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dog kills pregnant owner; sad days indeed
Topic Started: Aug 16 2011, 08:37 AM (1,515 Views)
Reynard Ridge
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What LF said.

It's not the breed that's the problem. People are morons and make incredibly stupid decisions about animals. I don't know how you solve that.



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gunnar
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I agree with LF but the problem still exists no matter who we blame. I search for solutions but beyond unenforceable regulations don't work. The police in Oakland spend there time on gang violence not pitt bull types. But guess who owns them. Those same gang members who just shot a 3 year old child in a drive by shooting

I need to move to TImbuktoo where pitty attacks are less common!
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Trialbyfire
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LostFarmer
Aug 17 2011, 09:42 AM
This has nothing to do with the breed of dog but rather man breeding a dog for a purpose then someone else wanting to make that dog something it is not. Pits were bred to be tenacious fighters to clamp down and not give in. Then humans somehow decide that they will make great family pets. You see it with herding dogs that get turned into apartment pets. Boarder Collies make terrible pets if you don't have space and time to run the energy off them. Breed a dog to run 100 miles a day chasing sheep then lock them in an apartment and see furniture get made into chew toys. We do the same with horses. Breed a horse up to be a draft horse then try and make it a dressage horse and wonder why it can't compete. That does not mean with proper socialization and much work a pit won't make a good pet. Kady has shown it can. I have been around some great pits. I love BC but I would never have one if I didn't have cattle and 20 acres.

I don't blame the dog or the breed. More I blame humans for putting a dog in a situation that it is ill suited for.

Yes and no. Pit type of dogs are certainly powerful, and therefore can be more physically dangerous than other breeds.

But, to be honest, the sheer number of pit type breeds in shelters proves that the problem is poor and accidental breeding. I don't believe that pit bulls (or pit bull types) are simply "hard wired" to attack without warning or with little provocation, to be dangerous and unpredictable. That is what happens when dogs are poorly and accidentally bred -- breeding not being controlled for anything -- conformation, temperment, health (except, in some cases, for traits that are not socially acceptable.)

This is a breed that was historically bred for some fighting sports (among many other uses not related to fighting)....but truly....how long ago was that....150 years? Since then some have been "bred" for underground fighting circles, and gained popularity for being a tough guy's dog.....not exactly what I would call selective "breeding".....and sadly, there are obviously some pit type dogs that are truly not trustworthy....although I'm sure the vast majority are.

I'd be interested to know the pedigree history on these type of dogs that have been problematic....I would doubt that "good breeders" of these dogs (Am Staffs, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Bull Terriers, etc.) have problems with these dogs going beserk and attacking them at home.

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kady05
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Reynard Ridge
Aug 17 2011, 10:51 AM
What LF said.

It's not the breed that's the problem. People are morons and make incredibly stupid decisions about animals. I don't know how you solve that.



Yup, basically!

The problem with Pit Bulls is that they're "the" breed right now, have been for awhile. They're easy to get, have large litters, and people can sell them and make money. People breed the crap out of crappy dogs with crappy genetics and *poof*, what do you get? Dogs predisposed to be human aggressive, which is NOT an acceptable breed trait AT ALL. I will say this, working with shelter dogs, I have yet to meet a truly HA Pit Bull. I have met two of the Vick dogs, both of whom were confirmed fighting dogs and they both rolled over on their backs when they greeted me LOL.

Bully breeds were specifically bred to be excessively human friendly.. how else do you think dog fighters can get into the pit with them and separate them when they're fighting without the dogs redirecting on them? HA Pit Bulls were euthanized by their breeders. If shelters were to start doing this (euthanizing dogs that displayed iffy temperaments), the breed wouldn't be in as big of a mess as it is today.. but unfortunately, so many have the "save them all" mentality which is just stupid, IMO.

As for breed bans (BSL), there have been numerous studies showing that they DON'T work. In fact, many places that have breed bans have higher instances of dog bites after they've been put into place. Here's a couple links on that (some are .pdf files):

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/NNB%20now%20available%20in%20JAVMA-2.pdf

http://positively.com/2011/04/06/why-bsl-doesnt-work/

http://georgemanning.net/why-bsl-doesnt-work/

http://stopbsl.com/fortherecord/scientific-studies/

http://stopbsl.com/fortherecord/myths/

I could keep going. Many cities/counties that had BSL have now decided against it, after finally realizing that it doesn't work.
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kady05
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gunnar
Aug 17 2011, 10:54 AM
I need to move to TImbuktoo where pitty attacks are less common!
So you only care about when Pit Bulls attack someone? What about all the Labs that attack people, or the Huskies, or the other breeds? Of course they aren't reported on because no one cares about them. However, did you know that the first facial transplant was done on a woman whose Lab bit her face? Interesting, eh?

You might as well move to the moon if you want to be in an area where NO dog attacks happen.
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jillincolorado
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I agree and I think the problem not just with pit bulls but with ANY breed of dog is that they're generally easy to breed and sell and most people don't do their homework on genetics and temperament or heritable diseases and conditions (hip dysplasia, skin problems,...).

Did you all know that GREYHOUNDS were once considered unadoptable because they were not well socialized in the home? It took us forever to get the shelters to call us when they would come in because they were on the "bad" list of dogs and considered not trainable. :(

I have NEVER EVER MET a pit bull I didn't like, but then I have been fortunate to be around ones who have outstanding owners that did their homework beforehand or knew how to train and socialize them correctly.
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kady05
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Oh and one more thing, for anyone who is "pro" BSL.. hope you don't own one of these *75* breeds (or mixes of), because BSL affects them in certain areas, and by being for it, you're essentially helping it spread elsewhere..


1. AIREDALE TERRIER
2. AKBASH
3. AKITA
4. ALAPAHA BLUE BLOOD BULLDOG
5. ALASKAN MALAMUTE
6. ALSATIAN SHEPHERD
7. AMERICAN BULLDOG
8. AMERICAN HUSKY
9. AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER
10. AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER
11. AMERICAN WOLFDOG
12. ANATOLIAN SHEPHERD
13. ARIKARA DOG
14. AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOG
15. AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD
16. BELGIAN MALINOIS
17. BELGIAN SHEEPDOG
18. BELGIAN TURVUREN
19. BLUE HEELER
20. BOERBUL
21. BORZOI
22. BOSTON TERRIER
23. BOUVIER DES FLANDRES
24. BOXER
25. BULLDOG
26. BULL TERRIER
27. BULL MASTIFF
28. CANE CORSO
29. CATAHOULA LEOPARD DOG
30. CAUCASIAN SHEPHERD
31. CHINESE SHAR PEI
32. CHOW-CHOW
33. COLORADO DOG
34. DOBERMAN PINSCHER
35. DOGO DE ARGENTINO
36. DOGUE DE BORDEAUX
37. ENGLISH MASTIFFS
38. ENGLISH SPRINGER SPANIEL
39. ESKIMO DOG
40. ESTRELA MOUNTAIN DOG
41. FILA BRASILIERO
42. FOX TERRIER
43. FRENCH BULLDOG
44. GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG
45. GOLDEN RETRIEVER
46. GREENLAND HUSKY
47. GREAT DANE
48. GREAT PYRANEES
49. ITALIAN MASTIFF
50. KANGAL DOG
51. KEESHOND
52. KOMONDOR
53. KOTEZEBUE HUSKY
54. KUVAZ
55. LABRADOR RETRIEVER
56. LEONBERGER
57. MASTIFF
58. NEOPOLITAN MASTIFF
59. NEWFOUNDLAND
60. OTTERHOUND
61. PRESA DE CANARIO
62. PRESA DE MALLORQUIN
63. PUG
64. ROTTWEILER
65. SAARLOOS WOLFHOND
66. SAINT BERNARD
67. SAMOYED
68. SCOTTISH DEERHOUND
69. SIBERIAN HUSKY
70. SPANISH MASTIFF
71. STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER
72. TIMBER SHEPHERD
73. TOSA INU
74. TUNDRA SHEPHERD
75. WOLF SPITZ
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Predisposition towards violence AND the tools to do it? Thanks, I'll steer clear of those breeds, Pits at the top of the list, sorry but true. I've met some truly nice and well behaved ones and have friends who act as "breed stewards" with theirs. There's a number of other breeds on Kady's list I wouldn't have in my house, either.

I have to laugh at the Pug, though....really?!

Sure, my Pomeranian bites....but really, what's he gonna do? I AM GLAD to see #31 on there...one attacked us on our walk and thankfully, didn't kill my dog due to my husband being there. Scary.
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kady05
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FWIW, I had a friend that received 50 stitches in her hand from a bite from a... Chihuahua. ANY breed can bite, ANY breed can do damage. To say a Pomeranian can't is silly.. we had one at the shelter that put a couple holes in one of the staff, actually.

BSL is pretty much the equivalent to racism. Should we ban black men because statistically, they're more likely to commit murder? Don't think that would go over very well!
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gunnar
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Ok Kady I didn't post this story to argue about Pitt Bulls. I posted it to reveal the horror! My comment about moving comes from living in the bay area where there are major problems with them. Seems every week they make the news. I never said I wanted to ban dogs. Please don't put words or thoughts in my mouth.

I am going to go spend time with my collie thank you very much!
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kady05
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gunnar
Aug 17 2011, 12:52 PM
Ok Kady I didn't post this story to argue about Pitt Bulls. I posted it to reveal the horror! My comment about moving comes from living in the bay area where there are major problems with them. Seems every week they make the news. I never said I wanted to ban dogs. Please don't put words or thoughts in my mouth.

I am going to go spend time with my collie thank you very much!
Your tone in the post makes it sound like you would be pro-BSL. That and you specifically asked me what I proposed, so I answered. No arguing at all.

Perhaps you should go visit with BAD RAP, one of the largest Pit Bull rescues in the country (they got quite a few of the Vick dogs), and they're in your area. Maybe that'd help you learn more about the breed so you don't feel like you have to move ;)
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gunnar
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What did you propose? And you are mistaken about my tone. I am not moving because of pitt bulls. I get tired of them killing people and pets. Killing not just biting.

I know plenty of wonderful pitty types. But they don't make the news. Until you have walked in my shoes keep your opinions of my tone to yourself!


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kady05
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gunnar
Aug 17 2011, 01:17 PM
What did you propose? And you are mistaken about my tone. I am not moving because of pitt bulls. I get tired of them killing people and pets. Killing not just biting.

I know plenty of wonderful pitty types. But they don't make the news. Until you have walked in my shoes keep your opinions of my tone to yourself!


Seriously? Walked in your shoes? Do you know what breed of dogs I own? Hello! I walk in your shoes everyday when people ask my why I would own dogs that "are going to kill me someday" (yes, someone has told me that before). I'm aware that Pit Bull type dogs have been involved in attacking people, and animals, not denying that. But other breeds do the same thing. ANY dog can bite, ANY dog can kill someone or an animal.

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm

What do I propose? Continuing to educate people about responsible dog ownership. Not indiscriminately breeding dogs just for the money. More low cost spay/neuter clinics, more low cost training classes. Shelters and animal control facilities being more responsible with who they adopt dogs out to and mandatory spay/neuter on all dogs that are in the shelter system BEFORE they leave (and if shelters don't have the funds to do that, euthanize the dogs). Piper's mom was a dog that was adopted from our local animal control; you go in, pay $45, get an intact dog and off you go to start your puppy business!

And you're right, despite there being NUMEROUS ones out there, the good Pit Bull type dogs very rarely make the news. Funny how that works, isn't it?
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gunnar
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I didn't mean those shoes Kady. Your proposals are great and want I wanted to hear. Just wish they worked.
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Kassandra
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Well I have owned a 100lb Pit Bull, as well as worked as a vet tech in several animal hospitals over a 10 year period. Fwiw, the only dog bite I have ever had that sent me to the hospital was from a Basenji. Talk about a nasty breed of dog. And they attack quickly and unprovoked like a cat! The worst dogs we had come into the clinic that we were always wary of were the Asian breeds like Shar Pei's, Chow's, Akita's, etc...

Anyway, that said, I truly believe that the bigger problem in this particular case (and most other cases with all breeds) is the fact that the dogs were not neutered! Our giant Pit Bull would become aggressive/jealous towards me when I first met my husband, and I basically gave him an ultimatum, cut the balls off or I am gone. He was 6 years old at the time, and from the moment his testicles were removed he was never aggressive towards another person again.

It is sad, but the fact is a big, un-nuetered dog no matter what the breed can be a danger to people, the same was a stallion can be.
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