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Feeding the Laminitic Horse
Topic Started: Jan 7 2007, 01:39 PM (580 Views)
Lord Helpus
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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I am new to this. I am new to the whole world of severe laminitis and sinking founder (stinking flounder as Willem called it :( ) I am very lucky to have been in the horse world for this long without learning all this stuff.

I have talked to my vet about feed and I am on a steep learning curve -- so the more information on different feeding protocols I can find out, the better caretaker I will become.


Anyone with input?
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ponymom64
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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I would love to hear about this, too. I would imagine, just off the top of my head, that staying away from high carb grains and rich hays but I'm sure there is a specific program. I wonder though, if there is a different protocol for a young, growing horse and for a mature one?
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chai
Weanling
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Lord Helpus, I'm sorry you are dealing with this heartbreaking illness. I hope it is just a mild case, but I can tell you from experience that even severe cases can make a comeback, as our pony did. Three years ago, she was at a boarding barn when someone turned her out on green grass after 2 months on a diet with only dirt turnout and she foundered badly. I've had horses for over 30 years and this was the first time I dealt with Laminitis...it was a steep learning curve for me, too.
The most important thing is to find the root cause: feed overload or toxicity? Insulin Resistance, Cushing's, Mechanical? Then go right to the source of the problem to start helping your pony heal.
While our pony was in the midst of the intial founder, we had good results with rectal exam sleeves filled with crushed ice on her feet, bute/banamine and isoxuprine. We had good luck with Sigafoos glue on shoes which the farrier (reillyshoe on COTH) could adjust to help her find comfort without adding trauma to her feet. Thick bedding, lots of tlc so she knew we weren't giving up and Reiki for pain management as well.
If it's diet or cushing's related, it's important to get to the root. If it's Cushing's, Pergolide will help, but it all comes back to diet. Try to eliminate as much sugar/starch from the diet: no carrots/apples/grass. We feed Triple Crown Lite and have our hay tested at Dairy One so we can feed the load with the least amount of sugars and starches to our pony. I soak all of our pony's hay to get rid of as much sugar/starch as possible, and I have worked with an Equine Nutritionist to get a good handle on Delilah's diet. I also give her Metaboleeze and Thyro L.
Hope that helps. As long as your pony is willing to fight the good fight, hang in there. I wish you all the best.
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Jessi P
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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Awww Pam I am sorry to hear this - I had no idea. My thoughts are with you. Thinking good thoughts for your sickly one. :luck: :luck: :luck:
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Coreene
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Schooling
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Lord Helpus
Jan 7 2007, 12:39 PM
I am new to this. I am new to the whole world of severe laminitis and sinking founder (stinking flounder as Willem called it :( ) I am very lucky to have been in the horse world for this long without learning all this stuff.

I have talked to my vet about feed and I am on a steep learning curve -- so the more information on different feeding protocols I can find out, the better caretaker I will become.


Anyone with input?

You never send me your telephone number so that I could call you after your email about it. Check out the Yahoo Cushing's group and have a peek at the emergency diet. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/ Chai sadly is going throug a long haul as well, and all the stuff in her post is perfect.

Pam, I am sorry that it turned into a sinker. But I always share the story of my friend's gelding Monty. He sank at age three to just a few mm from penetrating (it was very swift and then arrested very quickly as well). Because of his age and his good luck, he grew back new hoof very quickly, is now 20 or so and never took a lame step again. Hope that is the same for your guy as well.

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chai
Weanling
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Coreene, you were such a source of inspiration to me when I was in the middle of our laminitis nightmare. I hope you know how much I appreciated all of your advice, commiseration and kindness.
Lord Helpus, I hope your pony is hanging in there. Please keep us up to date on his progress.
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Lord Helpus
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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Correene,

I didn't call back because my mother told me that the insurance company had approved the claim and that he had been destroyed.

I was too upset and I figured that it didn't matter anyway.

Turns out mother's information was wrong -- Sherman was still with us and the insurance company finally denied the claim after another venogram.

So, after a trip to Scott Morrison at Rood and Riddle, where Shermy was fitted with his very own Sigafoos Series II shoes, he withstood the 10+ hour trip to Southern Pines just fine. After 10 days in the round pen, he was (with the help of some Fluphenozine) transitioned to his 1 acre paddock and he was a happy camper.

Until Christmas eve (when I was in Florida with my Mom) and The Shermanator abscessed badly.

We have made it through that (it's been rough on us all) and are now in a 2 week 'holding pattern' -- making sure that the laminae are stabilized, before doing anything to upset the status quo, like reshoeing him.

Pictures of Sherman and an x-ray of his hoof are on the Buddies thread (P 7, I believe) on The Hayloft. You will recognize my post -- All 5 horses have pictures on it. :)

Sherman got laminitis on the rt front because of a series of abscesses on the left front. So, it was an opposite limb laminitis. It progressed to founder, sinking and rotating.

Scott Morrison said that he thinks Shermy can make a full recovery. However, after the abscess episode, I am not so sure I can live through the next 9 months...

I will join the Yahoo group. Thanks Coreene, I had forgotten about that.

Sherman is on Nutrena Safe Choice, which around here is the only low sugar, low carb pellet I could find. If I was still in Lexington, I would have so much more choice. I feel like I am in exile. He was on alfalfa(!) when he was in Lexington (and in regular shoes -- no frog or sole support, no early breakover). ---I got the feeling that there was an unspoken agreement to not treat him so that he would get worse and then the insurance company would have to approve the claim. That thought so sickens me that I cannot deal with it. This poor little guy.

He is now on Coastal, which is the lowest form of hay known to man. It is usually used as a filler hay in h/j barns, if they use it at all. But many western barns feed it exclusively. So, Sherman is on it, with Accel (sp?) as his vitamin supplement.

I don't think I am way off course, but I feel like a blind man feeling his way in the dark -- so it will be good to go to Yahoo and check in.

Right now, the only laminitic connection he has in an inch at the top of the hoof, which is the new hoof that has grown since the onset of the laminitis. However, the growth is uniform and the vet and farrier think it looks like good hoof. All we need is another 6" of it. That shouldn't take too long, should it?

I'm telling Sherm that he will be at the track and winning races by next fall.......

Right.....

I do think that he has a decent chance to be a riding horse. He is not the big gorgeous type of TB, but he is a cute little bundle with an enormous rear end. He is built like a tank. (Hence the name "Sherman") He might make a wonderful Children's Hunter. If he does, I will be SO PROUD!!
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chai
Weanling
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Lord Helpus, you are doing such a nice thing for Sherm. We, too, went through the abcessation stage a few months after the initial laminitis. Things were complicated because three weeks into the recovery, a nasty barn manager inexplicably turned our pony out of stall rest into a paddock with a very aggressive mare who attacked and chased her all over the place. Then she stuck our pony back in the stall...no call to me, no call to the vet, no icing...in hindsight, I am sure it was intentional because she and I had been on the phone that morning so she knew how to reach me. But I digress....must get back to that happy place....

The abcessation stage was almost worse than the laminitis itself. Our pony had both sub-solar abcessation, abcesses that broke therough above the coronary band and one that came through the sulkus of the frog. We were within one day of just giving in because I couldn't stand to see her in such pain, but the next day a huge abcess broke through and it was all recovery from there on.
I'm sure you are doing a great job, but here's what worked for us. We soaked her hoof in a clean saline solution IV bag, which meant that she didn't have to stand in a bucket. Just cut the top off, add warm water and epsom salts and vetwrap it closed around the canon bone. I used both animalintex pads with a diaper over, duct tape 'boot' on the bottom and vet wrap around the whole thing. But the best results I had were with Sugardine, a paste of Betadine and sugar which worked extremely well as a poultice.
I really feel for you, Lord Helpus. But with any luck, if you can hang in there through the abcessation phase and keep the toe from growing up and out like a turkish slipper (a laminar horn, I think it's called ) with good shoeing, I pray your horse can make a comeback.
Good luck to you.
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Coreene
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Schooling
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Oh man, I am so sorry to hear that. I'll never forget, three days before we put Willem to sleep, unwrapping his feet to dicover A) the sinking and B) the holes that had popped in what used to be a coronary band, with black shit oozing out. I knew then that we were well and truly effed.

But Sherman has youth on his side, and I"ve never heard of it not being a benefit. He has youth, he has you, he has excellent healthcare and shoeing, and for the rest all you can do is cross your fingers and hope for the best. We all know it's a crapshoot - you can do all the latest stuff and they die anyway, and you can give 'em bute and the sumbitches come through just fine. Amazing.

Fingers crossed for Sheman! And for you, too, because it's such a shitty rollercoaster. Big hug.
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Lord Helpus
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I Visited Candy Mountain and All I Got Was This Lousy Incision
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Thanks again Correene. And Chai, I emailed your farrier -- Shamelessly namedropping (but never actually saying I knew you). I have sent him a history and a bunch of pictures. We'll see if he has time to write back.

Correene, I went to the Yahoo Groups link, but I didn't join because I only tangentially overlap with Cushings. I would rather join a laminitis/founder group over there.

But I cannot figure out how to access the Yahoo Groups. Which is really pathetic sine I am a member of at least 3 - 4... <_< .

Any help getting to a "search groups" page would be great.

Thanks again.

Hi Jessi -- Glad you are here. My farrier is "mentoring" (that's what he calls it) a farrier at Mtneer. He said the man is so successful that he is now shoeing horses for 10% of the purse money and trainers are happy to pay it because their horses are winning so much more now.

I have the man's name out in the barn -- It's a polish name. Evidently, people call him "The big polack".

Ring any bells?
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El Panto
Schooling
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LH, I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this. It sounds like you have a good start on information, and I wish you good luck with Sherman.

Hope I get to meet him at some point! (this is Allie from MD!)

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RHowell
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You're BANNED!
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Lord Helpus
Jan 7 2007, 12:39 PM
I am new to this. I am new to the whole world of severe laminitis and sinking founder (stinking flounder as Willem called it :( ) I am very lucky to have been in the horse world for this long without learning all this stuff.

I have talked to my vet about feed and I am on a steep learning curve -- so the more information on different feeding protocols I can find out, the better caretaker I will become.


Anyone with input?

I posted about it on the "what do you feed thread" but there's a forage called "Happy Hoof" that is designed for laminitic horses. I found out about it from Boleem's owner SID....he had a bad run of laminitis and it worked well for him. I've had good fortune with it too, but I don't have a laminitic horse--hucklebug is OLD as dirt and insulin resistant, so I have him on it as a preventative.
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Jessi P
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Shunnnnn the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
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Hey Pam - hoping the Sher-meister has had no setbacks or other negatives since you last posted on here. :luck: :luck:

"The big polack" doesnt ring any bells, but our blacksmith is Karl Meeks, who is mentoring a younger dude named Chris.............. something? :innocent: I will ask around about a blacksmith shoeing for 10% of purse money... for a win on "the bottom" that would be a $600 shoe job!! Imagine if he was doing that for a big allowance horse.... 10% of winners share of a 46k purse = $2,796. That is as much as the jock gets for riding the winning race... holy schmoley!

I am in the wrong end of this game... ;)
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Hoof Prince
Weanling
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Lord Helpus
Jan 10 2007, 08:04 PM

. . . but I didn't join because I only tangentially overlap with Cushings.  I would rather join a laminitis/founder group over there.
. . .




I'm not Coreene, but I have a horse who sank within 2mm of the sole (per x-rays) on both his front feet, he isn't Cushings, he is IR (BTW he's a year from the founder, and is doing well). The Cushings group caters to IR horses, as well as Cushings, and it is one of the best resources available, on feeding horses with metabolic problems of any kind. The founder list is stuck on keeping horses who have foundered bare foot, and while in many situations this might be a good thing, the information is limited to one particular sect of the barefoot movement.

A web site you might want to checkout is www.safergrass.org
The links page is also very useful.



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tutt
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Weanling
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I just read an excellent study of IR in Farnley ponies that had laminitis in Equus sometime last spring.
Read it at the blacksmith and don't recall month. Very long and detailed. Talked about the tests that can be done and had preventative tips.

It sounds like you already have good shoes.
My blacksmith, Paul Goodness, often uses heart pads on founder cases.
I have an old connemara QH cross that belongs to someone else. Didn't know he was prone to founder, but he did last March.
I've had good luck with Boa Boots and putting the heart pads inside. The heart portion is turned towards the foot, so it supports the frog. Paul Goodness agreed with my method. We couldn't shoe him because it was too painful.

He also gets that expensive LaminaSaver, which seems to help.
Right now, he's barefoot and on one Bute a day. Except when the ground is really frozen, he's galloping around and bucking.
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