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| Hunter breeding very discouraging times | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 18 2007, 06:41 AM (1,663 Views) | |
| hunterbreedingjunkie | Jul 18 2007, 06:41 AM Post #1 |
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Weanling
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I really hope that I can find some other people who show hunter breeding who would like to step up to the plate on some big issues that need to be taken to the USEF. There is a horse show at Barrington Hill this friday in Fl that myself and some others are having some problems with. 1. This farm was scheduled to have one show this year and was allowed to add three more shows just a couple of weeks ago. HB is pretty new to Fl and this year there is a show almost every friday. There are people down here who are taking their horses to every single show which is just too much on a young horse. I can't understand why the USEF is allowing people to add more shows after the show year is in full force. 2. This show has decided to not allow braiding and the person running this horse show was at Venice on monday speaking of how she would not accept your entry if you were braided or somehow the judge would be made aware that you were somehow breaking a rule by braiding your horse. I am very old fashioned and take great sorrow in being told that I will not be allowed to enter a show where I can not present my horse at the level that I expect. 3. The person running this show picks her judges (that's normal) but then proceeds to show her own horses for those same judges. If I was jumping my horse, I would not be allowed to show if my trainer was judging. I know this person is VERY NEW to the horse world and I have no problem with people wanting to get involved in HB (I love it). What I can't understand is what seems like such unfair rules from someone who hasn't been around long enough to know where these traditions evolve from. To show in one class at this horse show is upwards of $250. to $300. for a HB class. I have decided to cancel my entry as a way to boycott the idea of having to show an unbraided conformation horse and also in my frustration of someone being allowed to show under the judges they have hired. It's not that hard to be best young horse when your horse show fees and rules make it so that no one else shows up and you hired your own judges to judge the four or five horses in your barn against themselves. All of this point chasing is stupid if you not ever competing against anyone. OOOOOHHHH I miss VA where the good horseman live. Please some of you who know what your doing help me with some if these issues. I have already gone to the USEF to try and figure out a plan to fix the VERY OPEN rules.
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| Silver Bells | Jul 18 2007, 06:55 AM Post #2 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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Point chasing is a pet peeve of mine as well. This is practiced in EVERY zone all over the country, and not just isolated to Florida. However, all I can do is choose not to subject my horses to that. Shows are very expensive to put on these days. There are so many hidden expenses coupled with the obvious ones. There seems to be a movement all over regarding braiding. Some say yes, some say know. In my opinion, it's a matter of opinion. We all know that a braided horse looks exquisite. I happen to feel braiding young horses for HB is ridiculous, but until this practice is accepted by EVERYONE, those of us who do not braid will possibly think this is why I was second instead of first. It is customary for the show manager to pick the judges. If you don't like the judges stay home. I have also seen show managers at HB shows exhibit animals of their own. Not uncommon. I say instead of FOCUSING on the negative aspects, look at all the positive points. Here is someone that is trying to promote HB in Florida. Yes she owns a stallion, yes she has young horses to show and sell, and yes she has not been doing this for many years. So what!!!!! She is helping to create a showcase to promote breeding in this country. AND Yes I happen to love Escapade and even own one of his offspring.... Yes I have been encouraging Alicia to have shows, clinics etc... I would do the same for any other breeder I believed in!Hunterbreedingjunkie.... If there are "too many" shows, then pick and choose your schedule. I am very confused as to why you have decided to single out this particular show, person, and farm any chance you get. <_< Are all the other shows, places and people so exemplary? Is there a way to work this out and get all the other HB enthusiasts involved and be objective? I would be glad to help any way I can since ALL parties involved could do so much more working together.
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| clearound | Jul 18 2007, 07:31 AM Post #3 |
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Thomas H. Cruise!
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HBJ - I think you might be a tad bit paranoid if you thought that SB was blasting you and not addressing your points. Please reread his post and you will see that he addressed all your points. As to the entries, judging, braiding issues that you have with this show, the easy answer is don't go. That is what free enterprise is all about. If enough people feel the same way that you do, BH will have to change the way they do their shows. On another note, perhaps people would take your posts more seriously if it did not seem that you have a personal vendetta against BHl
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| headlesshorseman | Jul 18 2007, 07:41 AM Post #4 |
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You're BANNED!
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OUCH!!! HBJ...I feel for you...but at least you HAVE hunter breeding shows to attend..or not attend..where I live they have all but PHASED them out..so...I sit with 2 nice 2 year olds waiting for next year????? then what???? The braiding thing In my opinion..which doesn't mean squat...should be an option..that would be nice, wouldn't it???? that way you can braid your horse and I don't have to..I don't know how to do it..so I'll save the $$$$ if I choose not to braid..and maybe the braided horse will look like you spent the time or money to make your baby look like the hunter it will become..and mine will look sloppy and loose... IF this lady is New, like myself..then maybe she doesn't know how to braid..or she DOES NOT have the time to do all her horses and doesn't want to pay $75.00 per horse to get it done???? Again, I feel for you, and it must be to see and go thru this..but I'm sure it happens at every show...and since this is a new one, it seems to stand out more. Or maybe you and she are always "going after" the same ribbons at the same shows, with the same horses???? and you feel that she's gonna win anyway, so why go????I SAY.... Go forth and show...if you win you HAVE the better horse....just think of it like that... HH I added...that while I was writing this..a few more posts were made..so I think I will sit this one out..have a nice day.. |
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| Silver Bells | Jul 18 2007, 07:44 AM Post #5 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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WOW .... HBJ Sorry you feel that way. I am not sure you and I are reading the same thing. You have finally and officially lost me.... I just wish you were not so extreme. I feel for you and your frustration as well.
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| justbay | Jul 18 2007, 07:56 AM Post #6 |
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We're on a bridge, Chaaaaaaaaarlie!
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I am having trouble understanding the stomping and sreaming. To address your OP points: Good Ol Virginie has also added HB shows at the end of the show year. On Saturdays and Sundays very late in the year that are not on any schedule. So, in this particular FL situation that you are speaking of is definately not an isolated incident. It is obviously allowed, as the show manager got the dates, whether we as competitors like it or not. Braiding. I think you should have an option. However, at Raleigh Indoors, horses are not braided, including for the model of the Conformation Hunters. No one braids. There is "no" braiding. Lexington winter shows has optional braiding. Show managers have been hiring judges and having their customers, children and professional riders show under these judges for years. Middleburg Classic comes to mind just off the top of my head. Show prices? It costs a lot to show. Show managers set the fees and expenses depending on the facility, the judges, the set up, the clean up and the staff it takes to run the show. I find it very variable. If you want to take your toys out of the sandbox, no one can stop you, and I don't think anyone is asking you too. But you are getting bent out of shape on a BB ?? I don't know who your family members are, and I am not trying to pick on you. I just wanted to address your OP comments. |
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| BABYGREENTB | Jul 18 2007, 07:56 AM Post #7 |
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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What's with all the drama? |
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| seal harbor | Jul 18 2007, 08:03 AM Post #8 |
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Administrator
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OY. People please breathe. We have no HB classes here in the PNW. Which is too bad because I have a 3 year old I would have liked to taken and done them with just to get him use to being in the ring. He has been to a couple of week long away shows to hang out and get the idea, although braiding and going in the ring would have been helpful as well. I think HBJ said in the original post that the judges in the HB classes at this show have been the person's trainer. I might be confused. That is certainly not cricket. I have been with a barn where the manager also showed at the show. I don't know if the rules have changed since then (90's) because I haven't had to be concerned. I don't understand how braiding can be banned. If a person wants to braid that is their prerogative, can management actually direct the judge not to use a horse with braids? I think not. This is a kinder, gentler board - we are here to learn and discuss. While I understand it's difficult not to - don't bring baggage from other boards here. This is a fresh start, clean slate place. Try not to let past dealings with people color your posts. Breathe, have fun, put your heads together and make good changes to the thing we are all passionate about - horses. |
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| hunterbreedingjunkie | Jul 18 2007, 08:05 AM Post #9 |
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Weanling
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You guys please don't repond to this post. Never mind. Never mind. Never mind. If I could figure out a way to get the original post off I would. I will just let HB go on the path it is headed. PLEASE DO NOT ADD TO THIS POST!! |
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| lauriep | Jul 18 2007, 12:12 PM Post #10 |
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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Let me try to take this in a more general, "the rules are so ambiguous that you can do almost anything in the HB ring because there is no rule specifically saying you can't" direction. Which I think is the real gist of the OP's topic. She used the braiding and the judging at a show local to her as an (unfortunate) example. And, when she called me to tell me about this, my response was "Oh, they can't do that (not let you show if you are braided)!" But, according to the USEF, they can, since there is no HB rule that addresses braiding, each show can do what it wants. My personal experience with this ambiguity came last year when a BNH in PA was showing more than one horse per class. I went immediately to the steward, who initially thought I had a point, but turns out that whenever there is no rule specifically stating you can't do something, then you can! Even if it seems very much unethical, as this did to me. But hey! By the end of the day, we had 3 horses needing to be in the ring for BYH, so, at my urging, our handler "took" all 3 back and won! Hence, Devon's specific (to Devon) rule that there is only one horse per handler allowed. I think the HB rules are pretty darn poor. Apparently, this same BNH is now trying to change the movement required to "jogging" instead of "trotting" because he is unable, due to health reasons, to really trot his horses out. IF THAT IS ALLOWED TO GO THROUGH, then you all who have nice moving, big trotting horses, will NOT be able to move them to their best advantage, but will need to rein them in to a jog, as that will be the rule. My point is, our rules need to really be gone over to assess them for fairness and to be sure special interests aren't making the rules just for them or abusing them. I think that we all agree that we want conformationally correct, well-conditioned horses that move well and give the impression they will go on to stellar hunter performance careers, and that also have the distinct look of a hunter, as opposed to a dressage or jumper/sport horse type. Until everyone here really studies the rules, and sees the flaws in them, then insists that our HB committee, which I think has way too much good ole boy stuff going on, do what we want to make the sport the way we want it, and encourage both nice young horses, and new owners/handlers, we will be stuck having this same old argument over and over. I volunteer to serve on a committee to review these rules if that is ever a possibility. And, I want to tell you, braiding is not only a sign of respect for horse and judge, it is HUNTER TRADITION, and we are losing WAAAAY too many traditions from our sport. I think it needs to stay, for everyone. Learn to do it if you must, I did, but braiding belongs on hunters. Where do I pick up my award for most run on sentences in one post???? |
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| 2hsmommy | Jul 18 2007, 12:24 PM Post #11 |
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It'll be an adventure! We're going on an adventure!
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Lauriep, that is one damn fine post.
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| Silver Bells | Jul 18 2007, 12:37 PM Post #12 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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Thank-you lauriep, and I agree the HBJ's original post was an "unfortunate example", and I can appreciate you attempting to take this in a more general direction, but it may be too late for "back peddling" where the OP is concerned. What's done is done... That being said, I totally agree about HB rules being ambiguous and vague. And if they change "trotting to jogging".... well that's just absurd. I will do anything I can to lobby against this. I am just hearing about this for the first time and I think the trot is VERY important. |
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| CanadianStarz | Jul 18 2007, 12:38 PM Post #13 |
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Magical Leopluridon
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We run shows off our Farm: IMO Braiding should be "optional"..... I do have problem with why there would be a NO BRAID RULE in effect, "especially for Hunter" . If the show is taking place on our Farm, the Judge IMO should NOT be appointed by myself, if I am also showing, as is any member of my Family. I truly think that type of thing is a BIGGIE "CONFLICT OF INTEREST !!
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| headlesshorseman | Jul 18 2007, 01:25 PM Post #14 |
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You're BANNED!
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Wow, I guess I need to get a video or DVD on braiding Does anyone have any suggestions!?!??!?! HH
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| BHILL | Jul 18 2007, 02:58 PM Post #15 |
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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Well unfortuntely now I truly know the meaning of no good deed goes unpunished. To clear up any confusion it is not uncommon in Florida for a rated horseshow to have a theme so to speak. It is going on right now in Venice where they show for 3 weeks with a theme. Crazy ones like scooby doo day, people showing with lingerie on their heads, color wars. There is no braiding there. We planned the July 20 show as a no braiding show as well to reach out to local breeders that do only schooling shows with their babies. Many breeders can't spend $80 per horse to get them braided. I am on the board of the Florida Pony Breeders Assoc and I hear it all the time. So we thought it woud be a nice twist to have a hats off for summer idea. Let the exhibitors be able to sleep in a bit. We are having a complimentary summer brunch with a picnic theme. This was in no way to cause such a controversy. Just something positive to reach out to the other breeders in the state. As far as hiring judges HBJ I have nothing to do with hiring them. I hire out for someone to take care of that for me. I don't pick them. You are critisizing something You don't know about. With all due respect, I don't need to pull strings to win. Check your facts. I was 3rd & 4th at my show and 3rd out of 3 with our young colt. Right where I should have been since he was so much more immature than the 2 others. Phil Devita and Anne Pennington are highly respected and fair. They don't play that game. It is so hard to put something like this together. Not a dime is made once everything is paid. We said no braiding to have it be fair to everyone. No matter what a braided one standing next to one that isn't is going to stand out. As to the other remarks about me I am not even going to justfy them hbj. Our intent was to do something nice, positive and to reach out?
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four or five horses in your barn against themselves. All of this point chasing is stupid if you not ever competing against anyone. OOOOOHHHH I miss VA where the good horseman live. Please some of you who know what your doing help me with some if these issues. I have already gone to the USEF to try and figure out a plan to fix the VERY OPEN rules.




AND Yes I happen to love Escapade and even own one of his offspring.... Yes I have been encouraging Alicia to have shows, clinics etc... I would do the same for any other breeder I believed in!
Is there a way to work this out and get all the other HB enthusiasts involved and be objective? I would be glad to help any way I can since ALL parties involved could do so much more working together.
.... HBJ Sorry you feel that way. I am not sure you and I are reading the same thing. You have finally and officially lost me.... I just wish you were not so extreme. I feel for you and your frustration as well.




Our intent was to do something nice, positive and to reach out?

12:21 PM Jul 11