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Child's saddle recommendation; Whiny plea for help!
Topic Started: Jun 3 2009, 01:08 PM (1,774 Views)
Trialbyfire
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So I've been searching for what seems like forever to find my older dd a used saddle....ideally for her 11th birthday which is in 3 weeks....so that may not happen. I'm not having much luck....have a possibly line on a Pessoa Pony saddle from this board but not sure.

For those of you who have children or who teach children....can you give me your thoughts? It's getting to the point where we are likely going to have to buy new [shudder] but we have 2 kids that ride (3 years apart), and it seems that there must be other buyers out there for when it's outgrown.

This is going to be for her to use in lessons, not for a horse that we own. So it has to be somewhat adaptable, to the extent any saddle can be. The instructor is fine letting kids use saddles on multiple horses so long as they are not ridiculously ill-fitting....and requires felt pads for all lesson horses anyway....none of the lesson horses have their *own* saddles perfectly fitted already.

The tack store I like best does not have demos in kids sizes; and although it's possible that I can find a tack store that does....I'm wondering if there is that *perfect* saddle [moderately inexpensive] out there that we should just buy and be done with it......e.g. Pessoa Rodrigo Pony? Dover Circuit Pony? She is currently riding in tiny school saddles that are about 14"; trainer has recommended getting her a 15". No way she'll fit in a 16" yet.

She is doing a week long camp with 5 other kids for those just starting jumping at the beginning of July so I really wanted something by then. Never expected it to be so hard to buy a decent used kids' saddle. :no: Most of what I've seen are AP saddles and basically junk.

Mom brag: she won her 3 flat classes last weekend in the school horse show (6 kids in the class) and one of the girls was her own lesson mate so she was pretty psyched. Here's a pic:

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jn4jenny
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The names I hear over and over again in kid's saddles are the Pessoa Pony, the Collegiate Ian Miller, and the Stubben Rex. For a very wide pony, you hear a lot of buzz about the Thorowgood synthetics, the Thornhill Pro/Am, the Wintec/Bates CC's, and the Duett Piccolo. But really, the Pessoa Pony/Stubben Rex/Collegiate Ian Miller are the standards in children's saddlery.

Bucks County Saddlery seems to keep a jillion kid's size saddles in stock, so you might check with them:
http://www.bcsaddlery.com/esaduc.htm

as does Usedsaddles.com:
http://www.usedsaddles.com/search.htm?cat=vmtg3ss9

as does Pelham Saddlery:
http://www.pelham-saddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=uchild

Saddler's Row has several, including the mighty Pessoa Pony in 15":
http://www.saddlersrow.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=393&DEPARTMENT_ID=63

Anyway, the point is that you shouldn't have to go new and shouldn't lack for inventory. The saddles are around and as you said, there is always another kid waiting for the saddle when it's been outgrown.
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Trialbyfire
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jn4jenny
Jun 3 2009, 01:59 PM
The names I hear over and over again in kid's saddles are the Pessoa Pony, the Collegiate Ian Miller, and the Stubben Rex. For a very wide pony, you hear a lot of buzz about the Thorowgood synthetics, the Thornhill Pro/Am, the Wintec/Bates CC's, and the Duett Piccolo. But really, the Pessoa Pony/Stubben Rex/Collegiate Ian Miller are the standards in children's saddlery.

Bucks County Saddlery seems to keep a jillion kid's size saddles in stock, so you might check with them:
http://www.bcsaddlery.com/esaduc.htm

as does Usedsaddles.com:
http://www.usedsaddles.com/search.htm?cat=vmtg3ss9

as does Pelham Saddlery:
http://www.pelham-saddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=uchild

Saddler's Row has several, including the mighty Pessoa Pony in 15":
http://www.saddlersrow.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=393&DEPARTMENT_ID=63

Anyway, the point is that you shouldn't have to go new and shouldn't lack for inventory. The saddles are around and as you said, there is always another kid waiting for the saddle when it's been outgrown.
Thanks Jenny! I've seen most of these (hadn't seen the Saddler's Row site yet)....and this is sort of my quandry.

I am definitely looking for a saddle with knee rolls, so that eliminates everything from the bcsaddlery site in size 15". So this is what I've found:

Pessoa A/O $895 (wide tree) - usedsaddles.com
Ovation Jr. Jump $395 - used saddles.com
Ian Miller $395 - Pelhamsaddlery.com
Pessoa Pony [good condition] $650 - Saddlersrow.com
Beval World Cup [fair] $675 - saddlersrow.com

Or.....a new Pessoa Pony...which split between two kids and then reselling...might still be cheaper.....Dover has new Pessoa Pony for $809 right now.....

Which would you buy? I am leaning toward that Ian Miller......?
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jn4jenny
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Assuming it fit the kid + the pony, I would buy the Ian Miller. It's a very nice saddle for the price. Someone who was thinking about leasing Skyler two years ago had a Collegiate Ian Miller in 17", and I got to really look it over since she was a potential lessee. It was one of those oldie-but-goodie models that Collegiate made before they got purchased by Bates/Wintec, back when their stuff was solid as a rock.

If that doesn't do it for ya, then I'd call Saddlers Row and try and whittle that $650 price tag down based on the stitch wear on the flap of their Pessoa Pony (visible in the photo). See if you can talk them into $550 to make it worth your while.

And if they won't budge on that price then maybe you should buy a new Pessoa Pony at SmartPak, which will save you about $30 compared to paying the exhorbitant shipping at Dover:
http://www.smartpakequine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productclassid=4511
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Renn/aissance
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I don't know about the saddle in a pony size, but the Beval World Cup is my all-time favorite saddle and it fits just about everything. :yes: The best names for pony saddles, in my opinion, are the Crosby Prix des Nations and Beval. They are known for being well-balanced saddles that fit a variety of different types (albeit with a bump pad here and there.)

The Collegiate Ian Millar was made when Collegiate was still a Crosby (therefore a Miller's) brand, and I am sure it is of good quality although I personally find the leather to be a little stiffer than I would like for a kid on a fat pony who already has to squeeeeeeeeze to get Pony to go forward. Still, if that's the only bad thing you hear about a saddle, you're doing well. :) I think either the Ian Millar or the World Cup would be great buys, and I can tell you that the resale value on adult-sized World Cups is pretty good.
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Trialbyfire
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Thanks guys. My thoughts on the Beval World Cup was that the flap looked really long; it doesn't say long flap but I wonder if it is? My dd is still wearing size 8 jeans, so long flap is definitely not a good idea. Short flap may not be necessary but don't want to go longer than average. Here's the Ian Miller v. the Beval side by side:

Here's the Ian Miller
Posted Image

Here's the Beval World Cup
darn...the pic is huge when I embed it. Here's the link: http://www.saddlersrow.com/UserFiles/File/C14120.jpg

I think I will call about the Ian Miller saddle today. It's such a crap shoot with an 11 year old. It might fit for 2 years or 2 months. I definitely think I could resell pretty easily (heck, if something was for sale locally I'd have bought it already! I'm starting to understand why horse people buy up all sorts of tack they may not need immediately. I've seen some nice deals on other saddles that she might grow into someday....!

Thanks for your help! I'll keep you updated!
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Witchy
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I love, love, love the Ian Millers. I have one in 13", one in 14" and I just bought one for hubby who has started taking lessons. My small ones are wide and extra wide trees, and if you can find one in a wide or xtra wide tree for the ponies that would be ideal, but I'd live with the regular tree if that's all I could find. I had the flap on my 13" shortend to 10" but I left the 12" flap on the 14" it's a bit long, but she will grow into it before she outgrows the seat. If you want the flaps shortened this guy is amazing and does it from the bottom, so you don't wind up with a wierd looking saddle. http://duvallleatherwork.com/StoreFront.bok

The leather can be a little stiff, but if you heat vegtable oil, rub it in very well and get your hubby to bend and work the leather in both directions on the flap, it will soften up to butter.

Here's another old Collegiate at www.saddlesource.com The other one is in way better shape though.

http://www.saddlesource.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B22320
Edited by Witchy, Jun 4 2009, 10:10 AM.
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MayaTy02
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if you end up going with a new pessoa pony, this site seems to have the best price at $795 with free shipping....
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We started with the 14" Pessoa short flap but when my 2nd daughter started to ride I found a great deal on a 14" Beval Stamford. I like the Stamford much more than the Pessoa, it's softer, stickier and more balanced. In fact, I just bought a 15" off Ebay for 1/2 the price of a new one!
I have found that the Stamford has a shorter flap than most saddles, the 14" Short Flap pessoa and the 14" regular flap Stamford measures almost the same. My older daughter who has ridden in both saddles definately prefers the Stamford.
You can find decent ones for about $500, but they aren't always available. My first I bought for $450 and this last one I bought for $500. I think that I could certainly resell them for what I paid for them.
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Trialbyfire
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Thanks for all the advice! I've called about the Ian Miller but it has a stitching issue that the person thought would need to be repaired; the foam is actually showing at the seam of the knee roll (I think). She is having someone look at it today and I have it on hold until tomorrow while I think about it, but that could be a deal breaker because I'm not sure where I could get it repaired and if a wide tree would be better anyway, I need to think about that....The woman from Pelham was actually saying the same w/ regard to the gullet - she'd recommend a wide if ponies will be ridden, even if some small horses, too. So I'll talk about that w/ the trainer tomorrow a.m.

A lot of the school horses are horses, not ponies. In fact, the trainer only has 2 ponies, and a variety of other medium sized lesson horses. Any thoughts on gullet width if you ride both ponies and horses? It would seem a lot of smaller adults would have this same issue if they aren't riding just their one personally owned horse? Is this a problem for anyone else?

And I sent another email to the person who had the Pessoa Pony (wide)....she was from TOC to maybe the karma will line up and that one will be available. :luck:


Edited to add: can't believe my luck. Have called again to every tack store in 50 miles and found exactly ONE used size 15" saddle....and it's an Collegiate Ian Miller and only in Saratoga! :woot: Going to go check it out in person. About the same price as the other one but hopefully w/o a repair issue. Of course I was so excited I forgot to ask about the tree but since I'll see it later or tomorrow I'll find out.
Edited by Trialbyfire, Jun 4 2009, 12:39 PM.
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MayaTy02
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oooh ooooh, look at this nice saddle.....Isn't your saddle a Bates? And it's a "best offer" so you could get it for less. I like it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/KIDS-BATES-CAPRILLI-CC-Saddle-USED-15-Med-Tree-NICE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a3Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem563241510dQQitemZ370210328845QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported
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Trialbyfire
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OK, I've got a 15" Ian Miller on trial for dd to ride in on Tuesday and if it doesn't work out I think I have a line on a 15" Pessoa Pony. Thanks for all your help. I've decided that the birthday surprise isn't going to work well so it's going to have to be an early gift. Talked to the trainer today and she was willing to try to pass it off as someone else's saddle, etc., but I think my dd would figure it out anyway. So hoping to box it up tomorrow and give it to her as a b-day gift...and of course if the trial doesn't go well we'll keep looking.

It's pretty dirty looking and definitely well-used but hoping it will clean up nicely and of course it's most important that it's a quality saddle and not a piece of junk from some foreign country that will fall apart. So hoping my daughter likes it....of course what she really wants for her birthday is a camera so this could be a disappointment. :sigh:

Lucky there are grandmas and grandpas out there! :)

Thanks for all your help and I'll let you know how this ends up!

PS Maya, yes I ride in a Bates but I hate to spend $900 on a kid who may only fit in this saddle for 3 months! Who knows what puberty will bring?!?! The *next* saddle could be a nicer one! But...don't you have a dd riding in a 15" too????????? ;)
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MayaTy02
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I know but isn't it nice ;) And open to offers!

I hope the trial goes well! and yeah I hear ya on the camera thing, thank goodness for grandparents is right!

No my little one rides in a 14 and she most certainly doesn't need a saddle!
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Trialbyfire
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Just updating to let you all know that I've decided to buy TWO saddles! :psycho: Now I know how some of you seem to have so much to sell in the classified section! ;)

But after all this effort I've actually found two great saddles, two great deals and can't pass them up. I have the Ian Miller already and am eagerly awaiting a used Pessoa Pony from this board! Rather than try to have her take both on trial and figure it out in the next 7 days, I'm buying them both and will see which one is best for her, and the other one can be held for my 7 1/2 year old and hope it all works out for the best. :luck: It does look like the Ian Miller has longer flaps which could make for a difference in fit, so I'll be curious to see which works best for her.

Once my girls both outgrow them, I'm sure I won't have too much difficult re-selling them again.

I'll be wrapping up the Pessoa for her birthday this month and I'll be sure to give you all the details of the surprise! I hope she's as excited as I am!
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MayaTy02
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yeah!!! :) and I'm waiting in the wings for either saddle one day!!
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