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Ideas for Teaching Head Down in a Head Up Horse?; Ex-Big Lick TWH!
Topic Started: Jul 26 2007, 07:19 AM (521 Views)
spookhorse
Weanling
[ * ]
Hey guys,

I have a project horse here, my ex- Big Lick Tennessee Walking Horse. He gets real fast and pacey with flashes of flat walk (with lots of work) and running walk. We are talking a horse whose got the physical and mental scars to prove he was abused. Sweet horse, he's just been trained into GOGOGO for a long time. Cannot use any leg on him as it results in a jump forward so probably spurred badly at some point.

I've had him since Nov and it took some time to rehab his hooves and put 300 lbs on him. So early this summer we started schooling and found that he had no flat walk, and without the stacks, he's pacey as all get-out. Not comfy to ride and he would go way too fast!

He gets pacey when he throws his head up which is whenever he gets nervous. He calms and slows down when he gets the head down. He is getting calmer with riding and encouraging the head down, but I was wondering if anyone had any tips to teach a horse to actually put his head down on command under saddle?

Thanks!
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DairyQueen2049
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DRAGON BREATH. DRAGGIN' BUTT
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Nope.

What this fella will take is time, kindness, patience and more time, asking him to relax, letting him relax, some more time where he feels no pressure, and life gets better and then more time.

There are no quick fixes.

Now, if you want him to lower his head on command while you are on the ground John Lyons has some tips on that.

And yeah to you for giving him a nice home, good groceries and the time to heal his mind and body. :cheer:
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AC & Ty
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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You know..if you have trails where you are, I would just trail ride with quiet, experienced company. For several months. Get the "ring" idea out of his head completely. I would just have leisurely walks...that's all.

He's just got to learn to be a"horse"! :)
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spookhorse
Weanling
[ * ]
No real trails where I am at right now, I ride along a KY country road if I go off property. I have a trailer, but have not been comfy taking him off property too much just yet as he can get real strong when he gets it into his head. Occasionally my fiance will go and ride my other mare who takes care of him as a mostly non-rider but it's hard to pay attention to both horses and a novice rider all at once when Buddy gets headstrong.

Since a bit change last week Buddy has been going much better. Couldn't get on him much after the initial switch as I had a busy week, but this week he is progressing more than he had since I started getting on him back in May. Changed his bit from a tom thumb to a sweet iron floating spade. In his prior life it was the typical Walking Horse bits :pissed: Anyways, I think he likes the way the new bit breaks in his mouth. He's got a father funny shaped mouth, probably has low bars. When you put a bit in his mouth, the place it fits hardly makes a wrinkle as opposed to the whole two wrinkles we are always told is proper.

He used to take off at a pace and you could not slow him down, he had go and a verbal whoa and nothing in between. He was great with groundwork, but once that saddle went on all bets were off... as of this week he will still do a couple rounds a bit fast and pacey with his head up, but then he will settle down, put his head down, and get a flat walk or a running walk/stepping pace (not sure which easy gait he's doing). He's also getting more supple and he had no problem with 20 foot circles, serpentines, and figure 8s today when he has so far never been able to slow himself down enough, keep his hooves under him, or concentrate on doing them. He actually seemed to enjoy the figure 8s and was anticipating the turns each way today :)

I am very proud of him today and am finally feeling like we are accomplishing something in his training!
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Anyplace Farm
Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
One thing you should get him used to right away is leg. Avoiding using leg just perpetuates the problem because what's going to happen? Once you have him quiet, then all of a sudden when you put your leg on him, he's going to freak out and be back to square 1. Start getting him used to leg now. Do lots of sensible changes of direction. Sensible meaning not something that is going to spin him off his feet. I worked with one that we literally did: circle, half-halt, half turn in reverse that direction, then half turn in reverse the other direction (basically a small figure 8) then walk straight a bit and do the whole thing all over again -- did that ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the way around the ring both directions for a LOOOOOOONG time and the thing finally figured out how to walk.

The idea is, it can only walk so fast and so long when it is doing frequent changes of direction. You do a half halt at the top of each new change of direction. All the while, guiding with your legs (don't get pinchy with your knee because you are afraid of putting your lower leg on it).

This exercise worked with two I've had to fix and it is also a great warm up for any horse. Gets all muscles stretched each side and gets them using their haunches and on the bit without even trying. Once he relaxes, you can eventually get him to do it on a longer rein or do long rein long walk at the end.
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avery
We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
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i suppose i'm a cheater, but i suggest a shadow roll. it's like a big fluffy fleece halter noseband wrap, but you put it on the noseband of your bridle. it's used in racing for horses that jump shadows on the ground and for jumpers who raise their heads. the idea is that the horse can't see the ground, or the jump in front of it, if it lifts its head. you don't want to have to use it all the time, but it will give him and yourself some time/space to calm down and learn correctly.

but honestly, i think you should also consider whether you and the TWH are a good fit for each other. even without abuse, TWHs are very flashy tempered (they are bred for that), very forward (saddleseat uses no leg contact expect to ask the horse to go forward), have a very high head set (naturally), and have naturally animated gaits (and you're looking for a flat walk). if you're looking for a relaxed, slow, comfy ride you don't need a TWH, you need a quarter horse. i think it's only fair for the horse to have a rider who appreciates who he is. it sounds like you trying to turn a poodle into a retriever. it is completely possible, and i think you will succeed eventually, it's not like you're trying to get a shetland pony to do grand prix jumpers. but is it fair to turn a lefty into a righty because the teacher is used to teaching righties?
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spookhorse
Weanling
[ * ]
avery
Aug 1 2007, 08:10 AM
but honestly, i think you should also consider whether you and the TWH are a good fit for each other. even without abuse, TWHs are very flashy tempered (they are bred for that), very forward (saddleseat uses no leg contact expect to ask the horse to go forward), have a very high head set (naturally), and have naturally animated gaits (and you're looking for a flat walk). if you're looking for a relaxed, slow, comfy ride you don't need a TWH, you need a quarter horse. i think it's only fair for the horse to have a rider who appreciates who he is. it sounds like you trying to turn a poodle into a retriever. it is completely possible, and i think you will succeed eventually, it's not like you're trying to get a shetland pony to do grand prix jumpers. but is it fair to turn a lefty into a righty because the teacher is used to teaching righties?

I'm quite familiar with both abuse cases and TWHs, thanks :) The breed is actually known to be a lot more even tempered and forgiving than people give them credit for. If you only went by what you see in the show ring with TWHs, you would think that TWHs are just as hot tempered as the worst TBs or ASBs you've ever seen when that is not true at all.

We are actually quite a good fit, he just needs work and believe me, there aren't too many people out there that want to take on a horse like this. I do not consider him sellable at this point if even I wanted to. It's not really trying to turn a poodle into a retriever, it's trying to slowly undo the damage that has been done to him.

I think you misunderstand what I am trying to accomplish with Buddy. I'm not trying to turn him into an "easy ride" for me. I'm trying to turn him into the horse he actually is when you work past the improper training techniques and the horrible hoof angles affecting his conformation and way of going, the lack of desensitizing his sides to natural contact, the mental scars from someone having smacked him around, etc.

And any horse should be trained to get into the gear you want when you want it, flat walk in a gaited horse included! You're welcome to come try him out if you want and then you can tell me if you can think of anyone who wants a horse with only one FAST and JARRING gait in a straight line :) Frankly, I want him, but I want him to be who he is capable of being, and fast and jarring is not the only thing this horse is about.
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DairyQueen2049
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DRAGON BREATH. DRAGGIN' BUTT
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spookhorse - I consider the TWH the poor horse of the horse world - the hardest worker and kindest temperment makes them easy prey for bullies of the human world.

What other breed would put up with all the abused heaped on a TWH but the TWH? Chains, high heels, ear twitches - midevil, sadistic crap that would have nay other breed a-killin humans these horses put up with.

Bless you for your rescue of this horse.

May your patience and kind heart win him over. :hug:

Give him time - that's what my mare needed. :hug:
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spookhorse
Weanling
[ * ]
DairyQueen2049
Aug 2 2007, 04:39 AM
spookhorse - I consider the TWH the poor horse of the horse world - the hardest worker and kindest temperment makes them easy prey for bullies of the human world.

What other breed would put up with all the abused heaped on a TWH but the TWH? Chains, high heels, ear twitches - midevil, sadistic crap that would have nay other breed a-killin humans these horses put up with.

Bless you for your rescue of this horse.

May your patience and kind heart win him over. :hug:

Give him time - that's what my mare needed. :hug:

DQ, you've echoed the thoughts I've had about Walkers ever since I met the breed and found out what many of them endure!

While my two aren't the best representatives of the breed in gait, their temperaments more than make up for their lack of "proper" gait (got one pacey, one trotty :teehee: ) Buddy may be pacey, strong, and fast, but my 6 year old daughter loves him and he will stand over her and put his big head practically in her lap! And Belle is just as gentle when it comes to the munchkin hanging around her feet. Belle is very smart and has most recently learned to put her front feet on a solid pallet (until I get a pedestal) and shake hands :P She was also an abuse case, but we've had 3+ years together and she's done a 180!

And thanks! :hug:
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