzie
Mar 17 2012, 08:42 PM
SnackPack
Mar 17 2012, 06:18 PM
I think $10k for an average type 3 year old is ridiculous...and they seem to think it's what they are owed because it cost them that much to get the horse to 3 and backed, etc.
But...how much are they supposed to charge? Say it costs a breeder $200 a month (as a conservative estimate) to feed/bed/care for a baby for three years. That's $7200. Not including a stud fee, vet bills, farriers, having someone start it under saddle, and the sheer sweat equity of caring for horses 365 days a year. I think that adds up to at least $10k. I don't think a breeder should take a financial loss for producing a big, attractive, pleasant horse who looks like he will grow up to be pretty nice for someone. If we expect breeders to take a loss on horses like that, they will stop producing them...and we, the amateurs with modest budgets, will be really SOL.
I do understand the economics behind it, which is why I believe a whole lot of breeders producing average (or less) horses shouldn't be breeding at all. There is only money in breeding if you have the right animals, the right resources, etc. The hobbyist breeders DO take a loss...and have to when they are producing average horse. The saying of "if you want to make a small fortune in horses, start with a large one" is so true it's not even funny.

Let the big breeders, who have the resources and the economics of scale, do the breeding. The average ammies will take their culls. FWIW, I think $10k for a horse going around 2'6" with a demonstrable lead change (it's in there, but probably not even close to reliable yet) is reasonable price. This is usually not the 3-yr old....more often 4-5. But for an average unbroke or barely backed baby? I just don't think $10k is reasonable.

BTW - I do think $10k is perfectly reasonable for a baby (weanling, yearling, etc) with the right lineage..which means to me, show records AND prepotence. One with a shot at the big time, but it's all still a big question mark. (I can think of one sire that I ADORE that threw average babies that didn't come close to what he was. I always wanted one of his babies and after seeing many of them grow up I had to change my mind. There was one outlier from early in his breeding career, but many of the rest were m'eh...and not worth the price being asked for them, IMO. )
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smorse
Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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He's cute as a bug, I'm sure he can jump (with Lotus T as the sire). Too much knee action at the trot, I think it will get more action as he gets more comfortable being ridden.

Just don't forget he's a baby, please don't do any 'come to jesus' shit when he does baby stuff. And, I think you'll be in for some baby antics with him, he might want to stop at the gate for a bit, but just cut that corner, like you were doing in the canter and ensure he keeps moving forward.

by the way, with Lotus T as the sire, you might end up with a jumper.

Again, I think he's super cute, and I'm not a fan of the draft cross.
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Kikki
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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I like him. He looks like a big ole oaf! His trot is reasonably inoffensive and I think he has a balanced nice canter. I put a lot of weight on the canter - I find that they almost always are good athletic jumpers if they have a good canter... This doesn't mean they jump like a hunter, but it usually is indicative of one that is naturally inclined to jump. When I bought O it was because he had a good canter. He wasn't far enough along to judge his form at the fences. He actually doesn't jump in typical hunter form but is very athletic at the jumps and has good scope so now Oreo is a jumper, and I think will jump a good size jump. If he is good brained I think he will ultimately be able to have a job doing something, be it hunter, jumper, or eq horse.
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Won for Me
Is the meadow on fire?
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I also like the pictures better than the video. I thought I saw some funny steps in the hind too. Yes, he is uncoordinated, but something to watch. He is a just a big baby and if he has a really good brain, that is worth a lot. I will be really curious to see how he jumps. Keep us posted!

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incentive
Magical Leopluridon
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What Kikki said. Probably not the hack winner a AA's, but who cares--- 1 hack, 4 o/f. He's adorable. The canter is more important than the trot anyway, and the trotwill most likely improve as he figures out where all of his parts go. I hope it goes well in the chute. :luck: :luck: :luck: Did I mention how cute he is?!?!
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BABYGREENTB
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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I think he is cute! However, if he is that substantial as a 3 year old, he's going to look a lot more drafty/chunky as an adult horse.
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Sparky Boy
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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Here's a cute pic of him. I wish he wasn't so DAMN BIG!
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lhunterl
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Is the meadow on fire?
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BABYGREENTB
Mar 19 2012, 06:48 AM
I think he is cute! However, if he is that substantial as a 3 year old, he's going to look a lot more drafty/chunky as an adult horse.
That was my concern. That draft blood has a way of really sneaking up on them in the 5yo/6yo year. Seen it happen with several friends' horses.. gorgeous at 3/4, obviously drafty by 6. Lotus T is very very tall (even taller than they list him as) so you can count on him being a very tall and very wide horse for sure.

But SparkyBoy can you find one this cheap for me in the jumper variety? :P The selection under 15k is pretty darn limited!
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Smiles
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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Sparky Boy
Mar 17 2012, 09:47 AM
Smiles - do you live in this area? We just got here in Sept so I haven't been to the shows to see what the competition and horse quality is like yet. It seems like at AA show or schooling. Not much in between.
I'm near Chicago but as far as A shows in your area those are the two place I would consider showing at. I know a bunch of people from wis/minn that go to midstates because they don't want to deal the $$$ for the shows at lamplight. I've heard they are well run and exhibitor pocket book friendly. I really want to try maffit lake. They are nice AA shows in the summer but you get your bang for your buck.

I agree with snacky about the 20k being a lot of many. I get that many trainers want a bigger commission so they want you to spend at the end of your budget, but why do they think they can not find a quality horse at a lower price range?
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CBoylen
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We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
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That's a lot of money for a horse with draft bloodlines in it. I broke a three year old one last year that will make someone a nice field hunter or local show horse. But it didn't have the jump to be a show ring hunter, even with a semi decent canter and natural lead changes. So I'd be really hesitant to say a horse of that breeding "should" jump, even with a decent canter. Especially a big horse like that. This is the one I started, for comparison. It's significantly cheaper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4gWbz9jkgU .
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Sparky Boy
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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CBoylen
Mar 19 2012, 06:21 PM
That's a lot of money for a horse with draft bloodlines in it. I broke a three year old one last year that will make someone a nice field hunter or local show horse. But it didn't have the jump to be a show ring hunter, even with a semi decent canter and natural lead changes. So I'd be really hesitant to say a horse of that breeding "should" jump, even with a decent canter. Especially a big horse like that. This is the one I started, for comparison. It's significantly cheaper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4gWbz9jkgU .
That's a cute one too, but I have a weakness for greys!

I agree its too much. Something tells me they'd be offended with an offer of half. Which I still think is high for him. The selection in the Midwest is far different than the Mid Atlantic that Im use to.
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Sparky Boy
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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Smiles
Mar 19 2012, 04:43 PM
Sparky Boy
Mar 17 2012, 09:47 AM
Smiles - do you live in this area? We just got here in Sept so I haven't been to the shows to see what the competition and horse quality is like yet. It seems like at AA show or schooling. Not much in between.
I'm near Chicago but as far as A shows in your area those are the two place I would consider showing at. I know a bunch of people from wis/minn that go to midstates because they don't want to deal the $$$ for the shows at lamplight. I've heard they are well run and exhibitor pocket book friendly. I really want to try maffit lake. They are nice AA shows in the summer but you get your bang for your buck.

I agree with snacky about the 20k being a lot of many. I get that many trainers want a bigger commission so they want you to spend at the end of your budget, but why do they think they can not find a quality horse at a lower price range?
I boarded at Maffitt when we first got here last fall and were building our barn. The new Equestrian center looks lovely. You should make the trip. I will likely show there in May. I'm sure we'll end up at Midstates sometime this summer as well.

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Sparky Boy
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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The Supersized beast arrived this morning. He'll go home on Friday. ;)
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TarynJ
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Guiding your way to Candy Mountain, since 1873.
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Kassandra
Mar 17 2012, 07:54 PM
Sparky Boy
Mar 17 2012, 07:42 PM
Snackpack, you and I have about the same budget range. They are asking 10k for this one and a similarly bred mare the same age. I think they are both way overpriced.
Thank goodness you say that. I get SO FLIPPING TIRED of people trying to make me feel like I am being cheap with a 20k budget. On what planet is 20 thousand dollars not a lot of money? And I know damn well you CAN get a nice horse for 10k, and people WAY over inflate how much it takes to raise a horse when you have your own property. sigh.
You need to come up here to shop... you can go a VERY long way on that kind of budget here!
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