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| Why do breeders bash other breeders? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 11 2007, 08:56 AM (1,366 Views) | |
| clearound | Nov 11 2007, 08:56 AM Post #1 |
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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Yesterday, I received a telephone call from someone who spoke to a breeder who is also a rookie SO. The person told me that this alleged breeder/SO spent the vast majority of the telephone conversation bashing another breeder's stallion. The person who called me happens to have a baby who she loves by this very stallion. The other interesting thing is that this alleged breeder breed five of their mares last year to this stallion and they have been on this board and others touting the stallion's qualities and babies. Maybe the reason for the bashing is now this breeder has their own stallion or perhaps the other reason is that this very breeder has not paid the SO for the breedings. However, in either case, does this seem unprofessional to anyone other than I. Perhaps I forget that breeding is no different than any other hobby/occupation but to me, this is just wrong. |
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| TishQ | Nov 11 2007, 11:22 AM Post #2 |
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Schooling
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From the moment that I began in the breeding business and owned and managed my own stallions it has been clearly understood that it is very bad form for a stallion owner or manager to bad mouth another stallion. Obviously we each prefer our own stallions or we would not dedicate our lives to continueing our bloodlines and producing horses that have the attiributes that our stallions carry and pass on to their foals. Perhaps this breeder was disappointed in the foals produced by the stallion they criticized. Maybe that just means they were not good crosses and the breeder should have done better homework. Or perhaps it is a reminder of the value of proven pre-potent stallions who consistently stamp their foals and pass on the best of themselves. |
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| Galileo1998 | Nov 11 2007, 11:38 AM Post #3 |
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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Perhaps the breeder was just disappointed in the five foals that they had and was expressing that disappointment? Take a stallion like Rosenthal as an example. If I looked at his website, and what I've read on COTH I would assume that he puts his stunning head onto every one of his offspring, however I have seen three Rosenthal foals this year, all bred by different breeders that did NOT have the stunning head I was expecting to see, in fact they were quite plain. They were lovely in their own right and very high quaility babies - they just didn't look like the babies on his website. So - with that in mind, if I picked him for a plain headed mare, expecting to see a china doll head pop out and instead saw a cinder block I would be disappinted in that aspect of the foal. I personally still really like Rosenthal and will consider him in the future, but I won't automatically expect a pretty, pretty head
I have no idea why not paying for breedings would make somebody not like a stallion I have been offered free breedings to a number of nice stallions for my fancy grey mare, and the offers have never made me like or dislike a stallion any more or less than I did before.
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| Silver Bells | Nov 11 2007, 02:21 PM Post #4 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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TQ... very elequently stated. There are no real guarantees... and each breeder has different expectations.
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| Hackinaround | Nov 11 2007, 02:37 PM Post #5 |
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We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
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For the reason mean children pick on each other. When you are busy bad mouthing another its deffers you/others from looking in your own back yard so to speak. Plain and simple. Lack of self esteem. If you are secure in your choices and feel faith in what you have to give to the masses then you dont feel the need to bash others. |
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| clearound | Nov 11 2007, 04:00 PM Post #6 |
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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These breedings were not free breedings. Rather, the breeder was stiffed by this alleged breeder/SO. |
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| railmom | Nov 11 2007, 05:01 PM Post #7 |
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We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
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I have to say all the Stallion owners I have dealt with have been outstanding and very professional! If you have great stallion you don't need to bash another to make him look good
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| Silver Bells | Nov 11 2007, 05:03 PM Post #8 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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Another good point... The breeders I have dealt with have ALL been forthright and stood behind their animals. I would not hesitate to do business with them again.
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| Ladybug Hill | Nov 11 2007, 07:36 PM Post #9 |
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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I think bashing in most forms is a sign of low self esteem or jealousy. |
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| Equine-Reproduction.com | Nov 11 2007, 10:41 PM Post #10 |
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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Because they are short sighted, don't realize/recognize how poorly it reflects on them and should realize that their own stallion isn't going to be perfect for every mare <smile>. With that said, I LOVE my stallion (Mannhattan). I think he's the best thing since sliced bread and he continues to amaze me with what he produces and who he is <smile>. BUT he's not right for every mare. And, who do I take his daughters to? I currently have only one mare that isn't a daughter of his and no matter how hard I try, I have never, ever in all my years of breeding, produced a filly when I breed to an outside stallion I may have to break down and buy a mare if my breedings this year don't produce a filly <sigh>....Or maybe TRADE...YEAH!!! That's the ticket <grin>. Doing what we do, we get to see some absolutely spectacular stallions up close and personal! I can't tell you how many times we get asked what we think of a particular stallion that we've frozen or handled. Our response is always the same - he has a penis and testicles and we froze his semen. It would be unprofessional to comment otherwise. I will comment on stallions that we breed our own mares to. I think that is appropriate as we're selecting stallions specifically for our own breeding program and whatever we/I say is going to be positive <smile>. If we've had the opportunity to meet the stallion in person, all the better as we've obviously liked the stallion sufficiently to pick him for our own mares. However, just because we haven't selected a stallion that we've handled or frozen in the past, does not mean that he isn't a spectacular creature - just that he wouldn't compliment our own mares. FWIW, we consider the stallion owner and the customer service we receive probably almost as important as the stallions we use. We've learned the hard way that no matter how phenomenal the stallion is, if the stallion owner/manager is difficult to work with, it just isn't worth it. There are so many stallions and stallion owners/managers out there that are truly spectacular to deal with and work with that one has to scratch your head and wonder why anyone would bad mouth someone else's stallion. And, it is interesting to note those stallion owners who's names are repeatedly mentioned as being great to work with over and over and over again on these bulletin boards. I think that speaks volumes about both their customer service AND their stallions! Mare owners should pay particularly close attention to those individuals Kathy St.Martin Equine Reproduction Short Courses http://www.equine-reproduction.com Check out our Holiday Enrollment Special!! |
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| RHowell | Nov 12 2007, 07:19 AM Post #11 |
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You're BANNED!
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I have to agree about the comments about low self esteem etc. With that said, however, I appreciate it when I'm talking to a stallion owner and they ask me what other stallions I'm considering/what I'm trying to breed for/away from/toward....if they happen to say I've heard that stallion improves X, or if there's a fault with his offspring that seems to be common, it tends to be Y as part of an overall conversation. For example, Abdullah long had a reputation for having kids who are a little wild, that's not to say they all were, but definitely not a good cross if someone's primary concern was getting a child safe horse....so if I'm talking to a breeder and they say something like "well, gosh, you're lookign at several talented stallions, but in evaluating the process, mine might be a wise choice because all of his children are born with lobotomies, but I'm a bit confused, is there something else that's also really important to you because I don't see how Abdullah fits in the mix since his babies tend to be more geared toward professionals than children....so is there something else that's really important to you like a strong jumper lineage...." well, I guess I'd appreciate that. I'm just using this as an extreme example....bashing for bashing sake I think is in extremely poor taste, but trying to help you make a wise choice among several considerations doesn't bother me so much....I value all knowledgeable people's opinions, even if they happen to own a stallion. |
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| Yaksmom | Nov 12 2007, 08:19 PM Post #12 |
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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As a (soon to not be) stallion owner, I know I have a tendancy to be harsh on other stallions - not the tried and true, but the ones that tend to be "flavor of the month" types... It is not because I view them as competition, because none of the stallions that I have ever commented on were even close to the same type as Yak, and none were TB's (OK, I HAVE commented on a few TB stallions - both of which I have used, and one I even got to sit on (AFR)!), but rather the fact that people see a pretty picture and then swarm like lemmings. I don't feel that I have been unnecessarily critical, but have pointed out the flaws of some of these stallions that I have seen in person. Even after Yak is a non-stallion, I will continue to post my HONEST OPINIONS in the same manner, maybe with a few less disclaimers. They are still MY opinions, and others may disagree. If I like a horse, I will say so. If I find some faults, I will point them out. If I wouldn't pull it out of a killpen, then I won't even bother to comment --- that is just how I tend to post. Nothing is ever meant to be mean spirited.Bashing is for kindergarteners. |
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| SpindleT | Nov 18 2007, 07:25 AM Post #13 |
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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It cracks me up sometimes that a stallion gets a bad rap but people tend to forget there there is also a mare involved in genetics and a person that raises the foal into maturity, etc. Its like they forget that those things are a HUGE part of the final outcome of the "prospect." |
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| Truly | Nov 18 2007, 08:19 PM Post #14 |
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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'Ain't that the truth!' I was speaking to someone this Summer that used to work with a well known stallion over here that had rumours going around that his offspring were bad tempered etc....she said the truth of it was that he was so laid back and kind that many mare owners that had bad tempered mares sent them to him hoping to improve the foals temperament and unfortunately they took after the mare and the stallion got the blame :-( |
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| clearound | Nov 19 2007, 10:06 PM Post #15 |
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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While I understand your point, this was not the case with this breeder/SO. In fact, she bragged to some that these were the best babies that she produced. Believe the bashing was nothng more than her being a ***** and to cause the SO she was bashing to suffer. |
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I would be disappinted in that aspect of the foal. I personally still really like Rosenthal and will consider him in the future, but I won't automatically expect a pretty, pretty head
I have been offered free breedings to a number of nice stallions for my fancy grey mare, and the offers have never made me like or dislike a stallion any more or less than I did before.

There are no real guarantees... and each breeder has different expectations.
The breeders I have dealt with have ALL been forthright and stood behind their animals. I would not hesitate to do business with them again.

I may have to break down and buy a mare if my breedings this year don't produce a filly <sigh>....Or maybe TRADE...YEAH!!! That's the ticket <grin>.
It would be unprofessional to comment otherwise.




1:22 AM Jul 11