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Freedom of Speech being taken away?
Topic Started: Sep 18 2007, 05:18 PM (862 Views)
La Gringa
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Starving Artist
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http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=fbc6...90e305&f=00&fg=

This really made me mad today. It was on the nightly news. Is the Administration really trying to take our first amendement right way?

:brickwall:
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horseless no more
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Magical Leopluridon
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no not really even though not a 'declaired war' as in no 'declaration of war'was signed we are in a 'state of war' and rules change during suchand there has not been one signed since we entered WWII . And as the reporter pointed out there have always been some things that just are for want of a better word illegal to say such as yelling fire in a crowded theater. Or you can not walk into a gun shop ask or purchase a gun and when in casual conversation ( which I can only assume happense as I have never bought a gun) you when asked what you plan on doing with it you can not say ' well I plan on shooting the president with it.'. And yeah some bozo did actually do that in Norfolk Va. shortly after Clinton took office and was comming to the Naval base there. He was arrested and charged with what ever law there is pertaining to that.

As for the no longer being able to photograph the bodies of returning dead troops. Have you been to Andrews since 9-11? which is whee a lot of bodies return through beofre sent home. I have no granted it has been 2 almost 3 years but they are still on highten alert with barriers little wiggle room to where school buses have difficult time manovering and certian areas are covered with those portable car ports which the buses just almost do not fit through. And press vans are taller than school buses with their stuff on top. Oh yeah they also do a 100% ID check and it is a Dod ID check not a 'press' ID check. The only exceptions are dependant children under the age of 10 who go under their parents ID card. 10yrs and 1 day and that child had better have ad ID card.

With the guy yesterday at the Kerry rally is is being speculated that perhaps he set it up to get the publicity for what cause who konws for what reason who konws why as far as I am concernd if he did set it up he must be a few card short of a full deck. But I did not watch it as I do not watch cable or national news since they seem to become one subject 24/7 until the horse is dead, beat, dead again and finally buried to long of a time frame later.. think it was about the lacy peterson time frame when I finally said enough. And have stuck with local news only. I read national news in the paper or on line.

As for Sally Fields an awards cermony is no place for political statements good bad or other wise. And if she is upset because her language was bleeped out and I can only assume that is was language that would have been bleeped out anyway as I do not watch awards shows if she is bitching about that then perhaps she better rethink her language before she get infront of a mic. again. People watch those things to watch the awards not to hear foul laguage. If they want Jerry Springer type language they will watch Jerry Springer. I do not watch Jerry Springer either but when channel surfing hard not to know when surfing over that show.



While freedom of speech is a constutional right there has been restrictions and always will be. that is why we have certian restrictions put into place called laws and editing. Like I can not call you(for example) a "Peir slut" and mean it either in type or out loud that is called slander and/or lible.. rights have their limits and with the rights we do have we must practice common sense and use the brain power given to us upon birth not to just assume we can say anything that happens to flow throgh our brains.

There are many cases in which freedom of speech has been taken before the Sup court Im sure you can find them if you look them up and it doesnt matter if it was the Burger the Warren or any other court they all basically say the samethign on their rulings. Freedom of speech is one of our basic freedome we hold dear to us but while it is one we as citizens of this country must us personel censorship to decide what is and is not approate to say and or do and say and or do the correct things at the correct time. It is not something we can just do when we want. That of course is very paraphrased as it has been 25 or so years since I took my constutional law class... and iirc there are very few if any descents to these rulings.


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La Gringa
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I couldn't disagree with you more HNM but that's always the case. <_<

I think our first amendment rights are being infringed upon. War or not, it's our right.

For people to be arrested for wearing an anti Bush T shirt, that is just messed up, and the court agreed. They were awarded $80k by the court.

I heard on WTOP this morning that this president has the lowest approval ratings in History, the lowest approval in Congress in History. Everything that is being done is messed up.

Sorry, but I think that majority speaks here. This latest thing with the Free Speech stuff is just the latest in the long list of items that are really taking a dive in our country.

I hope someone can step up to the plate and remedy this kind of thing before even more damage is done.

I was just shocked to see that on the news last night, and I am sure I am not alone. :jaw:

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cindeye
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BONG HITS 4 JESUS!

Freedom of speech case heard by the US Supreme court this summer.

I wholly support BONG HITS 4 JESUS!
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La Gringa
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cindeye
Sep 19 2007, 09:17 AM
BONG HITS 4 JESUS! 

Freedom of speech case heard by the US Supreme court this summer. 

I wholly support BONG HITS 4 JESUS!

Yeah Cindeye, that was my favorite of all!!! :clap:
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Buryinghill1
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If you post the right words or phrases in an email, I hear Dubya's boys'll add you to their list of undesirables :innocent:

such as

Osama bin Laden
bomb the White House
vote for Hillary
Impeach George W Bush
George W Bush suc*s
O J was framed
Visit Cuba
Visit Libya
Dick Cheyney is psychotic
The Dixie Chicks were right

:psycho:

Heck, I didn't vote them into office. The current administration is more crooked than Nixon.
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horseless no more
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Magical Leopluridon
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So what else is new but then again I do not see the boogie man behind every Republican .. funny how the congress has its lowest ratings..
Anyway you would also disagree with these folks
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/First_amendment

*Bethel School District v Fraser (1986)

Matthew Fraser, a high school student in Bethel, Washington, delivered a speech nominating a fellow student for a student elective office. The speech was made during school hours as a part of a school-sponsored educational program in self-government. The voluntary assembly was attended by about 600 students, many of whom were 14-year-olds. Throughout the speech, the student deliberately referred to his candidate in terms of an elaborate and explicit sexual metaphor. The reactions of the students varied from enthusiastic hooting and yelling to embarrassment and bewilderment. Before the speech, the student had discussed it with several teachers, and two teachers told him they thought it was not appropriate. The student was suspended for three days for having violated the school's "disruptive conduct" rule, which prohibited conduct that substantially interfered with the educational process, including the use of obscene, profane language or gestures.

The U.S. Supreme Court held that the school board acted entirely within its permissible authority in punishing Fraser for "his offensively lewd and indecent speech." This was not a situation where Fraser was sanctioned for expressing a political viewpoint as in the Tinker "armband" case; the sexual innuendo was incidental to the merits of the candidate who was being nominated. "It is a highly appropriate function of public school education to prohibit the use of vulgar and offensive terms in public discourse . . . Schools must teach by example the shared values of a civilized social order."

The Court repeated its recognition of an interest in protecting minors from exposure to vulgar and offensive spoken language. Even in a heated political discourse among adults, the Court emphasized the need for consideration for the personal sensibilities of the audience. "A high school assembly or classroom is no place for a sexually explicit monologue directed towards an unsuspecting audience of teenage students." The Court also stated that the school regulation and the negative reactions of two teachers gave Fraser sufficient notice that his speech might result in his suspension.

and
Dennis v. United States (1951)

Eugene Dennis was a leader of the Communist Party in the United States between 1945 and 1948. He was arrested in New York for violation of Section 3 of the "Smith Act." The Act prohibited advocation of the overthrow of the United States Government by force and violence. The government felt that the speeches made by Dennis presented a threat to national security. Dennis appealed his conviction to the Supreme Court of the United States, claiming that the Smith Act violated his First Amendment right to Free Speech. At issue was whether the Smith Act violated the First Amendment provision for freedom of speech or the Fifth Amendment due process clause.

The Court found that the Smith Act did not violate Dennis' First Amendment right to free speech. Although free speech is a guaranteed right, itis not unlimited. The right to free speech may be lifted if the speech presents a clear and present danger to overthrow any government in the United States by force or violence. Since the speech made by Dennis advocated his position that the government should be overthrown, it represented a clear and present danger to the national security of the United States.

and

Dennis v. United States (1951)

Eugene Dennis was a leader of the Communist Party in the United States between 1945 and 1948. He was arrested in New York for violation of Section 3 of the "Smith Act." The Act prohibited advocation of the overthrow of the United States Government by force and violence. The government felt that the speeches made by Dennis presented a threat to national security. Dennis appealed his conviction to the Supreme Court of the United States, claiming that the Smith Act violated his First Amendment right to Free Speech. At issue was whether the Smith Act violated the First Amendment provision for freedom of speech or the Fifth Amendment due process clause.

The Court found that the Smith Act did not violate Dennis' First Amendment right to free speech. Although free speech is a guaranteed right, itis not unlimited. The right to free speech may be lifted if the speech presents a clear and present danger to overthrow any government in the United States by force or violence. Since the speech made by Dennis advocated his position that the government should be overthrown, it represented a clear and present danger to the national security of the United States.

and

Debs v. United States (1919)

Eugene V. Debs, a well known socialist, gave a public speech to an assembly of people in Canton, Ohio. The speech was about the growth of socialism and contained statements which were intended to interfere with recruiting and advocated insubordination, disloyalty, and mutiny in the armed forces. Debs was arrested and charged with violating the Espionage Act of 1917. At issue was whether the United States violated the right of freedom of speech given to Debs in the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

The Supreme Court of the United States upheld the lower court's decision in favor of the United States. The Court said that Debs had actually planned to discourage people from enlisting in the Armed Forces. The Court refused to grant him protection under the First Amendment freedom of speech clause, stating that Debs "used words [in his speech] with the purpose of obstructing the recruiting service." Debs' conviction under the Espionage Act would stand, because his speech represented a "clear and present danger" to the safety of the United States.

and

Schenck v United States (1919)

Charles Schenck was arrested for violating the Espionage Act, passed by Congress in 1917. The Espionage Act made it illegal to defame the government or do anything that might retard the war effort. Schenck, a member of the Socialist Party, opposed the war and printed and distributed pamphlets urging citizens to oppose the draft which he likened to slavery. Schenck claimed his first amendment rights were violated.

The court ruled against Schenck saying that the Espionage Act did not violate the first amendment and that in times of war the government may place reasonable limitations on freedom of speech. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes outlined the courts opinion by explaining that when a "clear and present danger" existed such as shouting fire in a crowded theater, freedom of speech may be limited.


source for above cases.

now if you notice the dates of these cases none of them have happened since 2000. SO how exactally are you going to blame Bush for these or the Sup court?

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La Gringa
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buryinghill1
Sep 19 2007, 10:40 AM
If you post the right words or phrases in an email, I hear Dubya's boys'll add you to their list of undesirables :innocent:

such as

Osama bin Laden
bomb the White House
vote for Hillary
Impeach George W Bush
George W Bush suc*s
O J was framed
Visit Cuba
Visit Libya
Dick Cheyney is psychotic
The Dixie Chicks were right

:psycho:

Heck, I didn't vote them into office. The current administration is more crooked than Nixon.

:lol: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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horseless no more
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Magical Leopluridon
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And if one spoke out against Hiltery and her dh you would be suprised what would come down the pipe even if you did not vote for the idiot.
but typicle liberal faced with fact toss something unrelated into the mix.. And the list of things has been around since WWII and was especally enforced under Hoover's reign at the FBI.
Want more crooked than Nixon look to the previous adminstration and see what he really did like not balance the budget want the links I have them he actually VETOED that bill.. but he sure loved to take credit for it even though it was only projected and on paper...
And lets see what did his ads say while running somethign to the effect tht he would not use AF 1 as much as the previous adminstrations had seems to me when all was said and done he used it more not only offical but for personel use remeber the hair cut that shut down was it not LAX for over an hr... He did do 2 things correct.. In his first enagural he aknoleged that he was recieving a wonderful economy and it would take several years before anythign he did would do anything to the economy. And he did give the militayr the higest pay raise since at least WWI if not in the history of our military ( will have to research it I know the date line when it happened but it was during his first term and that was not a popular move with the libs in congress). Those I give him credit for.. Everything else he was horrid most favored nation status for China... More socal programs when we didnt need any to begin with, cutting defense and intel bedgets but of course the consertives get blamed when they actually increqased the spending more than what slick wanted..
YOu want fact I have them which one you want? And no they are not from sources such as whats his name drudge or what ever the name is .. But places such as USA Today , NY times, Washington Times/post ( one if not both).



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cindeye
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BONG HITS 4 JESUS!
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La Gringa
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cindeye
Sep 19 2007, 07:21 PM
BONG HITS 4 JESUS!

Jesus probably did some sort of drugs in his day. Opium use was common among people back then, before modern medicine.

Jesus kind of does look like a hippie. :lol:

BONG HITS FOR JESUS.


GEORGE BUSH SUX.

HAHAHHA.

Arrest me HNM.


If Hillary wins the election.... watch out right wingers.

I think she's got a real shot.
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cindeye
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BONG HITS 4 JESUS!

Cornell University review of Bong Hits 4 Jesus Supreme Court ruling

Freedom of speech is dead in the US. The founding fathers would be shocked...shocked, I tell you!
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appylady
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I have a friend in the Secret Service. I always send him "Bush is stupid" e-mails and talk about it on the phone. He sends me the same kind of emails, but does tend to react with "ARghhhhh, let me turn off the record feature on the phone before you say things like that!" :teehee: Nobody is going to come and get you just because you say you don't like someone. Threats are another matter.

I was stunned by the taser incident the other night. This country is going down the toilet as fast as Georgie Boy can get it there.
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Nanelle
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hey Gringa, sorry, but I fully support HNM, seems really interesting. Of course, you will say, you live in Peru... but remember I do think I am a sensible and sensitive person (ok... <_< )

Imagine if I could just say anything I wanted, anywhere, without any restraint... that would not go down well

I mean, I can't go to your house and call you names... even if I have a Freedom of Speech... I do have to behave as per an "agreed upon" common system that doesn't even need to STATE that I can't do or say certain things because... IT SIMPLY AIN'T RIGHT... :)

luffs ya girl anyway... :hug:
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Lawndart
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appylady
Sep 20 2007, 12:48 PM


I was stunned by the taser incident the other night. This country is going down the toilet as fast as Georgie Boy can get it there.

But did you see the follow up to the Taser story? They showed this kids history of trying to incite strong emotions in people. I saw a piece of tape where he was standing on a street corner with a sign saying "Harry DIES" when the new Harry Potter book came out. Laughing like an loon because people were shouting and honking at him.

Before you all go ballistic, I don't think using a Taser on this dude was right. But, if you hear how he has been a problem on campus since the day he got there, pitting one group against another, you can kind of see how the security staff was probably at the end of their patience with him. :mallet:

Did Kerry ever answer any of the questions he was asking?
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