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Any gardeners here? Or arborists?; Question about trees ... long
Topic Started: Sep 26 2007, 07:59 AM (298 Views)
Onelanerode
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Novice gardener here ... We bought our house in July -- builder had done some landscaping, put in some boxwoods, indian hawthorn, junipers and a Japanese maple.

The Japanese maple looked pretty bad and only got worse, shriveled leaves dropping off and such, so I thought as we had nothing to lose, I might as well dig it up and see what the soil condition was. I got 2' down and there's standing water at the bottom of the hole, and the whole way down it's nothing but heavy, smelly gray clay mud. So I put 1/2" of leftover leveling sand in the bottom of the hole, and then a foot or so of soil conditioner. (I have since done some reading and realized this may not have been the wisest course of action.) Plopped the tree back in, whereupon it perked up a bit and produced some little red buds, and then those died. Now the thing has no leaves at all and looks quite dead. I don't think it is, yet, at least, but is there anything I can do for it if it's not dead yet?

Then DH and I thought we'd plant a tree, so I did some research and found that river birches tend to do well in our area (eastern piedmont of NC). Our soil is supposed to be a fairly dense red clay, and this particular area seems to be rather rocky. I know it doesn't drain well (see above), but river birches are supposed to like moist soil. There are a number of them growing quite well nearby.

So the Saturday before last, we go to a good nursery, pick out what looks to us to be a healthy, 7' tall river birch in a 15 gallon tub. They give us a planting guide, we dig a hole (they said no deeper than the depth of the root ball, and up to 1/3 of the root ball's height above the ground if your soil drains poorly). We had had almost 6 inches of rain the evening before; the first 6 inches or so of soil was moist but not dripping wet, and once we got beyond that, it was fairly dry and quite rocky. We set the tree so the top of the root ball is about 3" above the ground, amending the soil with 1/3 Black Kow, 1/3 soil conditioner (w/ fertilizer added already) and 1/3 native soil. Hardwood mulch on top, 2-3 inches deep in a mound around the dripline. We watered it well, it looked great.

By Tuesday, it's droopy and at least half the leaves are wilted. I water it immediately and the next day what leaves hadn't wilted were looking perkier. I call the nursery, they say to water it well 1-2x/week and to give it a few more days (having watered the day before, I don't water Wednesday). A few days later, the wilted leaves have turned brown and are dropping off. It gets watered again well on Sunday.

I have a look at it yesterday evening, and now the leaves that had been green are turning brown and falling off. What's going on?! Transplant shock? Too much water? Too little water? How am I supposed to know? It's always looked nice and moist under the mulch, even when half the leaves wilted and later dropped off. How do I tell if it's dry at the bottom of the hole, or if it's a puddle down there? I feel like to some extent this is going to be trial and error, but I sure as heck don't want to kill the tree while I'm doing my trials! :(

Help?
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2hsmommy
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Maybe a slow soaking watering will help? I've used a bucket with a small small hole in it to water, it takes 24 hours for the bucket to drain. Maybe try doing that?
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jillincolorado
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Onelanerode
Sep 26 2007, 06:59 AM
Novice gardener here ... We bought our house in July -- builder had done some landscaping, put in some boxwoods, indian hawthorn, junipers and a Japanese maple.

The Japanese maple looked pretty bad and only got worse, shriveled leaves dropping off and such, so I thought as we had nothing to lose, I might as well dig it up and see what the soil condition was. I got 2' down and there's standing water at the bottom of the hole, and the whole way down it's nothing but heavy, smelly gray clay mud. So I put 1/2" of leftover leveling sand in the bottom of the hole, and then a foot or so of soil conditioner. (I have since done some reading and realized this may not have been the wisest course of action.) Plopped the tree back in, whereupon it perked up a bit and produced some little red buds, and then those died. Now the thing has no leaves at all and looks quite dead. I don't think it is, yet, at least, but is there anything I can do for it if it's not dead yet?

Then DH and I thought we'd plant a tree, so I did some research and found that river birches tend to do well in our area (eastern piedmont of NC). Our soil is supposed to be a fairly dense red clay, and this particular area seems to be rather rocky. I know it doesn't drain well (see above), but river birches are supposed to like moist soil. There are a number of them growing quite well nearby.

So the Saturday before last, we go to a good nursery, pick out what looks to us to be a healthy, 7' tall river birch in a 15 gallon tub. They give us a planting guide, we dig a hole (they said no deeper than the depth of the root ball, and up to 1/3 of the root ball's height above the ground if your soil drains poorly). We had had almost 6 inches of rain the evening before; the first 6 inches or so of soil was moist but not dripping wet, and once we got beyond that, it was fairly dry and quite rocky. We set the tree so the top of the root ball is about 3" above the ground, amending the soil with 1/3 Black Kow, 1/3 soil conditioner (w/ fertilizer added already) and 1/3 native soil. Hardwood mulch on top, 2-3 inches deep in a mound around the dripline. We watered it well, it looked great.

By Tuesday, it's droopy and at least half the leaves are wilted. I water it immediately and the next day what leaves hadn't wilted were looking perkier. I call the nursery, they say to water it well 1-2x/week and to give it a few more days (having watered the day before, I don't water Wednesday). A few days later, the wilted leaves have turned brown and are dropping off. It gets watered again well on Sunday.

I have a look at it yesterday evening, and now the leaves that had been green are turning brown and falling off. What's going on?! Transplant shock? Too much water? Too little water? How am I supposed to know? It's always looked nice and moist under the mulch, even when half the leaves wilted and later dropped off. How do I tell if it's dry at the bottom of the hole, or if it's a puddle down there? I feel like to some extent this is going to be trial and error, but I sure as heck don't want to kill the tree while I'm doing my trials! :(

Help?

Trees drop leaves when they're in shock, so yes, it could be just the transplanting. The tree itself is probably fine. Leaves are expendable.

Have you had any cool nights? It's possible that it's time for the deciduous trees to drop their leaves. It could be that it's just fall. :)

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Onelanerode
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We've had a few nights with temps in the mid-50s. I just talked to the "tree guy" at the nursery we got it from, and he suspects that the leaves dried out when we transported the tree home (was about a 45-minute ride, though all on back roads). He said they could lose about half their leaves, but to keep watering it twice a week and it should come back nicely in the spring. He did say they were tough to kill. I laughed and told him that was pretty much the whole reason we bought it! :duh:

Not sure about the Japanese maple though. I think that one's kicked the bucket for real. :unsure:
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jillincolorado
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Onelanerode
Sep 26 2007, 10:27 AM
We've had a few nights with temps in the mid-50s. I just talked to the "tree guy" at the nursery we got it from, and he suspects that the leaves dried out when we transported the tree home (was about a 45-minute ride, though all on back roads). He said they could lose about half their leaves, but to keep watering it twice a week and it should come back nicely in the spring. He did say they were tough to kill. I laughed and told him that was pretty much the whole reason we bought it! :duh:

Not sure about the Japanese maple though. I think that one's kicked the bucket for real. :unsure:

Treekiller! :point: :P

It may surprise you yet and make a miraculous appearance in the spring.
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mareseatoats
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As I recall from the master gardener program, trees generally don't die for real from a single de-foliation. I think that takes a couple or three years in a row.

I would have the soil tested at the local extension office. They will tell you the soil type you have and what amendments it needs.

When we transplant stuff there, we did holes that are significantly larger than the root ball and fill the bottom and sides in with high quality compost. That is the best soil conditioner there is -- it improves the water management of both clay and sandy soil types, helping clay to drain and helping sandy to hold onto moisture.
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La Gringa
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You may have contamination in the soil, and if you just took out dirt and put different dirt in, water will bring that contamination back into the hole the next time the plant is watered.

It sounds like a soil problem.

I would recommend if the plant is still alive, dig it up and move it to a different location altogether where you are not having this problem with other plants.

I'm an Landscape Architect..

Japanese maples shouldn't die like that, if they are in good soil conditions.

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Onelanerode
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Tom knows it wouldn't surprise me if it were a soil issue ... we've found all sorts of "interesting" things in there since we started digging around to plant various items. Lots of nails (need to go get that tetanus booster), bits of sheetrock, screws, random pieces of plastic and wire, and several unidentifiable objects.

The soil where we planted the birch didn't look bad ... rather heavy on the clay, but not overly wet or smelly. I do need to get a soil test done and will be doing so later this fall so I will better know what and how to plant things come spring.

Oddly enough, I've got seven miniature roses out there in the flower beds, which have the worst soil I've ever seen (heavy, wet, smelly gray clay mud). I dug that out, made a nice 1'-2' diameter hole and filled with planting mix soil. Those roses have just taken off ... I've got one in particular that's tripled in size and is blooming like you wouldn't believe. :)


And yes ... I do seem to be a treekiller. :lonely: But ... maybe the maple will come back?
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Jersey Fresh
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You need to water trees when they are first planted pretty much everyday or every other day for the first week or two until the roots start to be established. Most people underwater their plants. But it also could be that the leaves are coming off because its fall and thats what trees do when it gets cold =)

(<---kills her own houseplants and has a black thumb, but is lucky enough to have a horticulturist boyfriend) :)
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