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Dog Food; ....again.....
Topic Started: May 6 2010, 12:58 PM (616 Views)
Black Tack
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I know we have had a few topics on dog food but I have been wondering about something for awhile and wanted to check in with all of you dog owners to see what you do.

I heard a discussion the other day regarding switching up the protein sources of dog food. I had always thought that you should keep it the same to avoid upset tummy problems but now am hearing that that is often a cause of allergies(being on the same food for long periods of time). They are saying that dogs should have variety and that if you change the protein source but keep with the same manufacturer their tummies should be fine and it's actually better for them.

Just talking about kibble at this point.

Milo eats California Naturals Lamb and Rice kibble every single day. I used to add in a bit of wet food but he was getting the runs so I have stuck just with kibble and a bit of rice and he has been just fine. They are saying that the runs are more from too much food than the addition of the wet. I'm not sure about that.

Do you guys switch the kibble around, daily? weekly? and are their tummies ok?

The other thing that JTM and I have been wondering is if some of this super quality dog food is too rich for them. Is it possible that it's just too rich, too much protein possibly ?
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onwego
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Currently my dog eats Natural Balance but I was thinking about trying her on Wellness as she is occasionally getting some diarrhea. I had her on Wellness briefly a few years ago and liked it but changed because it was no longer offered at the store I went to. I live in a new area now and have access to it again.
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MyGiantPony
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My vet and I just had this conversation. He's of the opinion that you should keep them on the same thing unless/until they develop a problem because changing can upset the balance of bacteria in their digestive tract.

I feed the CA Naturals Lamb and Rice too, and my guys are doing great on it - in fact Aunt Pittypat is up from the 10 lbs when I got her to a very healthy 15 lbs.
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Indy
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Riley gets Innova adult dog dry food. He's eaten it daily for 3+ years now. While I'm sure he'd enjoy a bit more of a food variety (like a nice steak or a jar of peanut butter on occasion), I'm afraid of stomach upset if we rotated his food. Though he's got an iron stomach so he would probably be just fine.
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Delia
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Delia has been on Neutro large breed puppy kibble, and then large breed adult going on 8 years now. And she's never had any allergy issues. At her recent annual exam the vet was commenting on how good her skin and coat are. Pepper also has been on it for the 2 years we've had him with no skin problems. We do, however, give them people food in moderation, so I don't know if that makes any difference. Mostly fruit and veggies (they both LOVE bananas, carrots and avocado), and usually a few morsels of whatever we've had for dinner.
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kady05
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Black Tack
May 6 2010, 12:58 PM
I know we have had a few topics on dog food but I have been wondering about something for awhile and wanted to check in with all of you dog owners to see what you do.

I heard a discussion the other day regarding switching up the protein sources of dog food. I had always thought that you should keep it the same to avoid upset tummy problems but now am hearing that that is often a cause of allergies(being on the same food for long periods of time). They are saying that dogs should have variety and that if you change the protein source but keep with the same manufacturer their tummies should be fine and it's actually better for them.

Just talking about kibble at this point.

Milo eats California Naturals Lamb and Rice kibble every single day. I used to add in a bit of wet food but he was getting the runs so I have stuck just with kibble and a bit of rice and he has been just fine. They are saying that the runs are more from too much food than the addition of the wet. I'm not sure about that.

Do you guys switch the kibble around, daily? weekly? and are their tummies ok?

The other thing that JTM and I have been wondering is if some of this super quality dog food is too rich for them. Is it possible that it's just too rich, too much protein possibly ?
I don't do it, but I know a lot of people that do (switch protein sources occasionally) and have no issues doing so. I would never switch a food weekly, as you're supposed to take at least that long to completely switch over. The people I know that do it switch every 3-5 months, depending on the dog.

For me personally, I have Wilson on Canidae grain free, which he has done amazing on. He was also on the CA Natural Lamb & Rice prior to this, and I wanted to get him off of all grains, so I switched to the Canidae. Surprisingly, it has chicken in it, which he had an issue with when I fed him Chicken Soup as a puppy, so I switched to a lamb based formula. It is kind of interesting that he ate a lamb based formula for awhile and now is fine with something with chicken in it.

Piper is on the Canidae lamb/rice for now as I don't like feeding puppies high protein foods (Canidae grain free is on the low end of the grain frees and has 33% protein, lamb/rice version has 21%). She has done fairly well on it (switched her from Chicken Soup), but still has inconsistent stools, so I'm considering just putting her on a grain free food.

I've found that more dogs have issues with grains vs. different proteins, so if a dog is having issues on a food, try switching to grain free. CA Natural is a good food, but it doesn't have a lot of meat in it, which I don't like. Here's the review on Dog Food Analysis (which is an AWESOME site for dog food): http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=437&cat=4

Honestly,CA Natural is not a 'rich' food, so that shouldn't be an issue. Rich foods are the foods that are high in protein (which are almost always the grain free foods), like Innova Evo, Taste of the Wild, etc. Wilson tried TOTW, and could NOT handle it, which is why I switched him to the Canidae. It's grain free and doesn't have crazy high protein levels. Plus, it has almost 500 calories/cup, which means I feed him about 2 1/4 cups a day and he does great. Saves money!
Edited by kady05, May 6 2010, 02:20 PM.
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MayaTy02
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My dog is on Taste of the Wild Pacific version and she's doing ok. she gained a tremendous amount of weight when I switched her from Eukanuba senior to Acana so we had to find something lower protein and calories. The good news is that her ears seem to have cleared up so she may have had an allery to the grains in the other food. I don't like the state of her coat and skin right now, but maybe she just needs a bath :)
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Fish Cheeks
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OMG, what a timely topic! A little while ago I switched from Natural Balance to Taste of the Wild salmon. I then switched (too abruptly) to the Taste of the Wild bison and poor little Wildebeast has been up in the middle of the night for the past three nights with the runs (we've gone to rice and back to the salmon but she's still a little upset). I think the Bison is a pretty hearty protein and maybe just too much for her? It even smells very rich! So I thought maybe you could switch proteins between brands but now I think not.
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JumpTheMoon
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I can't figure out the food thing. I tried Kena on Wellness, TOTW and Oven Baked and she had super soft stools and/or the runs on all of them. We finally git it kind of under control on CN Chicken and Rice but she still only had a "hard" stool MAYBE once a week. The rest of the time or was super soft and bright green or runny. And thats with giving her more than 1/2 a cup LESS than what it says on the bag, and so needless to say she still looks like a poodle greyhound :( I really think even CN was too rich for her, but maybe I was feeding the wrong protein source?

I was talking to my groomer who said they put all of their foster dogs on Orijen, which is grain free and all of the ingredients are from Canada. Its a highly rated food, but then I have read SOOOO many bad reviews on it, and its so high in protein that I don't see how Kena won't have the runs.

I'm so tired of switching foods just to realize they don't work for her. Cal Naturals is supposed to be a "safe" bet for sensitive tummies. So last week I started the switch back to Kirkland brand food which she was on for the 4 years before I bought her. I would RATHER feed her something else, but I can not get weight on her and I can not get her tummy issues under control and she seems to be OK on this.

At least her coat is nice....for now?

Plus P&G just bought Natura so I'm not sure how I feel about switching back to CN or to Innova or Evo.
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kady05
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Fish Cheeks
May 6 2010, 03:15 PM
OMG, what a timely topic! A little while ago I switched from Natural Balance to Taste of the Wild salmon. I then switched (too abruptly) to the Taste of the Wild bison and poor little Wildebeast has been up in the middle of the night for the past three nights with the runs (we've gone to rice and back to the salmon but she's still a little upset). I think the Bison is a pretty hearty protein and maybe just too much for her? It even smells very rich! So I thought maybe you could switch proteins between brands but now I think not.
TOTW is a VERY rich food. I honestly wouldn't feed it to puppies.. too high in protein for me, and many, many dogs can't handle it, much less pups. It's an awesome food, but only if your dog can handle it obviously.
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kady05
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JumpTheMoon
May 6 2010, 04:31 PM
I can't figure out the food thing. I tried Kena on Wellness, TOTW and Oven Baked and she had super soft stools and/or the runs on all of them. We finally git it kind of under control on CN Chicken and Rice but she still only had a "hard" stool MAYBE once a week. The rest of the time or was super soft and bright green or runny. And thats with giving her more than 1/2 a cup LESS than what it says on the bag, and so needless to say she still looks like a poodle greyhound :( I really think even CN was too rich for her, but maybe I was feeding the wrong protein source?

I was talking to my groomer who said they put all of their foster dogs on Orijen, which is grain free and all of the ingredients are from Canada. Its a highly rated food, but then I have read SOOOO many bad reviews on it, and its so high in protein that I don't see how Kena won't have the runs.

I'm so tired of switching foods just to realize they don't work for her. Cal Naturals is supposed to be a "safe" bet for sensitive tummies. So last week I started the switch back to Kirkland brand food which she was on for the 4 years before I bought her. I would RATHER feed her something else, but I can not get weight on her and I can not get her tummy issues under control and she seems to be OK on this.

At least her coat is nice....for now?

Plus P&G just bought Natura so I'm not sure how I feel about switching back to CN or to Innova or Evo.
How often are you switching her food? You should give the new food at least a month before trying another kind.

Orijen is a great food, but you're right, very rich, so seeing as she hasn't done well on the other stuff, I'd try something with less protein. And honestly, there are going to be bad reviews on any food you look up, because every dog is different and has different requirements. There will never be a food that ALL dogs do well on.
Have you tried Natural Balance? Or the Merrick Before Grain (or even just one of the Merrick foods)? Both are good foods. Also the Canidae that I feed Wilson you could try.. he's done awesome on it and he has a sensitive stomach.

If the Kirkland food is what works for her, then so be it. My cats eat Authority from PetsMart.. I HATE it, but I've tried numerous other high quality brands and they just don't do well, so I've given up.

You can try adding in some canned pumpkin to her food to firm her stools up. I also have my dogs on a digestive supplement, which they've been on since I got both of them and I feel it does help: http://yhst-16232421414542.stores.yahoo.net/44103.html
I recently upped Piper's amount of this that I give her, and her stools firmed up the past 2 days. Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but you never know!
Edited by kady05, May 6 2010, 05:17 PM.
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JumpTheMoon
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I can't leave her on something for a month that gives her full blown diahrea! That's what the TOTW and Oven Baked did. Wellness she was on for probably a month, maybe 6 weeks, and then we started with Cal Nat and she's been on that for probably 8 months.

I haven't tried Natural Balance, but it does seem to be often recommended. I think of it as very similar to California Naturals so I'm not sure it would make much of a difference?

I'm also wondering what if I did 1/2 and 1/2 Kirkland and a higher quality food? Maybe that would be a bit better for her, but not quite as rich as full high-quality food.

She does get 1/2 cup of rice with her dinner and as of 3 days ago I started adding a tablespoon of canned pumpkin. It seems to have helped, but now she has this gross white film around her poo near the end. Sorry, thats really gross, but it looks like her poo is wearing a condom lol. But at least its firm-ish right now and has been for a whole 3 days! The rice I've been giving her for about 6 months to try and get her fatter, but it obviously isn't working.

Booo! I wish I could just give her pizza and chicken wings and some beer!
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kady05
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JumpTheMoon
May 6 2010, 05:35 PM
I can't leave her on something for a month that gives her full blown diahrea! That's what the TOTW and Oven Baked did. Wellness she was on for probably a month, maybe 6 weeks, and then we started with Cal Nat and she's been on that for probably 8 months.

I haven't tried Natural Balance, but it does seem to be often recommended. I think of it as very similar to California Naturals so I'm not sure it would make much of a difference?

I'm also wondering what if I did 1/2 and 1/2 Kirkland and a higher quality food? Maybe that would be a bit better for her, but not quite as rich as full high-quality food.

She does get 1/2 cup of rice with her dinner and as of 3 days ago I started adding a tablespoon of canned pumpkin. It seems to have helped, but now she has this gross white film around her poo near the end. Sorry, thats really gross, but it looks like her poo is wearing a condom lol. But at least its firm-ish right now and has been for a whole 3 days! The rice I've been giving her for about 6 months to try and get her fatter, but it obviously isn't working.

Booo! I wish I could just give her pizza and chicken wings and some beer!
:teehee: poo wearing a condom :teehee: :o

I understand on the not giving her the food for a full month, that's just what I've been told by a lot of people. However, Wilson had the same issues you're describing when I tried TOTW.

So on any of the foods has she done just a tad bit better before getting loose? She's just now getting loose again on the CA Natural, right (just trying to make sure I read this all right)? Have you tried a different formula of CA Natural, like the lamb?

Natural Balance is similar to CA Natural, but they have other formulas as well. Like they have a Venison formula, which you could try.

You could definitely try 1/2 and 1/2, whatever works! I switched Wilson to the Canidae grain free VERY slow (like, I added a small handle the first 5 days then built up from there) and had a nice mixture of his CA Natural and the Canidae going. There's actually still some CA Natural in there, and like I said, it's been 2 months since I switched. Just today I bought a new bag of the Canidae, so he'll be on straight Canidae now. He did well on CA Natural, but I like grain free better, so I switched.

What I would do if I had her would be to ONLY give her cooked chicken and rice for a week. Let her stomach rest. Then very slowly start adding in whatever food you'd like to try next. This is what I had to do with Wilson after the Chicken Soup & TOTW 'blow out' episodes, it was recommended by my vet. She more than likely won't poop for a couple days, which is fine (since she won't be taking in as many calories). Wait until she has a normal poop, then start adding the kibble back in. It worked for me!
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Onelanerode
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I've had my hound mix on CN herring and sweet potato for at least a year now. Two years ago, he developed ear problems that we finally (after $3k at the vet!) traced to a food allergy. I took him off the CN lamb and rice he was on at the time and switched him to the CN herring and sweet potato, and within two weeks his hears were back to normal. I'm still not sure exactly what ingredient (protein or carb, or something else) caused his problems, and I've tried him on several other foods since, but we keep coming back to the CN herring and sweet potato. He handled the Canidae salmon grain free, but he was excreting so much protein/nitrogen in his urine that the grass was turning brown. So I thought no point in feeding protein he wasn't using. His ears flared back up when I tried the TOTW fish formula. Back to the CN he went, and he's been there ever since.

The lab/pit mix eats the TOTW fish formula and a flaxseed-based joint supplement. He does well on that and does not appear to have any allergies/stomach issues when I change foods with him. He had problems when we first got him and fed him Canidae ALS, but he was not a very healthy dog when we got him, so I am betting his overall poor health was more to blame for his initial skin problems than the food.

I'd like to try Orijen, but I'm scared to switch things up on Truman and risk his allergies flaring up again. I try to feed Winston the absolute best food I can afford ... it's silly, probably, but I know he had a crappy start in life, so I'm trying to buy him as much time as possible by giving him a good diet now.

I've been toying with the raw diet, but the time element is keeping me from doing it right now.

I'm just so glad I have access to several independent pet shops that carry the higher-end foods. :)
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kady05
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Onelanerode
May 6 2010, 06:09 PM
He handled the Canidae salmon grain free, but he was excreting so much protein/nitrogen in his urine that the grass was turning brown. So I thought no point in feeding protein he wasn't using. His ears flared back up when I tried the TOTW fish formula. Back to the CN he went, and he's been there ever since.


I've been toying with the raw diet, but the time element is keeping me from doing it right now.

I'm just so glad I have access to several independent pet shops that carry the higher-end foods. :)
That's really interesting.. I didn't know that too much protein could cause grass to turn yellow. I think Piper's the one killing all of my grass though, I've heard that 'girl pee' can be stronger than males.

I've considered raw before.. but I absolutely HATE raw meat and don't think I could do it!
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