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WIHS is up (well, not the workings)
Topic Started: Sep 18 2008, 09:14 AM (1,172 Views)
RHowell
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Delia
Sep 19 2008, 07:15 AM
Indeed -- Back in the dark ages when I was a junior, Harrisburg took the most and New York took the least, with Washington in the middle. At Washington they took around twenty-five small juniors and twenty-five large juniors (no age splits back then), and at New York they took around 20 juniors PERIOD. No split between smalls and larges. They did have a split between older and younger A/Os at both, but the numbers accepted were low.
But I guess that's my point. You knew what you had to work with year after year. You didn't get the numbers changed on you when the prize list came out.

And I hear the talk about making it more prestigous, but I don't think it became any more prestigious when it moved TO the Verizon center. I seem to remember far heavier hitters, particularly in the jumpers, when it wasn't at the Verizon center. Tortoise said in her first post that it was a result of losing space from street closings...."bumping up" the prestige factor is a by-product, not a goal. And if it were a goal unrelated to the space issue, I think it should have been articulated earlier in the year so that people could make a decision on how much to show if they wanted to go.

My greatest concern is not that "waaah I didn't get in" because I really thought I was a long shot anyway, but a concern that a lot of people are going to be adding more shows to their schedule now, and it's the horses who feel that the most.

Tortoise, your comments don't fall on deaf ears, and I don't in any way want to undermine the hard work that you and the WIHS team do, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't feel comfortable expressing my disappointment at the direction the show is taking. I'm entitled to have my beliefs, just as you and the rest of the WIHS staff and this bulletin board are entitled to have theirs. It doesn't mean I'm not listening.
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kmcneil
I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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ThePrayerList
Sep 19 2008, 10:43 AM
kmcneil
Sep 19 2008, 07:43 AM
They truly take the best in the country!
Well thank you, Velvet. Please make sure and give Pie a pat for us. :rolleyes:



:lol:
hahahahahhaha... i'm more of an international velvet person- arizona pie!

my favorite scene- when she is running across the field screaming "ITS THE FOAL! ITS THE FOAL!"

ok that was completely off topic.....
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kmcneil
I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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RHowell
Sep 19 2008, 11:04 AM
a concern that a lot of people are going to be adding more shows to their schedule now, and it's the horses who feel that the most.
why would people go to MORE shows if they only take points from the top fifteen shows you attend? If you go to a million little A shows with six per division and end up fourth, fourth, fourth, and fourth- or even if you end up being champion EVERY time out at a million little A shows and you are leading the country doesnt mean that you are going to get into indoors because you went to so many horse shows. Imagine if that person had 5,000 points in 43 horse shows but their top fifteen shows only added up to 800 points? Someone that goes to big shows and pins consistently high will get in- maybe they only went to fifteen shows all year- maybe they went to twenty... who knows.

I don't think that this is that much of a change from years past that it really needs to be debated. Other posters have already pointed out that the National in NY always had smaller numbers.
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ThePrayerList
I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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kmcneil
Sep 19 2008, 11:18 AM
ThePrayerList
Sep 19 2008, 10:43 AM
kmcneil
Sep 19 2008, 07:43 AM
They truly take the best in the country!
Well thank you, Velvet. Please make sure and give Pie a pat for us. :rolleyes:



:lol:
hahahahahhaha... i'm more of an international velvet person- arizona pie!

my favorite scene- when she is running across the field screaming "ITS THE FOAL! ITS THE FOAL!"

ok that was completely off topic.....
Good lord.....My Little Pony anyone? :rolleyes:



:lol: :lol:
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sarahpalinforpres
Weanling
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I just hope everyone votes for me!
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hjchik
I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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kmcneil
Sep 19 2008, 11:38 AM
RHowell
Sep 19 2008, 11:04 AM
a concern that a lot of people are going to be adding more shows to their schedule now, and it's the horses who feel that the most.
why would people go to MORE shows if they only take points from the top fifteen shows you attend? If you go to a million little A shows with six per division and end up fourth, fourth, fourth, and fourth- or even if you end up being champion EVERY time out at a million little A shows and you are leading the country doesnt mean that you are going to get into indoors because you went to so many horse shows. Imagine if that person had 5,000 points in 43 horse shows but their top fifteen shows only added up to 800 points? Someone that goes to big shows and pins consistently high will get in- maybe they only went to fifteen shows all year- maybe they went to twenty... who knows.

I don't think that this is that much of a change from years past that it really needs to be debated. Other posters have already pointed out that the National in NY always had smaller numbers.
kmcneil- RH's concern is a good one. By limiting the number of entries that WIHS accepted folks will be going to more and more shows. Even though they take your top 15 shows. Say for the younger AOs the cutoff was 2400+, that would average to 160 points per show. So if you were to go to A shows all year with a limited number of entries you would have to make sure that you were a tricolor each time to stay within that 160 point goal for each show. Or if you go to AAs, being consistenly in the ribbons even if they are primary is no longer good enough. So you are going to need to go to more and more shows so that you can get rid of your "bad" shows that aren't under that 160 (for instance) point minimum. For someone that averages say 17-20 shows a year that doesn't give you much wiggle room for a bad weekend.

It seems to me that for whatever reason this year all of the ducks weren't in a row with the DC/Fed government folks to block the streets and it resulted in less stalls being able to be set up which resulted in less entries being accepted for everything except for the WIHS Children and Adult Championships.

But to show consistently all year and feel like you are pretty safe to get in only to find out less folks are getting in this year 3 weeks before points close, that's pretty disappointing. Though with 335 folks on the wait list there is a whole group out there that feels that way. And WIHS made $50,250 to say thanks for submitting your entry try again next year.
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Ethan & Ella's Mom
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Katie,

You would be surprised how little only counting the top 15 shows stops people. They figure the odds of them getting a decent 15 shows is better if they have 20 shows for the year or even more. Pull up some of the qualifers on USEF. Blows my mind.

The association I work for has 72 shows this year. And that is only from December 2007 through September 2008. It's out of control. We only count the top 15. It doesn't stop those chasing points or those trying to qualify.
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RAM
Schooling
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And I will be there for the Adult finals. Silly little mare and entourage will be there in full force.

Do not, and I repeat do not officer her anything stronger than coke. ;)

Oops, RH that is coke-a-cola as in beverage.
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varider
Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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Go SLM and Chauncey!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
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2Dogs
We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
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When I get back in the A/O ring :luck: :point: :luck: I plan to find only the A and AA shows where I know few show up, collect my certain to be winning points, and I know I will be a shoe-in for indoors :teehee: :rolleyes:


bawahahhahahhahahhahahahahahahaha :rofl:


on a serious note, I hope all who made it have a great time and I am sorry for those not making the cut off..........
honestly, if I make it to 6 shows a year and have fun, I will be happy (and not overdrawn!!!!)

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TortoiseT
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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Points will be different for indoors every year. One year in the Adult Jumpers we had 16 entries. This year we had 52 try to enter. One medium pony has over 6,000 points. It all depends on who enters and the amount of points they have, as well, not just the amount of entries accepted.
Edited by TortoiseT, Sep 19 2008, 05:37 PM.
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J.Loh
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You can go to every tom dick and harry horse show in America if you want to try to get into indoors, but if you aren't consistently getting top prizes at AA show in classes with more than 6 entries, you're not going to get in if they only take the top 20. And I can see where that's hard for the AOs...as with so many damn horse show these days all over creation, people can be more spread out and thus numbers are lighter in that division.

Just my two cents. Have never shown at indoors. Doubt I ever will. Not a goal for me.

HJchik - you've had a great year. I am sorry you didn't get in for the AOs at WIHS...but you've still got to be happy with how Sal has gone this year :)

Editted to ad, "I should've read kmcneil's post first...as my first paragraph is basically a repeat of hers. And I don't like her at all - so by no means was I trying to be a copy cat. In fact, it makes me sad that we think alike, b/c she is not a morally or ethically acceptable person. " :teehee:
Edited by J.Loh, Sep 19 2008, 06:51 PM.
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RHowell
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Hey internet family, sorry I haven't been around a computer much (I LOFF my fridays off work) but I wanted to add perhaps a bit late that I didn't mean to cause a dust up. There are many people I like and adore involved with the horse show on all levels. Doesn't mean I agree with all y'all (that's the plural of y'all for those up north ;) ) but I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone or their hard work. At the end of the day, I think we all want the same thing--for WIHS to be a great show....some of us just differ on what that means and how it's achieved, but good and smart people can disagree. :hug:

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kmcneil
I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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Ethan & Ella's Mom
Sep 19 2008, 12:00 PM
Katie,

You would be surprised how little only counting the top 15 shows stops people. They figure the odds of them getting a decent 15 shows is better if they have 20 shows for the year or even more. Pull up some of the qualifers on USEF. Blows my mind.

The association I work for has 72 shows this year. And that is only from December 2007 through September 2008. It's out of control. We only count the top 15. It doesn't stop those chasing points or those trying to qualify.
I certainly don't have my head in the sand on this issue- and not that you are suggesting that I do- but if you think about those that qualify for the indoor shows and devon that get in and those that qualify, get in and are successful- there is certainly a difference.

For example- I did just go look at points from last year (2007)- a second in the country horse went to 26 shows with less than one hundred points more than the third placed horse that went to 16 shows. Guess which horse won at indoors? The one that was sitting third. They both got in and competed- the horse with 26 horse shows got ONE prize in one under saddle. The third placed horse (with 16 shows- that is including the one indoor show they attended meaning that they only went to 15 shows all year) was champion at an indoor show.

I know that there are people who will still pound the pavement to qualify but I don't see the difference between this year and those in the past. They are still taking the top fifteen shows- they are only taking less numbers- but by five- not 20. As TT said- it seems that more people entered this year than they have in the past (which if anything says good things about the horse show, not bad) that is not something that Washington, or any other show can predict and therefore isn't something that will be provided in a press release at the beginning of the season.

I just think that it is a weak argument to say that everyone will go to more horse shows at the detriment of their horses. If that is the case, I don't think that it is indoors to blame- I think that it is just bad horsemanship.

ps- JLoh is a huss.
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