Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Outside Course!

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features!

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Tell me about EPSM
Topic Started: Jan 2 2008, 09:13 PM (633 Views)
snaffle
Member Avatar
Is the meadow on fire?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Miller's been 'off' the last few days. The vet looked at him today (while I was at work...grrr!). Miss Trainer called and said the vet thought it might possibly be EPSM. Never heard of it before, so I looked it up and, sure enough, lots of the symptoms match Miller's. He's fine at the walk and trot, but it feels like his hind end is completely uncoordinated when he canters. He gets really upset, so he's clearly uncomfortable.

Anyway, he had a chiropractic adjustment today and is going to start on selenium and vitamin E supplements. Doc said we should know in a couple of weeks if that works.

So, anyone had any experience with EPSM?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Trialbyfire
Member Avatar
You're BANNED!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I did a lot of research on EPSM while trying to figure out my draft x pony's lameness issues....I still think she might have it but she has other, more serious lameness issues beyond that so it's hard to know.

From what I read, diet & exercise are key components to controlling EPSM symptoms...I still feed all my horses a low sugar, low starch diet, although I have cut most of the fat because the pony's lameness precludes exercise so we have more issues with too many calories at the moment.

What does your horse eat?
What is his turnout and work routine like?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ann
We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
[ *  *  *  * ]
I have had experience with EPSM. My horse had many subtle signs, but the biggest was just as you described -- can walk and trot ok, but feels like he can't work his hind end correctly when cantering. He became nasty in his stall (charging the door when other horses walked by), started refusing fences, and became very reluctant to go forward. This horse loved to jump, and when he started stopping and crashing through fences that weren't very big I knew there was a problem. Vitamin E and selenium supplementation is important, but so is a diet change. I can't go into all the specifics of the diet right not (I'm at work), but it involves reducing starch and sugars and adding oil. Go to the Rural Heritage website and click on Vet Clinic. You can read all about it there. Good luck to you!

Rural Heritage
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DairyQueen2049
Member Avatar
DRAGON BREATH. DRAGGIN' BUTT
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Awww snaffle!! :,( :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

I have nothing to add but jingles and :hug: :hug: and hope that whatever it is is easily cured.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
snaffle
Member Avatar
Is the meadow on fire?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Thanks, everyone. I found the rural heritage website yesterday while doing some research and it was pretty helpful.

This is embarassing to say, but I hardly have any idea what my horse eats! (If I posted that on TOB, I'd put my flame suit on.) He gets lots of hay (no idea what kind), some grain (again, no idea what kind) and now gets beet pulp. At first I thought maybe it was the beet pulp, but my quick research indicates that beet pulp is low in carbs, so that doesn't appear to be the culprit.

Although now that I think about it, the head groom had me buy some pancake syrup for the beet pulp because Mills wasn't eating it! Holy crap! Between the pancake syrup and all those Little Debbie Oatmeal Creme Pies for Christmas, perhaps I've brought this on myself!!!!! :unsure:

I'll talk with the barn manager this weekend to better understand his feeding program and how we might want to change it.

With EPSM, do you have to be careful about feeding sweet treats like you do with a GI or diabetic horse?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Trialbyfire
Member Avatar
You're BANNED!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Good luck working on the diet issues...it is confusing but the Rural Heritage site is really good....I like that they give sample diets for different types of horses....much more helpful than saying "x % body weight of this, x% of that..."

As far as triggering EPSM symptoms, yes, I think you can. It's possible that maple syrup in his feed plus sugary treats might trigger some symptoms...but I think generally the bigger concern is the sugar/starch in their hay and grain. A few Little Debbies probably don't contribute THAT much to his overall diet. But, not a bad idea to lay off them for a bit while you're looking at his diet!

I think a big factor for a lot of horses is the grain but luckily that is the easiest thing to change. My horses all eat TC Lite which isn't even the lowest NSC available, but you can feed very little and it's quite safe for EPSM or IR/Cushings -- two of mine get only 1 lb/day and the other one gets 2lbs/day.

Plain beet pulp should not contribute to EPSM symptoms....even the kind with molasses isn't really that much extra sugar....if he doesn't like it, though, there are other things you can try adding....some people have good luck with a dash of cinnamon. Mine quite like beet pulp with a little canola oil....which is also good for EPSM diet, so that's another idea.

Let us know what you find out!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
snaffle
Member Avatar
Is the meadow on fire?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I'm moving my pity party over here from The Show Ring.

So, Miller had his hocks xrayed on Tuesday and the vet says there are only minor changes. So, hooray! Good news! Hocks are ok! Yippee! :clap:

He's going to do the EPSM/PSSM muscle biopsy in the next day or two. Anyone had this done? Any idea how long it takes to get results?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zbar
Member Avatar
It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Oh wow Snaffle thats great news! As far as the biopsy, not sure how long it takes I am sure at least 2-3 weeks depending on the lab it goes to. I am so anxious to find out if it is EPSM. Have you at least started to change his diet? It certainly wont hurt him to do it anyway. I have noticed a change in my mare already and it has only been about 1.5 weeks. The farrier even noticed when he was out today that she wasnt so painful and was able to stand without leaning on him. It is totally amazing what a diet can do for a horse! I finally came to a diet plan so check out my post on the feed room area! Best of luck to you, and eagerly awaiting test results!!

ETA: I just read your other post in the show ring, go buy some corn oil and have them put a cup in each feeding no need to switch feeds right away but start that oil and get that fat going in him ( well you may want to wait for the biopsy).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
snaffle
Member Avatar
Is the meadow on fire?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Thanks, zbar. I have 5 gallons of corn oil in my car which I'll drop off at the barn tomorrow. I'll talk to our BM about getting him started on it.

I'm really glad to hear your mare has improved already! That's great news! :clap:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
snaffle
Member Avatar
Is the meadow on fire?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Miller had his muscle biopsy today. I was feeling a bit brave, so I walked from the front of the horse to the back. Blech!!!! It was disgusting. Anyway, his biopsy will be on its way to Cornell on Monday. I'm feeling pretty good about it since that's my alma mater. :lol:

The vet said he's working with several horses right now who are presenting similar symptoms, but I'm the only one who's doing the biopsy. Apparently they can diagnose the condition with the improvement in diet, but I didn't want to wait that long in case there was something else wrong.

He's starting his new diet next week. The BM is working with our vet to design his diet.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zbar
Member Avatar
It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Great Snaffle! Please let me know what the come up with regarding his diet.

Did the vet say how long for results?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
snaffle
Member Avatar
Is the meadow on fire?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
It's about a week for the results to come back. (furious nail biting)

Then about 6-8 weeks till he recovers fully with the diet. (If this is what he's got.)

Upon the vet's instructions, I rode him today. With the help of some ace to keep us both safe, I walked him for about 25 minutes and trotted all of 30 seconds. He felt pretty good and seemed happy to be out.

Poor little boo boo butt!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Fish Cheeks
Member Avatar
You're BANNED!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Miles was dx with mild PSSM (same thing, really, just Dr. Valberg who is one of the researchers - aside from Dr. Valentine - calls it PSSM) a couple years ago via muscle biopsy. While symptoms may subside with a change in diet, I think the most definitive dx comes from a musle biopsy.

None of my horses get any grain. Only grass hay and a mix of alfalfa pellets and rice bran for mixing in supplements. I also feed him Quiessence, which makes a huge difference in his ability to work comfortably. Personally, I'm not quite sold on corn oil - being such a highly processed substance, I can't really think that quantities of it are good for them (even though Dr. Valentine's research says it is ok and that's what she recommends), which is why I go for the rice bran. Turnout 24/7 (weather permitting) is important for him, as is regular exercise. I will admit, though, that I've given up on him as a "sport horse" and he is my #1 trail pony. We do a lot of walking and trotting, and some cantering out on the trails. Mostly he's good, but every now and then he'll have a buck/kick-out episode at the canter so he's not 100% cured.

Good luck to you!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DairyQueen2049
Member Avatar
DRAGON BREATH. DRAGGIN' BUTT
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Oo snaffle - let us know what you learn!! :luck: :luck: :luck:

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
snaffle
Member Avatar
Is the meadow on fire?
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Thanks, DQ!

Fishy, thanks for the info. My big fear is whether he'll ever be 'the same'. I've spent a lot of time and energy trying to figure out what to do with this horse. My trainers and I just came up with a plan...show the pants off him for six months to see if he can mentally adjust to it. If yes, great, he's my show hunter. If not, well....then we'll worry about that later. But now that plan is delayed.

I stood there looking at him during the biopsy. He was sedated and his head kept going lower and lower till I was holding it in my hands about waist high. I was rubbing his forehead and kissing his ears and I thought 'no matter what happens, I am never selling this horse'. sniff. I just love him so much.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The Barn Aisle · Next Topic »
Add Reply