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| Moving up to a four wheeler... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 7 2007, 10:16 AM (1,587 Views) | |
| drivingincolor | Dec 7 2007, 10:16 AM Post #1 |
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Weanling
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I have been driving for twenty years, but always in a two wheel cart for the most part. I did drive an antique four wheel buggy once, but was not thrilled - being antique it was not cut under so I was always afraid it would tip over at the slightest tight turn! I know we have some CDE drivers on here, and pleasure drivers with four wheelers - I am thinking of moving up to a four wheel carriage - anyone have any advice? I have a very steady driving horse, but as we all know, spooks do happen. In the two wheel it isn't a big deal, but will a sideways spook give me a heart attack in a four wheeler? Are they easier to tip than a two wheeler? Are they easier to drive, harder? Anything else I should know before I think about going shopping?? Thanks everyone! |
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| CDE Driver | Dec 7 2007, 11:30 AM Post #2 |
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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I'll just give you my two cents since I drive 4 wheelers. Spooks do happen. I have been a little sideways from time to time. The biggest concern, IMHO, is if they jackknife you and then back up. That's the biggest flipping danger there. In all other situations I would consider a 4 wheel vehicle to be more stable than a two wheeler. The majority of the turn overs I've seen at CDE's have been in two wheelers. I think you can get away with going training level in a two wheeler. But when you start adding more speed and power you need the added weight and stability of four wheels. I drive a Glinkowski marathon vehicle in the marathon and for every day training. I can make really tight turns at speed and if my navigator is doing their job I have no fear of turning over. I have a Pacific Ultra Lite for dressage and cones. I have had to add weight to both of those vehicles for my Hanoverian. But he's a big strong guy and was actually a little bothered by the carriage floating around behind him. I will add that I believe most marathon vehicles are made with the intention on having someone on the back step to achieve balance and weight. Hope this helps a bit. |
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| Ashemont | Dec 7 2007, 12:16 PM Post #3 |
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Weanling
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We started out with 2-wheeled carts for both my husband's horse and my pony. I definitely think that's the way to START however once we tried a 4-wheeled vehicle I didn't want to use the carts anymore. My pony actually prefers the 4-wheeler and will get fussy when I put her to the road cart. Since hubby and I are now both retired and we plan to compete more (and since I've done so well with my pony) I am getting a new presentation/cones carriage - and my road cart is for sale |
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| drivingincolor | Dec 7 2007, 12:50 PM Post #4 |
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Weanling
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Thanks everyone for your input - I don't think I would ever have the backing up problem for a spook, just the sideways motion, which is always forward at the same time, if that makes any sense. In the two wheel everything follows, but in a four wheeler the shafts "float" and go with the horse - I wonder if that feeling that they are pushing the whole cart over in a two wheel may keep a little spook in a two wheel from becoming a big one in a 4. I would just be using this for pleasure driving, cones - not sure I have something that is bold enough to do CDE! Thanks again, and anyone else who has any opinions, I welcome them! |
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| CanadianStarz | Dec 7 2007, 05:22 PM Post #5 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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Here are some contacts for more info.on the Pacific Carriages. For Canada: Pacific Carriage Company Bill Schuil 26272 98 Ave Maple Ridge British Columbia V2X 1K3 Canada T: 604 462-7370 F:604 462 7368 E-mail: info@pacificcarriage.com Web: www.pacificcarriages.com/contact.shtml In the US DEALER CONTACT BUSINESS ARANAWAY FARM Carl Schwenke 541-476-9297 541-476-9297 5570 Fish Hatchery Rd Grants Pass, OR 97527 ASPICE MORGANS Al & PatSeminatore 506-626-7351 6250 North Main St. Rosewll, NM BARR TRAK FARM Bill Bodard Carole Wallace 573-682-1477 573-682-1163 P.O. Box 25 10350 E Swiney Lane Centralia, MO 65240 COLONIAL CARRIAGE WORKS Todd Frey 920-623-2513 920-623-1998 N5109 Hwy 151 Columbus, WI 53925 EQUIVALE INC. Dennis Thornton 386.985.2103 386.985.2103 1365 Spring Garden Ranch Rd. De Leon Springs, FL 32130 GAR RENE'S HORSE EQUIPMENT Irene & Garland Dutton 602-276-5659 602-276-0522 8011 South 7th Ave Phoenix. AZ 85041 GAYLA DRIVING CENTER LLC. Dana & Debbie Banfield 502-863-5113 502-867-0081 *51 3329 E. Cynthiana Road Georgetwon, KY 50324 MOMENT IN TIME HORSE ACCESSORIES Julie Mitchell Doris Leacy 520-405-9859 520-400-7633 13551 N Sandra Road Marana, AZ 85653 NEW ENGLAND COACH & CARRIAGE Barbara & Dwight Lowes 978-346-4841 978-346-4841 101 East Main St. Merrimac MA 01860 SUN COUNTRY MINI'S Debra Bohnsack 830-688-6703 830-796-3088 3485 FM 1077 Bandera, Tx 78003 Newbert Equine Enterprises Judy Newbert 403-508-3571 830-796-3088 Box 528 Crossfield, AB T0M 0S0 Email THE CARRIAGE BARN Arnold Riffel 805-983-7434 805-482-4240 4425 E. Central Ave Camarillo, CA 93010 TWO CREEKS RANCH Dan Meggison 1-204-658-3486 1-204-658-3486 Box 92 Goodlands, MB R0M 0R0 TRACEY MORGAN Tracey Morgan 301 972 8768 301 648 5158 301 349 2133 20501 West Hunter Rd. Beallsville, MD 20839 |
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| CDE Driver | Dec 7 2007, 08:27 PM Post #6 |
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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I got my Pacific directly from Bill, he is really great to work with. |
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| CanadianStarz | Dec 8 2007, 12:28 PM Post #7 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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I occasionally scoot on down to my friends in Brantford area and "play with one"! They are GREAT Vehicles! Thinking
It might be a "bye-bye Spider....and hello Pacific", early on next season.
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| goodhors | Dec 10 2007, 09:48 PM Post #8 |
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We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
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Not sure if you want the looks of a Pleasure vehicle or the modern technology of a modern metal carriage, even if it isn't a Marathon vehicle. A spook in 4-wheels will take the shafts with the horse. You will have the front-end pivot under vehicle a little. GET HORSE GOING FORWARD!!! Forward will pull vehicle straight again. A spook should not make you tip if it is only a step sideways. This is why 4-wheelers are for more experienced, solid animals. They should be more reliable, not very spooky at this point in training. Getting a vehicle with a full 5th-wheel under the front, will elimiinate any chance of binding on turns. But if you turn VERY sharply, beyond 90 degrees, you have only 3 points of support with front wheel under 5th-wheel. Have you ever dragged one of the little Red Flyer Wagons around that kids have? If you turn too hard, sharply 90 or more degrees, load on top tips outside. The whole load flips the wagon over then. Carriage can work the same way with horse turning 5th-wheel sharply under front-end at speed. We like 4-wheels, you have more wheels on the ground for better ride. No motion of bouncy horse coming down the shafts. No weight on horse back. With full 5th-wheel you can usually turn shorter than a cart. Pleasure Driving is based partially on looks. Appearance may be part of the class points, in Judging totals. Antique or older styles, are preferred for their pretty lines, good style. Many body designs to choose from, all attractive. Prices will vary according to Maker, condition, restoration needed or ready-to-go. Usually a softer ride. Performance is on speed and accuracy in the variety of classes. No opinion about it. Marathon vehicles are built for toughness, ability to turn quickly, not much is pretty about them. Shafts are often shorter now, to aid in bending during turns and Dressage. Traditional vehicles have long shafts, reaching the point of shoulder. Many folks dislike the looks of newly made vehicles, and some are not attractive. Look at more than one if you shop, drive it if possible. Ride, turns, are real different from old vehicles. Your horse may need a specific size vehicle. Even with no shaft weight, vehicle needs to be proportionate to the animal. You need to see where you are going. Many modern vehicles I see are too small for the horse. Drivers want to lighten the weight on horse so they pick the lightest one. Too light a vehicle can be dangerous, not up to strength of horse pulling it. Don't count on brakes to hold horse, or stop him when there is a problem. Brakes are merely for slowing it down a little on turns. If you hit brakes hard, you CAN jack-knife the vehicle. Many of the vehicles won't brake well without a rear passenger/groom to hold them down. You can put fixed weights (150-200 pounds) on for use at home, if you have no regular extra folks to ride with you. You need the weight for brakes to do any good at all. I guess I would make a list of what I expect 4-wheel vehicle to do for me. Then a list of the features vehicle would need to perform those tasks. There are plus and minus features on Traditional and Modern vehicles. You have to choose what will work for you. |
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| Ashemont | Dec 11 2007, 07:05 AM Post #9 |
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Weanling
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Good post... and good point about the brakes. My husband finds them useful going downhill but as far as holding the horse? Forget it! He's a big strong boy (the horse) and can easily pull the carriage with the brakes on full
Good thing he listens to voice so well
My brakes can hold my pony from going forward but not a good idea to use them that way. If she's really upset she will go UP instead of forward. Again, voice works best in this situation. We only have back brakes on our vehicles as we were warned that front brakes can REALLY get you into trouble. We'll leave those to the professionals. |
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| horsegent | Dec 14 2007, 05:02 PM Post #10 |
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Weanling
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With a purpose built CDE vehicle, basically you compromise on safety and stability to achieve tight turns and speed, so if you're not competing, that might not be the best sort of vehicle for you. Other things to consider: With a 4 wheeler, if your horse whips round suddenly, you can find yourself sitting at right angles to him. With a 4 wheeler its imperative to have someone with you on the backstep to balance the vehicle and weigh it down. Particularly on uneven terrain. Features to think about are things like the back-step: It needs to be comfortable to stand on and have good hand rails and safety guards to prevent the back-stepper putting a toe through the side of the step and into the wheel. Things like aluminium wheels make it lighter weight - but more expensive. Do you want: delayed steering, A sloped seat that is capable of moving to central position. What sort of shockabsorbers and springs? I'd recommend parabolic springs and rubber block suspension to help with traction on slippy or muddy surfaces. Then you can get a vehicle that is capable of adapting to either single or a pair, so it comes with shafts or a pole. You'll also need to learn to drive using the brake. |
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| Ashemont | Dec 15 2007, 11:14 AM Post #11 |
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Weanling
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"With a 4 wheeler its imperative to have someone with you on the backstep to balance the vehicle and weigh it down" I have not found this to be true with my WCC Batmobile. It is designed to put the weight between the back wheels and it's very stable which is good because I'm almost always alone. I've never had a wheel leave the ground and I drive on some pretty rough terrain with a sassy pony who is really quick. I think it depends on the vehicle. As with other things in life this is one instance where you usually get what you pay for. The WCC cost a bit more than other carriages I could've bought, but it's been well worth the money for the safety and stability. |
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| CDE Driver | Dec 15 2007, 01:20 PM Post #12 |
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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My marathon carriage is a Glinkowski Marathon 100. It is fine for just tootling around, but I don't do any fancy footwork without any one on the back. I have had to add weight to it. My horse wasn't really working, just kind of floating around up there thinking his job was to look pretty and goof off! After I added the weight his work got so much better, I think it gave him something to think about and he actually had to apply himself for a change! I like to train heavier than I compete. At home I have the fellow that works for me (about 200 #) and the dog (70ish #). My navigator at events is 140, and, much to his consternation, the dog can't go. So that puts us a hundred plus pounds lighter. |
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| CanadianStarz | Dec 15 2007, 02:07 PM Post #13 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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Love the Sportscar look of the Batmobile.....However I kept getting the image of me slipping off from the seating,
and ending up with my a$$ going over the cheese grater flooring if anything unforseen occured.
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| CDE Driver | Dec 15 2007, 03:09 PM Post #14 |
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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Thanks CS, quite the visual! :lol: |
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| Ashemont | Dec 16 2007, 07:40 AM Post #15 |
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Weanling
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There are different models of Batmobiles. Mine is a 130 and fairly new. No 'cheese grater' anywhere except where the 'gator stands
As far as slipping off the seat - not a problem at all with it adjusted correctly. When I straighten my legs I'm locked in very securely. I'd really love to trade up to the new 140 with all of it's bells and whistles however my pony is only 506 lbs and I'm about 150. My carriage is 296 while the 140 is another 20+ lbs heavier. She just doesn't need the added weight. |
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I occasionally scoot on down to my friends in Brantford area and "play with one"!
They are GREAT Vehicles! Thinking
It might be a "bye-bye Spider....and hello Pacific", early on next season.
Good thing he listens to voice so well
and ending up with my a$$ going over the cheese grater flooring if anything unforseen occured.

12:29 PM Jul 11