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What do you do with your wild child?; how do you handle the "crazies?"
Topic Started: Jan 10 2007, 08:06 PM (997 Views)
nhwr
Schooling
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I used to have a horse that would get quick and curl BTV. I think with these types of horses you must maintain the contact. Otherwise they learn pretty quickly that they can avoid the contact by ducking behind.

In my experience, this is a strength and discomfort issue more than anything else. As they get stronger it goes away with just proper riding. But it can take awhile. I am not sure that the type of bit matters much, as long as it is a good fit and sits properly in their mouthes.

Just maintaining an appropriate contact (no matter where the horse chooses to put its head) and working on exercises that build strength is what is needed. Transitions between gaits, with in the gait, change of direction and requirements for engagement are all good things.
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Linny
I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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While I'm not exactly the right rider for the uber hot, behind the bit horse, I did see GM ride one a few years ago at a clinic. (I'm fine with one that likes the kick and pick method ;) :o )

This mare was hot and the rider was very good but she was fearful to apply leg. GM got on and rode her through many transitions gradually getting her to accept the bit and the leg. GM said that many hot horses never learn to be ridden off the leg (who's brave enough to try?) and get so sick of having their mouths hauled on that they learn to evade and get behind. If I remember right, each time she'd suck back off the bit, he'd transition down, followed by an immediate return to the original gait. Does this sound right?
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Sing Mia Song
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I'm from the Government and I'm here to help.
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Lord Helpus
Jan 22 2007, 10:23 AM
Black Tack
Jan 21 2007, 05:33 PM
Interesting.  With a nervous nelly type, I would stay away from lots of transitions and insisting on contact.  I would work at trot ALOT, stretching down into a light contact and figures, figures, figures.  Keep their minds busy and not knowing what's coming up next - circles, serpentines, figure 8s... until they relax into the work.

Black Tack, the problem is that you can't get contact.

Your way works with horses which lean on the bit and get srong, but not with horses which curl up into a ball.

KaliTude, I was actually thinking of putting him in a pelham. It seems so counter intuitive, just like the video. But a pelham makes a horse want to lean while the bottom rein makes the horse want to flex and curl and accept the bit.

I do the same thing with getting him to almost drop back to the walk -- because that is the only time I can add leg to get him moving back into a regular trot. So, for about 6 steps at a time I am able to lightly put leg on him. Even though he is not truly in fromt of my leg, at least it is a stqart to getting him to feeling my leg.

Which is, I guess, what the video was doing. Whatever it takes to get the horse to actually accept the bit, no matter how curled up the horse is. You cannot get a horse to accept your leg, and then get him in front of your leg, until you can push him up into your hand. And, to push him up into your hand, he has to accept the bit, even if his head is on his chest.

I might just do it. I have resisted a flash noseband because I think that anything that restricts this horse wll make him more nervous. Clamping his mouth shut may make the grinding of the teeth go away, but it will not help him mentally.

I need to deal with the cause of the teeth grinding, not the grinding itself.

Any other comments?

How long has he been doing the grinding? I presume, knowing you, LHU ;) that his teeth have been checked.

We have one that just came from the track and is still decompressing. He used to grind all the time. He's spent a lot of time on the longe line in loose side reins, and things have gotten much better. He came to us after having living on the Eurociser, trotting in one direction with his head tied high for 45 minutes a day. :soapbox: Even getting on him with someone holding his head was an adventure. We've been not really touching his mouth, except for a feel here and there, and just doing lots of serpentines and single rails at the walk.

He blew some bad hoof a couple weeks ago and has been on vacation, so we'll see what happens when I get on next. :psycho:
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KaliTude
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Linny
Jan 26 2007, 09:10 AM
This mare was hot and the rider was very good but she was fearful to apply leg. GM got on and rode her through many transitions gradually getting her to accept the bit and the leg. GM said that many hot horses never learn to be ridden off the leg (who's brave enough to try?) and get so sick of having their mouths hauled on that they learn to evade and get behind. If I remember right, each time she'd suck back off the bit, he'd transition down, followed by an immediate return to the original gait. Does this sound right?

That is exactly what Pippa Funnell was doing in her training video. Not for the faint of heart as IMO when a horse starts evading both leg and hand by sucking back it takes a strong leg and hand and seat and a lot of guts to get them back. Once the horse was truely in front of the leg though, she was able to soften and even ask for some slight extension.
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barngirl
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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Not to sound stupid, but why won't they let you turnout the mare if she is bodyclipped and blanketed? i could see if she wa not blankted, but what is the problem?
As for my guy when he is silly i try to just canter him... even hand gallop... I might try to trot him a few times around, but sometimes he just need to gallop. I was at a barn that was really crowded so I would wait ( in the winter) until Sunday evening and when everyone was gone, turn him loose in the indoor. Sometimes my friend would throw her horse in and boy would they have fun. I think in the winter, even with turn out, the smart ones don't run and play due to the gournd conditions... at least in the frozen parts of the country. So I try to give him at least one day a week in the winter where he can kick up his heels and have fun. he really likes to roll, and sometimes just taking off his blanket and rolling makes him happy. He will actually roll while on a lead shank.. actually comes in handy at horse shows, as he won't roll in the stall. He is also on aB-1crumbles... seems to calm his nerves... I know they don't help everyone, but they are so cheap and I definately notice he is much more jumping if I run out.

Good luck!!!
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hijumpin1
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Hmmm....full chaps and draw reins are January staples! At least it makes me feel more secure!! I use a quarter sheet on my clipped horse, with the theory that a warm back will eliminate some of the cold weather exuberance. Just watch you don't get a gust of wind up under it!
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Renn/aissance
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Fuzzy was always HYPERHYPERHYPER in the winter. Finally I asked the farrier to drill stud holes, put in the appropriate studs, and took him for a gallop on the best footing I could find. He loved it, and after he got the edge off, he was glad to come in and work for a living.

I do the same thing with Tip in the rare instances that he gets hyper. OK, you want to gallop? I stick my stirrups up another two holes, bridge my reins, and let him gallop. Uphill. Once he gets it out of his system, the flatwork is incredible because he has gotten his motor running.
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Black Tack
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Lord Helpus
Jan 22 2007, 10:23 AM
Black Tack
Jan 21 2007, 05:33 PM
Interesting.  With a nervous nelly type, I would stay away from lots of transitions and insisting on contact.  I would work at trot ALOT, stretching down into a light contact and figures, figures, figures.  Keep their minds busy and not knowing what's coming up next - circles, serpentines, figure 8s... until they relax into the work.

Black Tack, the problem is that you can't get contact.

Your way works with horses which lean on the bit and get srong, but not with horses which curl up into a ball.

Actually I find my way does work with horses that curl up, but I have been trying to figure out how it differs from what you are talking about. I only ride with contact. The amount differs depending on the objective and the situation, but I always have contact. I also always ride with my leg on. Again, the amount differs, but I have found that even with very worried, nervous horses, taking your leg off will only make things worse. Then it becomes far too much of a hand ride and they get more tense. My sense is that they get confidence from a quiet steady leg.

However, I wouldn't say it would be a "strong" leg or "strong" seat (actually very little seat probably to start), however still a connection between leg to hand until we found a reasonable rhythm and I could start on suppling exercises. Personally with a horse like this I would not be working on trying to get it reactive and in front of my leg at all times. I think there's lots of time for that later, once the relaxation, and rhythm has been established.

Anyway, just saying what I have found to work for me. Maybe I just don't explain it well. :teehee:
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Linny
I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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KaliTude
Jan 26 2007, 03:04 PM
Linny
Jan 26 2007, 09:10 AM
This mare was hot and the rider was very good but she was fearful to apply leg.  GM got on and rode her through many transitions gradually getting her to accept the bit and the leg.  GM said that many hot horses never learn to be ridden off the leg (who's brave enough to try?) and get so sick of having their mouths hauled on that they learn to evade and get behind.  If I remember right, each time she'd suck back off the bit, he'd transition down, followed by an immediate return to the original gait.  Does this sound right?

That is exactly what Pippa Funnell was doing in her training video. Not for the faint of heart as IMO when a horse starts evading both leg and hand by sucking back it takes a strong leg and hand and seat and a lot of guts to get them back. Once the horse was truely in front of the leg though, she was able to soften and even ask for some slight extension.

I went back and found the notes I wrote that day and to my surprise, I was right. GM talked as he rode and mentioned that this was not for the chicken hearted as applying the leg (or laig, as GM says) to a hot horse can get crazy results.
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