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An update on the "difficult" horse
Topic Started: May 6 2007, 09:54 AM (1,074 Views)
OakesBrae
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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Oh, and wrt the tantrums, no, there really is no warning. You're trotting along just fine and whabam, a tantrum. But like I said, in canter, he hopped up a little in front and sort of changed his lead behind, but I was able to keep him cantering. Weird, eh?
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vxf111
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I would also think the desire to canter right off might indicate some pain in the back, in addition to maybe indicating stifle/hock?!

I only rearer I have seen fixed was very scary, but it was nipped in the bud FAST but a professional rider who was just DANGIT impossible to get off, not a bid frightened, and was willing to go toe to toe with this giant unruly WB horse and be the winner. It wasn't pretty but it worked.

And when I say "not pretty" remember I did some time in the "breed show" world so I saw a lot of rough stuff, and this was VERY rough but it was what the horse needed because for the first time I learned someone else was tougher than he was.
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OakesBrae
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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Yea, now I'm wondering about his back end. The fact that cantering for a little while before moving to trot worked seems to me to be physical in nature. He was very good and very happy with the work after that.

Of course, the darned horse has already been checked head-toe, but perhaps it's just a matter of muscle or lack thereof that is causing the issue. He did have an injury in front that made him on stall rest for a year, so it could be just that he is so weak that he needs muscled up before he can comfortably start out in trot. Or else he is just that way and needs loosened up first. Either way, that I can deal with and start another investigation with the vet.
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vxf111
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Does he ever have these episodes when he's being lunged or ground driven?

I wonder if there's something painful about the saddle or weight of the rider that he can mostly solider through but sometimes he just has to object.

Although, to be honest, it doesn't SOUND that way because it sounds like often the tantrum comes as a result to outside stimulus (the ingate, other horses leaving etc.) Also, I would think a horse whose hind end hurt would buck or kick out rather than rear and place more weight on the painful part of the anatomy. When Shane was hurting and I didn't know it, he didn't want to go forward but it was always bucking or kicking out rather than rearing.

It's perplexing!
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OakesBrae
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He has been ridden in multiple different saddles and has done this with riders from air ferns to...well, those of us who are less air ferny ;-)

The fact that he prefers to canter is odd to me, because he didn't throw the tantrum when cantering (at least not much). Now, today there were no other horses in the ring, but he has thrown his temper tantrums when alone as well.

I need to try this with other horses in the ring. Tomorrow night will be the experiment (the barn is always rather quiet during the day).
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Heart River
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This just makes me so queasy -- I leased a horse that had been donated to the college program - huge,WB, beautiful mover, tons of training and talent - who just had weird brain farts at random. He'd see something and freak. My turn resulted in four broken ribs and a collapsed lung. Eventually, he settled down and became a very reliable ride, but it was clear that he'd been donated to the college because he just went postal without warning.
I'm not saying you can't work through this horse's issues, but it makes me worry about you. Broken bones hurt, and the fear they instill lasts a long time.
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OakesBrae
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Oh Heart River I do so appreciate your concern. Honestly :)

This horse's episode happens randomly, yes, but within the first 3 or so minutes of the ride. Seems to happen once, and then it's over. I'm still trying to figure out whether it's psychological or physiological in nature.

I'm going to continue on with the cantering first approach, and see if it continues to get better. Yesterday was a very good indication that it may. If so, it could just be tension in his back/back end somewhere and posting trot (or trot at all) is "too hard" until he is adequately warmed up under saddle. Sort of his version of cold backed (although every cold backed horse I've ever had in the past bucked instead of this rear/stomp thing - but who knows, he is an odd one).

What's very funny is that I'm starting to feel more confident about it. I've been re-riding long enough that I think I'm getting my riding legs back! Hooray! This would be the first time in 3 years that that sort of antic doesn't unseat me or make me nervous. Annoyed, yes, but not that gripping fear that I used to get when my mare would spook. Of course, riding 2 horses a day like I've been doing the last few weeks definitely helps (oh yea, and advil...lots and lots of advil).

On another note, he's just the sweetest guy on the ground. His favorite thing is to have his tongue petted. Literally, he will flop his tongue out at you and you MUST rub it. Then his eyes glaze over and he almost falls asleep. *laughing* Weird horse!
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SnackPack
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OakesBrae
May 8 2007, 02:27 AM
Sort of his version of cold backed (although every cold backed horse I've ever had in the past bucked instead of this rear/stomp thing - but who knows, he is an odd one).

I've known a cold-backed horse who reared. Also known ones that bucked, pranced, stood stock still (he is the easiest to deal with :lol: )

The tantrums always come in the first few minutes of a ride? Sounds like cold backed or testing the waters to me. Whatever it is, be careful.
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OakesBrae
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Yep, they are always within the first few minutes. Literally, I get on after longeing, walk a little, first upward transition to trot, 4 or 5 strides and then boom, rearstompthing. Funny thing was, when I did it in canter (skipping trot), he still tried a little bit in the same exact spot as he had done it before in trot - kind of an interesting thing. Could be physiologically driven, but then psychologically cemented (I'm guessing).

Like

Horsie gets ridden, balks and rears once because it hurts, someone decided to get off instead of working him through it, Horsie now goes "ah ha, if I just do this they will get off".

Oh horses....why can't they just talk. It would make things so much freaking simpler.
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OnyxThePony
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I hope it's going well!!
Here's yet another random tidbit of unasked-for advice.. :rolleyes: sorry.. can't help meself... :bigwhoop:
But... has anyone checked his back for alignment?? Just over his loins?? So easy to feel for.. just press your thumb and forefinger pretty hard into his spine, just on the side of the processes (NOT on the muscle an inch or more below- like right beside the gullet his spine makes) and run down the spine. Also ignore his flinching (for THIS test). Feel any hard lumps as you go?? Like a knot or a raised or hard spot? Easiest to feelw iththe thumb for some reason...
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OakesBrae
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Hey advice is always welcome!

Well, today was an interesting ride. Got him out, longed him, he seemed dead. Got on, and he didn't pull his ordinary "don't mount" crap. So, I arranged myself and started in canter. As we came down the long side where he can see the pastures (the ring is sort of on a hill) blammo, even in canter we had the rearbucktantrum thing. Well, I sort of got pissed, which I usually don't, and decided that THIS was completely uncalled for. I got him going forward again, then hopped off, longed the piss out of him, and got back on and went FORWARD. If he so much as flicked an ear as if he weren't paying attention we pressed on and forward and I growled at him.

Okay, so it wasn't the prettiest ride, but he tried to have the same tantrum twice in the same spot and even the third time where I whalloped him with my legs and made him gallop on.

So. Now it does seem to me to be behavioral. I'm trying to decide whether I'm brave (or stupid) enough to either wear spurs or carry a stick and whallop him the minute he pops up. I'm thinking I need double xanax plus some alcohol for this one (I'm kidding, don't worry...well...only half kidding).

He's not throwing me around as much, so I'm thinking I can stick it, but we'll see how brave I feel tomorrow. I really think he just needs to be told that I don't give a rats patootie HOW he feels about when his buddies are turned out, work is work and what he is doing is bogus.

Wish me luck. Oh, and don't worry, I will have someone with me with 911 on speed dial.
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vxf111
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Has this horse ever gone to a pro who is in the business of fixing rearers? I know they're out there. If he's nice enough and worth it to you, maybe that's the way to go??
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OakesBrae
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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He has been to "pros" before. I'm going to try this route before I send him off, but I do have a local name to use if he persists. It's not really a rear so much as a lift up and stomp, and I think there would be a buck there too if I weren't keeping his head up.

Wish me luck. I'm doing it today.
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BABYGREENTB
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maybe carry a dressage whip so you don't have to take a hand off the reins to use it? i used to ride a horse with a wicked buck who hated to go forward...had to carry the dressage whip so i could still get after him and keep his head up.

please be careful! you obviously love this horse, but sometimes there are mental holes that are not fixable. doesn't sound like this one is in pain, just kind of a snot whose bad behavior has been reinforced over the years because he scares people in to giving up.
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vxf111
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Rearing seem to be all around me lately. My wonderful trainer had a horse go up and over on her at a dressage show recently. Luckily she was bruised and very sore but the horse didn't fall ON her and she was fine.

Then some OTHER trainer asked my trainer to rider her horse, since other trainer is in a halo right now from a horse that flipped on her.

Last night, during the trial of a sale horse, a little chestnut pony mini-reared twice on a smallish child.

Messy business rearing. I wish you the best of luck but please, please be careful.
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