RIP Kingpin

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RIP Kingpin; another fatality at Rolex
Topic Started: Apr 25 2009, 07:48 PM (539 Views)
Black Tack	Apr 25 2009, 07:48 PM Post #1
You're BANNED! Posts: 4,038 Group: Members Member #269 Joined: January 8, 2007	I am so glad that we didn't make the trip to Rolex this year. I don't think I could have handled seeing Kingpin go down upon landing at the 10th fence. Luckily Mike Winter is ok physically although I imagine it will take some time to get over. RIP Kingpin, you were beautiful and brave



La Gringa	Apr 26 2009, 09:46 AM Post #2
Starving Artist Posts: 2,953 Group: Members Member #550 Joined: January 22, 2007	I was almost scared to be truthful to see how things went this year, after last year. I am so sad that Kingpin died. I am friends with one of the Canadian Team members, and this is quite hard... on everyone. He was a great horse. I haven't heard the final necropsy report yet. Someone said it may have been a heart attack, and then another said a broken neck. Not sure if there is an update yet. God Speed Kingpin. A beautiful and very talented horse.



tarragon	Apr 26 2009, 09:47 AM Post #3
Is the meadow on fire? Posts: 1,528 Group: Members Member #1,122 Joined: June 9, 2007	It's such a shame, Kingpin was a lovely horse. Mike and Emma live in my little town. I just ran into them in Target recently and wished him luck at Rolex.



jillintexas	Apr 26 2009, 10:10 AM Post #4
You're BANNED! Posts: 7,606 Group: Members Member #96 Joined: January 6, 2007	Oh I LOVED Kingpin!!!



coriander	Apr 26 2009, 02:03 PM Post #5
Off visiting Candy Cave, be right back. Posts: 1,077 Group: Members Member #1,124 Joined: June 9, 2007	So sad. RIP Kingpin. This is why I generally don't attend. Every time I have attended, there has been a horse fatality.



Jersey Fresh	Apr 26 2009, 04:01 PM Post #6
Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Posts: 461 Group: Members Member #514 Joined: January 21, 2007	It was very sad and definately seemed to hurt the general morale of the crowd. I was hoping it would be incident free. Definately leaves a lot of questions up in the air of natural vs. unnatural causes of death....if these accidents/deaths are natural causes, why don't the horses drop in the jog or in the barn or out doing dressage. As a scientist, I am interested in what is going on physiologically on XC that results in these deaths.... It seems that it was a pulmonary embolism or aortic rupture again, reports have said Kingpin had blood in his abdomen. The broken neck was probally the result of the fall after the fence... Buck Davidson also almost got into a serious situation when a dog got loose and bit his horse, causing him a refusal. I dont know if he was able to protest those points or not.



Fish Cheeks	Apr 26 2009, 04:16 PM Post #7
It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure! Posts: 2,365 Group: Members Member #211 Joined: January 7, 2007	BT, I too am glad that we did not go this year. I had fun with all the TOCers (heck, was that last year!?), but it scares me too much thinking about all the catastrophes that happen on XC. Such a tragedy when a horse gives you all he's got and pays the ultimate price. JF, it would be an interesting area of study to focus on XC and why so many physiologically-related incidents/accidents. RIP Kingpin.



Bearhunter	Apr 26 2009, 04:55 PM Post #8
Thomas H. Cruise! Posts: 530 Group: Members Member #75 Joined: January 6, 2007	From what I understand there are fatalities daily on racetracks. We just don't hear about them. I am not an eventer (h/j here) so I am an outsider but it is scary hearing about these fatalities year after year. I know accidents happen but has it always been like this or are we just now hearing about it? So tragic and so sad.



jillintexas	Apr 26 2009, 04:56 PM Post #9
You're BANNED! Posts: 7,606 Group: Members Member #96 Joined: January 6, 2007	I know it's been talked to death on some of the boards, but is aortic rupture (or aneurysm) really any better than a broken neck? Statistically what are the odds that SO many XC horses die of this same complication?? It just doesn't make sense to me. It's a disproportionate amount if you tally the actual amount of entires competing at or higher. Seems to me that something has changed (Pace? Conditioning? Course? Rules?) and not for the better. There has been a serious accident/death/rotational fall/ruptured something-or-other at virtually EVERY major event for the past few years. Something is clearly out of whack. Bear I just read your post. I agree with racing, BUT if you take into account the NUMBER of horses that race annually around the world and compare that to the number of SERIOUS injuries/accidents/deaths it's a MUCH more proportionate number. Albeit not any ore acceptable, but that makes the risk MUCH lower. Also, this is a RECENT change. Eventing has never been without risk, but it has just SKYROCKETED in the past few years, basically since they changed the format. Edited by jillintexas**, Apr 26 2009, 04:58 PM.



Fish Cheeks	Apr 26 2009, 05:45 PM Post #10
It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure! Posts: 2,365 Group: Members Member #211 Joined: January 7, 2007	I suppose this question my be better on the COTH eventing board...and I'm sure it has been discussed to death...but is it possible/what wold it take to go back to the old format? I have evented some - competed at Novice, schooled Training and have NO desire to go any higher than that, so it's not like I ever have any hopes of running the long format. But it just seems that the roads and tracks phase set you up to 1) prepare and condition for that phase (which I would think leads to a more fit horse), and 2) when you are running that phase you can tell if something is NQR with your horse before you go and jump the big and technical jumps. Also, the courses now seem so trappy - short gallop, come back, set up, tight combination, short gallop, come back, set up, tight combination, oops there's another combination, etc... Mr. Fishy and I went to Ireland a couple of years ago and watched a HT there - it was soooooo long! I swear each obstacle was in its own five acre field and they'd jump over the field fences to get to the next field and obstacle, so LOTS of forward galloping. I only saw two trappy things there - two corners where the brush was too high (and was actually cut after the first few riders went), and a downhill approach to a skinny triple combo. The fences were big, they just weren't so technical and scary looking. Sigh. This is the one discipline where I have never had any desire to move up the levels and now don't even know how much I want to participate / spectate. I wonder about the future of the sport and how many people are turning away from it due to the continued accidents?



RNB	Apr 26 2009, 06:40 PM Post #11
It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure! Posts: 2,076 Group: Members Member #59 Joined: January 4, 2007	I will be the first to admit I know very little about eventing but it does sadden me to think of all the deaths I heard about in recent years. I hope things improve.



maxxtrot	Apr 26 2009, 07:06 PM Post #12
We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie! Posts: 252 Group: Members Member #953 Joined: April 11, 2007	ok, well, this death was not a result of a fence. this could have happened at home doing gallop sets, trot sets or schooling. also from friends that were there it seemed that king pin was a little funny apon approach to fence 10. looked like mike was trying to pull up.i am not sure of that though. just hear say for now. will hopefully get to talk to them soon. for whoever said why don"t horses drop dead in the dressage phase. well, there have been two that i recall doing that, i know one was a young riders horse and cannot for the life of me remember the other one.so, it does happen, but i think you hear more about the c.c phase thru the media. it reallydoes become a media circus.i once did see a beg.novice horse have this happen in warmup several years ago, i am sure nobody heard about that one(here in florida), so you see, you are hearing about so many deaths but all of them are upper level. so ask this, is this happening at the lower levela and we just don't hear about it, or now that the long format is gone, is there a problem emerging? i for one, do think that the change from the long format to the short format has caused for this to become a big problem. i know there are people that think that has nothing to do with it, but i personally do.like someone else said, gallop, whoa,jump, gallop, whoa, ect.. blood pressure going up and down, see where i am going with this? again, i am so glad mike is not hurt, and my thoughts and prayers are with them all all of kingpins owners and people.



Jersey Fresh	Apr 26 2009, 07:35 PM Post #13
Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Posts: 461 Group: Members Member #514 Joined: January 21, 2007	maxxtrot Apr 26 2009, 07:06 PM for whoever said why don"t horses drop dead in the dressage phase. well, there have been two that i recall doing that, i know one was a young riders horse and cannot for the life of me remember the other one.so, it does happen, but i think you hear more about the c.c phase thru the media. it reallydoes become a media circus.i once did see a beg.novice horse have this happen in warmup several years ago, i am sure nobody heard about that one(here in florida), so you see, you are hearing about so many deaths but all of them are upper level. so ask this, is this happening at the lower levela and we just don't hear about it, or now that the long format is gone, is there a problem emerging? My point with that comment is not that horses never drop dead in dressage or out in the field or whatever, but for some reason it seems these deaths are linked to the excertion associated with the XC phase. If you look back at the horses in the recent years that have died during events, vast majority have dropped dead during XC. That to me raises a red flag. Something is going on physiologically with either a) the sheer cardio-pulmonary output required during the entire phase b) a lack in fitness that going undetected during the vet check or c) the stress induced by the cycling between extremely high cardic output to less and back again over and over again(essentially interval training to the extreme). Deaths do occur at all levels, but I think the numbers would reflect, at least those associated with physiological problems rather than horse/rider error, occur at a higher frequency at these levels. That leads me to think that whatever is going on is associated with what is being asked of these horses physiologically not that is just we hear more about it because its a ** Regardless of what is going on, its very sad and not good for the morale and public image of our sport. I feel bad for Mike Winter for losing his partner in such a tragic way. Edited by Jersey Fresh**, Apr 26 2009, 07:36 PM.



FlashGordon	Apr 26 2009, 07:51 PM Post #14
Is the meadow on fire? Posts: 1,957 Group: Members Member #2,251 Joined: December 3, 2007	WOW so incredibly sad. All the horse deaths, rider injuries, etc. freak me out. I know very little about eventing but it seems like things really need to be looked at closely. It just doesn't seem safe. Jersey I think what you are saying makes perfect sense. Exertion, or lack of fitness, or something is contributing...



Black Tack	Apr 26 2009, 08:32 PM Post #15
You're BANNED! Posts: 4,038 Group: Members Member #269 Joined: January 8, 2007	Dr Jersey, I think what you are saying makes alot of sense as well and think it really needs to be considered and examined carefully. It may not have been a specific fence that caused this but I have a very hard time with people saying it was natural causes and therefore alluding to it not being connected to eventing. I don't buy that at all.



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