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| When to you decide "enough"? Mare has decided...; Riding career done :( Update pg 3 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 5 2008, 05:36 PM (1,819 Views) | |
| TarynJ | Jan 5 2008, 05:36 PM Post #1 |
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Guiding your way to Candy Mountain, since 1873.
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I've been half-leasing a wonderful mare from my coach/BO for about a year, and pay half the board, half the shoes, something towards maintenance, and am in regular lessons. The mare is a bit older, and has recently been becoming a bit stiff; we always knew that at some point she'd need to be started on Legend or Adequan or something. Today the coach is watching her go, and says that I'll need to consider it when I have the cash. I thought this is what the maintenance I was covering would to be going to since we always knew it would happen eventually, and she hasn't needed anything else ![]() On the other hand, costs have been skyrocketing around here. The lease is incredibly generous (I have had her to myself except for the odd lesson or ride when someone else's horse is sidelined, taken her to whatever shows I want etc). The owner/coach/BO has been really good to me, and there is no way I can throw in back at her that she should be covering this, even if it was part of the original agreement. At the same time, I'm trying to put money aside for a downpayment on a condo, pay off old student loans, save for my own horse etc. The additional cost isn't huge (at least after the initial loading), but it's just one more thing. So where do you draw the line? Part of me is saying to just give up the lease, and put that money towards my own horse, but that would mean not riding for possibly years, and I'm finally getting somewhere. The mare and I work well together, and she's taught me an incredible amount. ![]() If I gave up this lease, I don't think I could go back to leasing again. I've had too many short term leases (ie riding horses that were for sale), and a couple of crazy owners, and just can't do it again. Where do you say enough is enough...?
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| jn4jenny | Jan 6 2008, 09:57 AM Post #2 |
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Is the meadow on fire?
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Honestly? It would depend on several factors. 1. How much would you have to pay to get the horse you want in the future? Or more accurately, exactly how much time are we looking at for you to save up the purchase price + startup costs? 2. How long will it take you to outgrow this mare? In other words, how much more does she have to teach you? 3. Will continuing to lease this mare get you to a point in your riding where you would feel comfortable and capable of bringing along a younger, cheaper prospect with the assistance of your trainer? 4. I am a financial conservative for sure, but you can't let the financial factors completely overwhelm the "how the horse fits into my life plan" arguments. Ask yourself not only if you can "afford it", but also whether you are at a point in your life when you are more capable physically or schedule-wise to own a horse than you will be in the future? Ask yourself how a horse fits into your twenty-year future plans. Is now the time, or would it be better in terms of your plan to wait a few more years? To dramatically oversimplify, would you rather be one of the ramen-eating twentysomethings who scrimp and save to afford the horse but whose own bodies are still sharp and adaptable, or would you rather be a 40 or 50 year old re-rider who can afford all the best for the horse but sometimes struggles with "my body can't do that anymore"? I'm not saying one is better than the other, and I've known folks who were happy with both decisions. But it's something to think about. |
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| TarynJ | Jan 6 2008, 02:18 PM Post #3 |
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Guiding your way to Candy Mountain, since 1873.
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My challenge is that it's not lease or buy... it's lease or not ride, or at least not ride regularly or go back to school horse lessons. The upside is I could afford to buy sooner, but the downside is that I'd probably go backwards in any progress I've made. I'm trying to be around the $10k mark when I buy - but it's not going to happen for at least a year or two - it's both a time and money issue. It's enough to get a decent-youngish prospect for lower level dressage / eventing, and if I keep leasing at that point I'll be ready to take on something that's got the basics. I'm in my early thirties, so at that point where I don't want to live on ramen, but also can't afford all the best. It's a balancing act... to be quite honest, there are a few of us around the same age where I ride, and we all lease. Everyone who owns is a kid, a professional (i.e. pro rider or coach), or over 45. The mare is schooled to PSG, so I suspect she'll be ready for retirement before I ever outgrow her. I'm schooling second level. She took me through my first show season ever last year (I rode schoolies during the summer as a kid, and never had a chance to do more), including a lot of blue and red ribbons, and a couple of high-point/reserves at local shows. Ending the lease over this would be a bit heartbreaking - I'd hoped to keep riding her until she needed an easier job or retirement. If this were my own horse, it would be a non-issue. It would get whatever it needed, and I'd just skip showing. But it's not my horse, and it's not an inexpensive lease.
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| Lion1024 | Jan 6 2008, 03:48 PM Post #4 |
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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How comfortable would you feel saying exactly what you wrote here to your trainer? |
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| TarynJ | Jan 6 2008, 05:17 PM Post #5 |
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Guiding your way to Candy Mountain, since 1873.
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Usually fine, but unfortuantly there's a lot of other, bigger crap going on at the barn right now. I'm hoping the dust settles soon, but for the moment, she really doesn't need the additional stress. The mare is ok for the moment, but I'm trying to figure out a plan well before I have to make the final choice... |
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| BABYGREENTB | Jan 6 2008, 07:53 PM Post #6 |
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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What if you split the cost with your trainer/the owner? Sounds like they have done a lot for you, you love this mare, and it is the right thing to do by the horse... |
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| SnackPack | Jan 7 2008, 09:26 AM Post #7 |
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You're BANNED!
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It sounds to me like you have a great deal going (basically a full lease for half the price) and are about to throw it away over some additional maintenance costs that you SHOULD be splitting with the horse owner. Adequan and/or Legend are typical maintenance drugs for older performance horses. Be happy the horse didn't need them before. Is the horse already on other supplements or some such to account for the other maintenance costs you mentioned? If you can't account for them, I would politely sit the trainer/owner down, ask about them. You will never know what you don't ask. I was in a similar situation a few years back. I was half-leasing a horse with maintenance issues and trying to save for my own. I paid the half lease, put the other half of what it would cost to own a horse into savings. That way I was getting a real feel for how much owning my own would cost. Or so I thought in my naive little world. When I bought, I got what I could afford and let's just say it took about 2 years to get that horse to the same level of the leased horse. It also costs me about 3x times as much to own a horse with no maintenance issues at all and a very minimum of vet bills (I'm looking for some wood to knock on) compared to the lease. Looking back, if the lease horse had been able to do what I wanted (he couldn't), I would've been very happy to continue leasing for an eternity. As it was, I leased him for about 2 months after I bought and was going to continue it through the end of the show season, but things sort of fell apart with the owner. If I had stopped the lease, I NEVER would've been up to the task of riding my new greenie. I guess what I'm saying is, in the long run, the extra cost of Adequan or Legend is nothing in comparison to the cost of owning and may be worth it to keep you tuned up for when you purchase your own...especially if you are thinking of going green. |
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| jn4jenny | Jan 7 2008, 10:07 AM Post #8 |
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Is the meadow on fire?
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If it were anything other than a PSG schoolmaster, I'd say to walk away. But I know people who would cut off a foot to ride a PSG schoolmaster. The value of this education can't be measured in mere dollars. If all it's going to take is $37 extra per month in Adequan, I'd consider continuing the lease. If it was Adequan plus Legend on top of that--well, then I might walk away. Legend is $60+ a pop and you'd need it for every show. If you were in a position to buy, I'd say to go ahead and buy now since you're probably paying out almost as much to lease this horse as it would cost to own one of your own. But since you admitted that you do not have time to own and the lease terms are incredibly generous, the PSG schoolmaster is probably the better option. It sucks, and I've walked in your shoes--right down to the "creaky horse who has a lot to teach me" part of it--so I feel your pain. But I think it's the right thing to do. Incidentally, I'm shocked at your estimate of $10K for a lower-level eventing and dressage prospect. Here in Michigan $6500-$7500 will buy you a Novice-level packer between ages 7 and 10 who has schooled Training Level questions and is already showing First Level Dressage. No I'm not joking, I know of two for sale at this very moment who meet those parameters. Granted they're both Thoroughbreds and you won't find that kind of price on an Irish Sport Horse, but still...are you sure you need 10 grand to find something that's w/t/c with at least 2'6" fences!? |
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| TarynJ | Jan 7 2008, 10:56 AM Post #9 |
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Guiding your way to Candy Mountain, since 1873.
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Yeah... I think the part that grates is that I thought I already WAS paying for the maintenance... and it would be more than enough to put her on Adequan. She just hadn't needed it until now. Other than that, all I can say is I'm coming to Michigan when I start horse shopping!! Around here, $10k will get you a decently (but not spectacularly) bred 4yo, started, but that's about it. Anything of that age that might make it to 3rd/4th is $20k+. The jumping is lower priority to me only because I'm a big weenie. |
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| KaliTude | Jan 7 2008, 01:06 PM Post #10 |
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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To the OP, I guess I am the dissenting voice here, I think the owner should be paying the maintenance costs. Yes you are getting to ride a nice horse, but I think the owner is also getting a good deal with you. I'd give anything to find someone like you to half lease my horse (granted she is green, but fancy and fun). Right now I would be happy to find someone competant to ride her half time for free... |
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| KaliTude | Jan 7 2008, 01:12 PM Post #11 |
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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I guess I didn't respond to the original question...only you can make the decision. I didn't ride for many years, and tried leasing for a while. I never did well with it personally, because of many things. If paying for a lease is going to hinder your ability to reach your final goal of owning your own horse eventually, then you have a decision to make. I made the decision to not ride until I could own my own horse. I struggled with a couple horses that were bad decisions, so I would also recommend holding out for EXACTLY what you want. If you are competent I would think you could find something to ride cheaper or for free if you want to just ride. If you are really happy with the lease then I think you need to just communicate your thoughts honestly with the owner. |
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| SnackPack | Jan 7 2008, 01:21 PM Post #12 |
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You're BANNED!
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First, I'm coming to wherever you live to buy my next horse, too. :lol: Second, half of board, half of shoes and a maintenance stipend and that somehow equals close to what it costs to own your own? Again, I want to live where you live. I half-leased for $150 month which was half of pasture board and half of shoes. That doesn't even come CLOSE to the $405 board $85 shoes (lucky me...he only needs fronts but is on a short rotation compared to others) $50 in feed (that's the monthly amount without factoring in the supplements that last more than a month...Platinum Performance, BOSS, Biotin) $100-$150 in training rides because even after 4 years he's the type to take advantage and needs regular trainer smackdowns to keep him in line. Wish he didn't, but it doesn't work well without them). $50 in Ulcerguard (we're on a low maintenance program) $50 generic Adequan (he is just starting on this at 9 1/2 as a preventative) I pay now to own. The costs can't even be compared...and that's not counting things like blankets, tack (horse goes through bell boots like they're made of paper), supplemental shavings, wormers, shots, chiropractic, etc. Kali...you may not think I'm competent, but I'll come up and take your girl for a spin. I may be horseless for awhile.
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| TarynJ | Jan 7 2008, 01:29 PM Post #13 |
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Guiding your way to Candy Mountain, since 1873.
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SnackPack... heck, I'd take living where you are! Average costs out here: Board: $600 (full care with indoor, but not a full service barn) Shoes: $150-$200 for good shoeing all around. You can do it for less, but you get what you pay for. Weekly lessons: $150-$200 minimum/month Plus, we're in Canada so the drugs are all a lot more expensive than in the states. Legend is about $500 for the initial series. And we don't have the benefit of a cheap Canadian dollar any more. If I lived somewhere cheaper I'd be out looking for a horse, but costs here are wild, and the BOs still make nothing on board. |
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| KaliTude | Jan 7 2008, 01:44 PM Post #14 |
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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What on earth happened??? I wish you lived up here! I move GG from full training to a "boarding barn" this month to cut expenses (want to talk expensive, I cut my monthly expense from $1150 a month to about $800 for just board, blanketing, supplement feeding and trailer parking..). For me it's not so much the $$, I just can't afford to pay someone to ride/lunge/to my horse, and I don't have to time to go everyday (20 miles each way). I am just praying for some talented kid or ammy to appear that wants to ride her a couple days a week and take some lessons. Until then we are taking a bit of a break from it all. |
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| SnackPack | Jan 7 2008, 01:59 PM Post #15 |
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You're BANNED!
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Kali, Nothing has happened. I've just decided that Show needs to move on. It's the right time, age-wise. He's at a good place, training-wise. He's at a great place, soundness-wise. If he's not going to be my forever horse (which I don't think he is), then now is the time. Now to just invent that memory wipe so I can erase all the terrible things I've said about him. :lol: People don't realize that I just uber-realistic about who and what he is....it tends to come across as if he's a bad, bad horse. He's not. He's just a challenge (one that I've been meeting lately and has really stepped up my riding). Ibex, That's close to what it is here, actually. My horse is in a pipe corral and there is NO full service. They get hay twice a day (sometimes of dubious quality and limited amounts...1 flake of alfalfa is not enough for a 1200 WB) and stall gets cleaned once a day. That is it. I didn't include My lessons costs as those are the same leasing or owning. I ride with a VERY inexpensive trainer, so it helps A LOT. If horse needed shoes all around, it would be about $150 for steels. I cut costs where I can, splurge when I can (chiropractic, etc), but I do keep him for fairly cheap...and I pay around $800/month. |
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