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| Boarding vs. Owning Property | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 21 2009, 11:45 AM (631 Views) | |
| FlashGordon | Jan 21 2009, 11:45 AM Post #1 |
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Hey folks.. I asked this on TOB but thought I'd get an opinion from you guys!! We are house hunting and the thought of buying acreage is in the back of our heads. We both would love a farmette, though we are not sure NOW is the right time. At most we'd keep 2-3 horses, one of which would be a boarder (anyone have info on that?? insurance considerations, etc.?) and probably 5-15 acres. There are some properties in our area that have a barn + acreage, or a house + acreage... few that have both. Any feedback is appreciated.... |
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| OTF | Jan 21 2009, 01:13 PM Post #2 |
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Flash, it can be absolutely wonderful to have your own animals on your own place! How exciting! Some things to keep in mind: 1) Get your facilities (shelter, water, fencing, hay storage, lighting, etc.) ready before the animals arrive. 2) There are no sick days, and no matter the weather, they depend on you for all their needs. Getting away for a day or night, or longer, requires having somebody TOTALLY reliable to cover for you, and this can be hard to find. You'll worry no matter what (but that can be true in a boarding situation too, I imagine). 3) Make friends with the county extension agent, hopefully a good one, who can advise you on pasture maintenance (and will usually come over to tell you what's IN your pasture if you don't know...just ask if he/she will visit), seeding, area resources for hay, bedding, manure disposal. 4) Think big...by that I mean allow yourself plenty of space for turning a trailer around, use bigger gates than you think you'll need, hay storage in a couple of places (square bales won't survive being stored outside). 5) If you end up in a new area, check out vets and farriers before you need them. 6) Your work will never be done, but it's rewarding to care for your own farm and have your horses at home. I'm no help on having a boarder or insurance involved with that, but you'll want to check around with insurance agents who will provide insurance for your own place; it can be a little different with animals. We had one company cancel our policy because they sent someone over who told them we have sheep! Huh? Donkeys are short and fuzzy, but they sure aren't sheep! I'll probably think of more stuff and add it when I do. It'll be interesting to see what other people post too! |
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| OpticalIllusion | Jan 21 2009, 01:20 PM Post #3 |
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I grew up with all our horses at home. My parents have a farm and a somewhat large collection of critters. I always said when I grew up I wanted my own farm. Now Im grown up, and Im keeping my horses at my parents as long as I possibly can. There are positives and negatives. If its to cold, if its to hot, if Im sick, if I want to go out, if I just dont feel like being horsey, it doesnt matter because I dont have to take care of them. However it has limited my riding time because I dont have time every day to go out there. (However I also ride for my job so its not like Im going without riding, just not getting the time on my personal pony) I know at my parents my horses have the best of care, something you cant guarantee at a boarding barn. I do have to work around whats going on at the farm though. I cant ride after 4 during the week and cant ride the first half of the day on saturday because of lessons. But I can keep my dad from using the nail gun or chain saw when Im trying to ride something bad. My mom is also always there, a big plus for a few reasons. She is there if I get hurt, she is good company to ride with, and she helps with things I need a set of eyes on the ground for. The ultimate setup would be to have the horses at home and hire someone to do the grunt work. Now just need a rich husband to finance that
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| FlashGordon | Jan 21 2009, 01:21 PM Post #4 |
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Thanks OTF and OI!! We are just sort of toying with the idea now. The biggest roadblock is my health, as it'd mean hubby'd be picking up the slack in caring for horses when I was really out of commission. He claims he is ok with that but I know how hard farm chores can be at times and I worry it'd be a lot of stress for him! We could buy a home w/ land now, with the hopes that my health situation may be a bit better down the line. Then go ahead and add shelter/pasture in 3-5 years and bring the horse home then. Or we could just wait, purchase a "regular" house now, then move again to a farm in 5-10 years... but it may be harder than as Little FG would be school-aged and used to a specific area, school, neighborhood, etc. Oh so many decisions.
Edited by FlashGordon, Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM.
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| FlashGordon | Jan 21 2009, 01:31 PM Post #5 |
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Not to mention, my dad keeps trying to get us to move to Middle TN!!!! A farm down there would be a whole lot easier... NO SNOW!
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| Trialbyfire | Jan 21 2009, 03:36 PM Post #6 |
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I'm sure I'll think of a bunch of things...some good....some not good! I've never boarded, however, although I take lessons at a boarding barn so I think I can pretty much imagine that route. What I will say off the top of my head is that building riding facilities is expensive, even just an outdoor arena and an indoor arena in our case is totally out of the question. So in the end I think you will likely ride less than if you board, or at least less often in inclement weather......which is pretty common in NY. ![]() But....personally I can't imagine having my horse at someone else's barn. She's *mine*. Who would take care of her like I do? Of course it doesn't hurt that she would be just as happy NOT being ridden. ![]() Let me think about this a bit. I think you can imagine the obvious pros and cons. Insurance gets tricky for the small hobby farmer but there are ways to manage that. |
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| Delia | Jan 21 2009, 04:14 PM Post #7 |
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I don't own my own farmette, but I've kept my gelding at one for 8 years. The owners have two horses, and keep my horse and another as boarders. They and their horses are gone for 6 months of the year and we boarders are responsible for caring for our horses and the farm while they're gone. Until I got married I would live on the farm for those 6 months, and now we're back living there again for a couple of months while our home is going through some renovations. So I have some insight into what it's like. It's wonderful to be able to provide exactly the type of care that I want for my horse, and even though I already had owned him for 5 years before I moved him there, we developed a very different, closer bond. And I could just gaze out at the fields and watch him all day. BUT -- the irony is that I ride him a whole lot less than when I kept him at my trainer's. Horse care + farm maintenance sucks up a lot of time. We have a guy who mucks our stalls, but even so, between feeding the horses, ordering the grain and shavings, finding/ordering/storing good hay, maintaining the fields, maintaining the fencing, dealing with downed trees, holding the horses for the vet and farrier, etc., plus working at a full-time job, it's a lot. There are only so many hours in the day, and unfortunately riding takes a back seat to the basic stuff. So . . . if you decide to go for it, I would recommend taking in a boarder who will be required to pitch in and help out. I actually don't pay any board per se. I only pay for the grain, hay and shavings that my horse actually consumes, and my share of what the stall guy charges. But I and the other boarder completely take care of the place for 6 months, and even when the owners are home we split chores with them and fill in when they are away. That way the owners get the help they need, and they don't have to deal with the income tax hassle of receiving board. Edited by Delia, Jan 21 2009, 04:16 PM.
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| OTF | Jan 21 2009, 04:25 PM Post #8 |
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Delia, despite the time-consuming maintenance, that sounds like a nice arrangement because there is someone trustworthy to take care if things is another person cannot (or wants/needs to be away). And, you're right, the fun stuff always takes a backseat to the stuff that HAS to be done that day. Oh...and HI!!! |
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| Delia | Jan 21 2009, 05:22 PM Post #9 |
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Hi OTF! Yes, it really does work out well. Mine is 21 at this point, so not riding him as much really doesn't matter anymore since I no longer show him. I just still really enjoy riding him, and since he's an OTTB he still likes to have a part-time job. And this way I can give him a great retirement inexpensively, but still keep him close by, which isn't easy to do in my area.But you raise a really good point for Flashie. That relationship only works if everyone gets along well, does their fare share, and has the same general level of knowledge about horse care. It's your home, after all, so you don't want to take in a flaky boarder who is going to create drama or let you down on the horse care front. For me, it was pure luck that I found these people. I was just driving around and stopping off at all the farmettes in the area to see if anyone had an extra stall. The BOs and I discovered quickly that we are all lawyers, they knew my firm, and we know some of the same people professionally. So we were starting from a mutual presumption that none of us were wackos. What sealed the deal, however, is that when I first met the wife, she was holding duct tape and a diaper. So I said, "Gee, looks like someone has an abscess." She laughed, I helped her wrap the offending hoof to her satisfaction, and that was pretty much it. But my horse and I did have to pass two additional tests. First, I had to bring him over to their farm for a weekend so that they could confirm that he wasn't a dangerous lunatic and that there was a reasonable prospect that he would get along with the other 3 horses on the property. And the other boarder had to meet and approve me. They gave her veto power, which I also respected. |
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| OTF | Jan 21 2009, 05:43 PM Post #10 |
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When I first read this, Delia, I was thinking, wow, diapers and duct tape on a BABY??? I think the two additional tests were a great idea, so that everyone's given a trial run and not discovering problems after the fact. Nice..... |
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| FlashGordon | Jan 21 2009, 06:56 PM Post #11 |
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Guys these are all really awesome tips!! Thank you! Delia that is a pretty awesome set-up! I had a similar situation going on when I was in college. A friend let me stash my yearling filly at her farm, I paid for bedding/hay/grain and fed every night and did the 3 stalls. It was really a great deal for all involved. It freed her up in the evenings when her kids were home, and it gave me the chance to keep my filly cheaply. TBF I've been thinking of you actually in regards to this, since you are in NY too and have to deal with the same weather, etc. Plus you juggle your kids and horses as well. I'd guess riding would be out the window in winter months, aside from the occasional hack in the snow! At this point I have no competitive aspirations, just want to hack around on a nice horse once in awhile. Win will be a light-use horse anyway. I do really enjoy caring for horses and all the work involved... perhaps I am a bit of a control freak... So I think my goals/desires are in line with having our own place. Don't need a fancy set-up, but functional...Of course it all depends on finding the right property too!!! |
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| Fish Cheeks | Jan 21 2009, 08:24 PM Post #12 |
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I keep mine at home and love it! It IS a lot of work, though. Honestly I don't know how people do it and work full time and find time to ride and get all the farm chores done and have a family and and and... Let's see, things you need to know or look for in properties: - drainage - where does the water come from and where does it go? - pastures - are they in good shape or will they need a lot of work? - fencing - same question - is it appropriate? in good shape? where you want it to be? - amenities - if there's a barn there, does it have water, electricity, is it well sited, are the stalls in good shape, will it need work? - hay storage - is it in the barn or in a separate building? where will you store farm equipment (because you WILL end up with farm equipment!) is there a local hay supplier and/or feed store? - accessibility - can you turn a trailer around or do you have to do a 3 or 4 or 5 point turn to back it up and change direction? is it easy to get in and out of the barn or hay storage area? - place to ride - is there an arena? what kind of base? footing? drainage? fencing? will it need work? - topography - is it an easy place to manage? flat and easy to mow or hilly? - weather - how does the topography match the weather? where does the rain come from vs. where the barn is situated? how far is the house from the barn (late night tuck-ins slogging through the rain and mud gets old)? - horse care - are there good vets/farriers in the area? a clinic close by in case of emergency or surgery? - other - if you like to trail ride, are there trails nearby? if you want to show, are there trainers and shows? what is the local horsey scene like? That's most of what I can think of! It is really fun and satisfying to have your horses at home. You know what they are eating, when, how much they are drinking, peeing, pooping, etc. You can spot a lump or bump in a nanosecond. You'll know right away if something is off or nqr. Like just this summer, I noticed Paddy was stretching out as if to pee and not grazing when he was in the pasture. Took him up to the barn, checked his TPR, called the clinic, got him in in about an hour and he had to be admitted immediately for acute renal failure and stayed for a week. If I boarded him, the barn staff may not have noticed, or I may not have been there that day, or or or... It can be hard to find reliable house sitters, and when you do you need to hold onto them with all your might! My life and work schedule pretty much revolves around the horses and dogs and cats. Mr. Fishy works from home and is so good - he helps me with my farm chores! I work in the morning at work, come home and eat lunch and ride (Mr. Fishy feeds breakfast and lunch), then feed the dogs, do poo chores, feed the horses. Back inside for any work I brought home or freelance projects, eat dinner, watch TV or read, back out to feed/tuck-in the horses, then off to bed. Some days I don't feel like riding, I'm just too tired. Some days I have to do other chores - weed eating, brush clearing, house cleaning, etc. - and so I don't have time to ride. I try to keep a strict schedule and plan everything out, but... Even though it is a lot of work, Mr. Fishy and I want a MORE rural atmosphere, and bought an undeveloped property that is 2x what we've got now. We're just crazy, I guess. It sounds like a fun thing to be considering! Maybe when you're house shopping, you could look at some farmettes and see what kind of "feel" you get. |
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| MissBri | Jan 22 2009, 04:26 AM Post #13 |
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But, I don't care - it's 5:00 somewhere
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Everyone has brought up great points. Honestly FG at this point in your life I would opt for the house and acreage. When your health improves - then bring the ponies home. This way you can design a wonderful layout, decide how many stalls, etc. It is a lot of work especially if you work full time. I only have a one stall barn, but it's enough!. I would head out at 4:30am, do morning chores (water, feed, muck stall, muck the paddock, check the horse over. Catch the 6am train to the city and work all day. Back home around 5:30. Decision time! Ride? or not ride? because it's rare to actually ride after the chores on a week day. Boarders, you need to be very careful here. I know quite a few backyard people that have taken in boarders, all worked great for six months or so, then the boarders were no-shows and stopped paying. BUT I absolutely loved having Bri at home. Many mornings we'd head out before the sunrise when the forrest was still sleepy, returning to the full morning serenade of birds and other awakening critters. And of course our midnight rides. Or just feeling a little lonely or down, I would head out to snuffle my face in her wonderously fuzzy winter neck, or simply sit in her stall as she munched away on hay stopping often to nuzzle the top of my head. So there are many pros and cons. In my case the pros far outweigh the cons, but if I were not in good health the care and upkeep can be quite an issue. |
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| DairyQueen2049 | Jan 22 2009, 04:57 AM Post #14 |
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DRAGON BREATH. DRAGGIN' BUTT
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I've been a boarder - full board, a co-op boarder, a worker at a boarder barn (70+ horses), done rent-a-barn/pasture, and had mine at home. Home is best hands down. Cuz I control the feed and I know my horses are getting what I want them to when and where I want it. Downsides are as above: no days off, the dead of winter you WISH you had a paid helper, stacking hay, manure manure manure - and with small pastures less then 5 acres you WILL want to deal with it or you'll have flies and grossness - water in the winter (horses can't drink solid water, darn it), fencing, barns. My rule is KISS - Keep it Simple Stoopid. Fencing should go up and stay up. I have Cattle Panel - its portable so I can move it around, but it keeps OUT dogs and small animals and keeps in the horses. My gates are 16' long -you want to get vehicles in and out: farrier, vet, hay wagons. DO NOT put your buildings close to your fencing!!!! You'll need swing room!!! Barns with minimal up keep. LARGE mower decks for your pastures. Some sort of wheeled cart to tow behind your mower to make poo patrol easier. Shared waterers that are automated OR minimal upkeep. Think of ways to keep it simple. Wide doors for people doors to move that hay and saddles and stuff. Electricity. DO NOT put water spickets where horses can touch them. Ever. Boarders - I used to warn places I boarded that I came out at all hours and I rode A LOT. ANd I do. And it drove some crazy. But I told them ahead of time to say so and I'd move. I'm fussy - I admit it. I like to do my own chores. Chores are endless, BUT they will be there tomorrow. RIDE NOW is my mantra. Poo will wait till a rainy day - oh yes it will! And its a hoot in the rain!! (my horses are on turn out with run ins 24/7 and neither poo's in their stall.) You will never ever have enough acres. It just is. Smaller house = less house work. Smaller 'year' = less yard work. We dig a manure pit using the excavated soil (ours is sand) in stall floor areas or low areas. When the pit begins to fill we bury and open another. I'm very excited for you FG!!!!
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| Trialbyfire | Jan 22 2009, 07:33 AM Post #15 |
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So I thought about this a little. In our case we bought a farmette before we had horses, so we didn't have to think about when to bring them home, etc. We did have some truly horrific boarding experiences as the neighbor had previously boarded horses with the prior owner and we continued this for a bit but it was a nightmare. Basically they ruined our barn and property and gave back nothing of value. So....don't do that. Insurance....we've done a couple of things. When we had the neighbor boarding her horses in our barn we had Farm Family equine coverage on our property and had a boarding rider. That was very expensive and our agent was a total idiot....there was no option for 1-2 boarders, just 0-10 for the same price. So it wasn't really designed for a small farm. Our own horses would be covered by our homeowner's insurance, but anyone else's horses wouldn't - e.g. if they got out and were struck by a car and caused a fatal accident.....nightmares! So we kept the Farm Family until we got rid of the risky boarders. Now we have a $1M umbrella policy on our farm, on top of our homeowner's policy. It will cover our own issues, boarder injuries or damages, plus it is broader coverage, not specifically horse related. My dh is the insurance guy (he lobbies for a variety of property/casualty companies and trade associations) so I'm not the expert but if you have specific questions I can find out. What we did learn is that the average farm owner is probably grossly underinsured!! One thing we also are going to look into is the tax exempt requirements, which used to be $10,000 in business expenses per year and I believe it was recently (within the last 2 years) reduced to $3500; which basically means that if you have one boarder paying $300/month, you could qualify as a tax-exempt farm.....[not positive on this which is why we haven't done it]. Would have been great before buying our tractor, for example, although I think at the time it was $10K and we didn't meet that. But being able to buy your feed, farm equipment, etc. tax exempt might be worth putting up with the hassle of a boarder or two! Speaking of tractors, you will really want one. Not necessarily a big one or a new one...but we found it easier to buy a new Kubota than a used one.....I think we bought ours with 2% interest but a personal loan to buy a used tractor would be much more. Plus its under warranty, etc. We use ours all the time, even plowing our driveways with a backblade on the back. It was an expensive piece of equipment (around $17K, I believe), but well worth the investment as it will last forever. As far as chores....honestly....if your horses are turned out, you get into chores that can be managed much easier....yes I pick stalls but right now that takes about 10 minutes/day. My horses use their stalls as a run-in, and basically stand in there while waiting for me to come feed them on a normal day. So, one or two poops and a wet spot.....sometimes nothing. Of course sometimes in bad weather there is a lot to do...but overall, it's not a lot of mucking. Instead you get pastures to pick, but as DQ said....they are not immediate chores. If it's 95 degrees out I might not do it; if it's raining, forget it. But eventually I get to it; poo-pick, mow, etc. The key to making your jobs easier is layout, so that is something to consider when you're looking. The previous owners did not use their barn as a run-in; horses did not have access to our barnyard paddock surrounding the barn, but instead had to be led in and out. They had a decorative lawn around the barn, which was pretty, I'll grant you that. But the setup was much more labor intensive and honestly, we have more than enough lawn to mow!! So we changed the setup to allow horses constant access to the barn, which also allows us to have a heated water tank right next to the barn that is used 24/7. So I don't have buckets in stalls unless they are locked in (e.g. when the farrier is here)....I don't have ice to break or extra buckets to clean, etc. I don't have to lug water to the pasture tank or run 30 feet of hose. Every farm you look at is going to have setup pros and cons....we have some things I wish were different but overall it is pretty simple. I think that is the key to making it work, so try to keep that in mind as you look at farms.....what will your every day chores be? One other thing to consider...I think fixing up an old barn is cheaper than building a new one, unless the barn is structurally unsound. So buying vacant land and planning to build a barn could be very expensive, and I'm not sure what kinds of loans you would get for barn construction v. home construction. In our case we had to replace the barn roof, floor, new paint, fencing and driveway, and I don't want to add that up. But none of those things had to be done immediately; the only one that was really *necessary* v. a smaller repair was the roof as our hayshed was leaking and we were losing hay. The other things were mainly cosmetic, really. It looked horrible [ask MayaTy02....I believe her exact words were "can you knock it down and build a new one?"] but in reality it was 90% sound. Just butt ugly and really wrecked by other people. Whew....sorry for the book!
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BUT -- the irony is that I ride him a whole lot less than when I kept him at my trainer's. Horse care + farm maintenance sucks up a lot of time. We have a guy who mucks our stalls, but even so, between feeding the horses, ordering the grain and shavings, finding/ordering/storing good hay, maintaining the fields, maintaining the fencing, dealing with downed trees, holding the horses for the vet and farrier, etc., plus working at a full-time job, it's a lot. There are only so many hours in the day, and unfortunately riding takes a back seat to the basic stuff.
Yes, it really does work out well. Mine is 21 at this point, so not riding him as much really doesn't matter anymore since I no longer show him. I just still really enjoy riding him, and since he's an OTTB he still likes to have a part-time job. And this way I can give him a great retirement inexpensively, but still keep him close by, which isn't easy to do in my area.


7:51 AM Jul 11