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Epiphisitis???; Overfeeding
Topic Started: Sep 26 2007, 04:18 PM (1,021 Views)
Danielle Fournier
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We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
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Hey Everyong,

So my 3 month old WB colt by Westporte looks like his little ankles might be getting a bit square, the farrier said to cut back on his food from developing epiphisitis. She said he is not sore or anything but just to cut back whatever he is getting to make it go away. Apparently this is developed from getting too much Protein. Right now he goes out on grass all day (pretty much a dead field) so he can't be getting much from that. And he nibbles on his moms local which is good quality to keep weight on her, and nurses. But besides that he may munch on some of her grain because he is a PIG!!! We raised her grain bucket and put a board across so it is impossible for him to get his nose over to eat...I am not sure what else I can do. I am not even sure if he has epiphisits, I just don't want to risk it!

If anyone has any advice or has dealt with this before it would be much appreciated! Thanks!
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monami
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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Sounds like you are doing the right thing. If she is on sweet feed switch to pellets due to the sugars.
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Galileo1998
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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No, no, no, no and no. :brickwall: That is not directed at you :) but rather at farriers and vets that continue to give advice that is harmful to young horses.

Growing babies NEED protien, vitamins and minerals, if he's developing growth problems it is far more likely to be because of a LACK of proper nutrion, not an excess of it. Find a feed that is specifically designed for young, growing horses that is low in starches and feed it at the amounts suggested on the bag. If you can't feed the feed you have chosen at the amount suggested on the bag without your foal getting fat it is the wrong feed and you need to keep looking.

The advice your farrier gave you, and the advice many vets give is outdated and has been proven to be wrong.

Also, pelleted feeds very often have identical ingredients to some of the sweet feeds, they have just been put through a pelletizer - just feeding a pellet is not enough to know that what you are feeding is low in sugars and starches.
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Galileo1998
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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Here is an article from the Progressive Nutrition website that is helpful:
http://www.prognutrition.com/PDF_Files/Fee...Development.pdf

In the interests of "disclosure" :) I do work for the Canadian distributor of Buckeye and manage an equine feed store that sells Buckeye feeds. They have a similar article on their website but I don't want to present a biased view, I just want to make sure that you have accurate, up to date information. :)
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Silver Bells
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Magical Leopluridon
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Danielle,
Is this the first foal you bred? :huh:
I would consult your veternarian before a farrier, just my opinion. Experienced breeders also have tons of knowledge to share as well. This condition is NOT hereditary and can be eliminated without a trace if caught in time. :)
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spacely
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What Galileo said. I went down this road with my very first foal. It wasn't that he was geting too much, it's that it was not balanced correctly. Also, "starving" the mare is not the answer either as some will suggest. As SB said, it can resolve without a trace if caught & corrected quickly. Have a chat with your vet & modify your feeding program.
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monami
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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Galileo1998- We went through this with one of our foals and we were told to switch feed to one with less sugars and the problem went away.
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railmom
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We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
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I use Progressive's Rejuvenaide or Buckeye's Foal aid before they are eating enough of their own foal starter. This way you can make sure they are getting all the vitamins and minerals they need. It comes in a tube as a paste or in powder form that you add water to and squirt in their mouth with a syringe. The powder is less expensive but messier!
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Silver Bells
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Magical Leopluridon
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monami
Sep 27 2007, 10:17 AM
Galileo1998- We went through this with one of our foals and we were told to switch feed to one with less sugars and the problem went away.

How long does it take to clear up... maybe put the OP's mind at ease? :huh:
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monami
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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If i remember correctly it was a noticeable improvement in a few days. No idea if that is typical or not, it was my one and only experience.

The mare was eating Mare and Foal and was switched to Strategy.

I am in no way a nutritional expert.. just did what the vet said to do. Galileo has a ton of experience in this area.
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Galileo1998
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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Monami - I'm not really familiar with what Mare And Foal is so I can't really comment on it, is it a Purina product as well?

Strategy is a great product, and was developed fairly recently using the latest knowledge and research. It is not a low protien feed, it has a minimum of 14% protein. Where it really comes into it's own is that it is so digestible - it allows the horse to digest and make us of all of the protien, vitamins and minerals available.

There are loads of feeds out there that were forumlated in the early 80's using old ideas and they haven't changed since.

I would be interested in knowing what the starch levels, protein, vitamin and mineral levels are in the Mare and Foal as compared to Stategy. I think that would tell a lot more about the improvement in your foal rather than a change from a sweet to a pelletized feed.
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monami
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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Mare and Foal is a Blue Seal feed. I would LOVE to know why the switch made the difference. Let me see if I can find the nutritional info for you.

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Silver Bells
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Magical Leopluridon
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Does it disappear without a trace?
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Galileo1998
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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I found the info on the Blue Seal website :)

The Mare & Foal is higher in protien by 2%. It is lower in fat and lower in fiber by 4% so is likely to be higher in starch. The calcium/phosphorus ratio in Mare and Foal is about 1:1 which is fairly far off where it should be.

For a horse to absorb any phosphorus at all, it must be fed an equal amount of calcium. If the calcium is not being provided through feed or hay the horse has the ability to leach calcium from its bones - obviously not an ideal situation. Most nutritionists suggest a cal/phos ratio of 2:1 in the overall diet - something that Stategy does.

Based on the suggested feeding rate for Mare & Foal you would need to feed a four month old foal somewhere around 8 pounds a day if they weigh 400 lbs. If you feed less than that their need for protien, vitamins and minerals isn't being met. If I fed that much feed to any of my baby horses they would get far too fat - but if you feed less than the suggested amount you are short changing them on what research says they need.

Because Stategy is higher in higher in Copper, Manganese, Zinc, Vitamin A and Vitamin E it provides more nutrients to a horse when fed at the same rate as Mare and Foal, while also being lower in starch. Because it's not a super fortified feed though, you still need to feed about 7lbs a day to a 400lb 4 month old foal to meet their needs.

It's because of that sort of feeding rate that so many people are switching to ration balancers for babies. They allow you to get all the nutrients a foal needs into it while only feeding a few pounds a day so that they don't get fat :)

Hope that helps :) I will get off my soapbox now :)
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Silver Bells
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Magical Leopluridon
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Thanks for the preventative info... Does the problem reverse once the diet is changed? :huh:
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