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2014 Olympic hockey; men & women
Topic Started: Jan 2 2014, 12:35 AM (1,934 Views)
americafutbol10
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Have an interesting question...who are the best 5 hockey players of all-time, for each country, in terms of international & NHL success? I'll go with my top 5 USA-born players, in no order:

Goalie - Mike Richter

Defensemen - Brian Leetch & Chris Chelios

Left Wing - Keith Tkachuk

Center - Mike Modano

Right Wing - Brett Hull



Honorable mention: Ryan Miller, Phil Housely, Rod Langway, Joe Mullen, Jeremy Roenick & Pat Lafontaine B)
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hobbes
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I can’t really argue your American choices at all. I wasn’t sure about Tkachuk, but the more I thought about it, he has to be there for his World Cup play alone.

I don’t know how far you’re leaning on club play, but Jim Craig maybe deserves honourable mention for 80. But I’m quibbling.

Canada isn’t too hard I figure. I’m going to leave out some legends because they never really played internationally, but G: Martin Brodeur; D: Paul Coffey, Bobby Orr;
LW: Paul Henderson, C: Wayne Gretzky RW: Mario Lemieux (he played right wing in the 87 Canada Cup, so he gets that spot here...)

Honourable mention:
G: Ken Dryden
D: Larry Robinson, Al MacInnis
LW: John Tonelli or Harry Watson, C: Joe Sakic, RW: Jarome Iginla

Russia/Soviets isn’t too hard either: G: Valdislav Tretiak;
D: Viatcheslav Fetisov, Alexei Kasatonov,
LW: Valeri Kharlamov, C: Igor Larionov, RW: Sergei Makarov

Honourable mention: G: Nikolai Khabibulin (?, they haven’t really had much quality in net, have they?)
D: Valeri Vasiliev, Alexander Ragulin.
LW: Vladirmir Krutov, C: Sergei Fedorov, RW: Alexander Maltsev

cheers,
hobbes
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americafutbol10
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Great choices, hobbes.

Yeah, Jim Craig was amazing in 1980 but his NHL career never equaled that success. He was a good goalie but his "claim to fame" was ONE tournament...albeit, the Olympics!

Did Mike Bossy or Luc Robitaille ever play for Canada? Just curious....


Getting back to the Sochi Games, the Russians might be favored...home ice & all...but their defense is very weak, even with Slava Voynov :P , and just don't see them winning gold. I do think they will win bronze but, to win gold, Ovechkin would have to play out of his mind & the goaltending would have to be outstanding IMO.

Definitely, think it's a USA-Canada battle...but not counting out Sweden, Finland or Czech Republic.
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hobbes
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It depends how much you weigh international competition I guess. Craig did nothing in the NHL, but no one has ever played better internationally over a short span in goal than he did. Richter has his high points for club and country, so he’s a great choice.

Bossy and Robitaille both played for Canada. Robitaille probably deserved some honourable mention consideration too for his NHL career. But he had a really mediocre 91 Canada Cup and only played at one world championship.

Bossy was great at the 81 Canada Cup and very good in 84. Iginla won two world juniors, played in three Olympics and was maybe the best player in Salt Lake. He was certainly in the conversation. Bossy had 13 goals and 20 points in 15 Canada Cup games.

I don’t mind the Russian defence that much. I think people under-rate the KHLers a little. Certainly it’s their weakness, but I think they can overcome it. I think the Swedes and the Finns have as good of a shot as the North Americans. I don’t like the Czechs chances at all. In fact I think the Slovaks have a better shot than the Czechs of advancing to the semis, but it will depend on Budaj.

The team no one talks about that is my darkhorse to reach the semis is the Swiss. I think they’re better than the Czechs or Slovaks and have been on a good run recently.

In their last eight group games at the Olympics they’ve lost in regulation time twice. They went 9-1 at the world championships last year. The worlds aren’t the be-all, end-all, but I think this team will have a quite confidence, their top-four D is surprisingly talented and their goalie is world class.

The games are really starting to get close. :)

cheers,
hobbes


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shelsoccer
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Hobbes, has there been any fear in Canada about the security situation in Sochi? Several American Olympians are asking their families to stay away.
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hobbes
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Yeah I think so. People are a little apprehensive, but the main thought seems to be that if you really wanted to stage something major you wouldn't talk about it before doing it. If you want to scare people and put them on edge, then you make a lot of idle threats...

There's an incredible amount at stake here and I'm sure Russia isn't afraid to crack down pretty hard to keep up appearances. I am leaning towards everything going smoothly, but I would be nervous if I were heading over.

I'm supposed to be calling an Olympian in a few days. I'll ask what he thinks. He doesn't compete until the end of the Games, so I have no idea what his schedule even is. He might not even get to Sochi until it's almost over.

cheers,
hobbes
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shelsoccer
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I tend to agree, Hobbes. Having been in Russia, even the Soviet Union (albeit during the glasnost period), I know that Russian security can lock down. My guess is that Sochi will be sealed tight. If the Islamists want to make a statement beyond just threats, my guess is that they'll make it elsewhere in Russia.
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raconteur
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One Tampa Bay Lightning player for another, Canada picks Martin St. Louis to replace injured Steven Stamkos, probably a move which will help Canada as Stamkos has been out injured since November and therefore is less game sharp than St. Louis.
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americafutbol10
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Great decision by Canada...including Martin St. Louis! He should've been included the first time :rolleyes:

Not sure how many are interested in the women's tournament but it starts on Saturday, so thought I would include it in the thread:

Group A - USA, Canada, Finland, Switzerland

Group B - Sweden, Russia, Japan, Germany


Saturday: USA-Finland, Canada-Switzerland

Sunday: Sweden-Russia, Japan-Germany



The format is quite different from the men's tournament and, far too convoluted, to try to explain. Should be USA-Canada for the gold medal but should be interesting to see if the gap in women's hockey is closing...even, a little bit.
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hobbes
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Canada is going to miss Stamkos. That's a big blow. St. Louis may help fill that void, though it's possible he starts the tournament in the press box. Personally I still would have taken Claud Giroux first. Though I had both on my roster.

Sweden will be without Henrik Sedin and the Slovaks lost Marian Gaborik. Sedin is a huge, huge loss. I think Gaborik is a really big loss even if he isn't really scoring. I felt he might be the kind of guy who looks like one of the best players in the world for two weeks while everyone wondered where he had disappeared to for two seasons….

Mikael Backlund from Calgary is in for Henrik and former Coyote Branko Radivojevic will take Gaborik's spot.

Finn Mikko Koivu is also looking likely to miss the tournament.

I've got a Russia-Finland final with Canada and the US playing for bronze. I have Russia winning the gold. It's so hard to predict given the format. For example I had one goal for separating three teams and that made a huge difference in the QF match-ups. My dark horse is Switzerland. I think Sweden can medal, but I really think this is pretty narrow field this time around. I think the Slovaks and Swiss have a chance to spring a QF upset, more than the Czechs, but it's going to depend on who they play.

This is really an eight-team tournament and I expected all of the QFs to be pretty good unless Russia blitzes the Czechs (or if the Slovaks and Swiss have bad goaltending in an elimination game I can see the roof falling in on them).

I was really surprised by how well the lesser teams did four years ago and I expect Norway and Latvia to be competitive, but I'm not as optimistic for Slovenia this time around. Though Belarus really surprised me in Vancouver, so I guess we'll see.

I hate to say it, but I don't pay attention to the women's games unless it's Canada-US. I knew three of the Slovak women's team in Vancouver, so I watched them play a couple of times they were on TV, but other than that it's pretty painful. Hopefully the gap is closing.


cheers,
hobbes
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americafutbol10
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Thanks for all the updates on player additions & omissions, hobbes. Good point about Giroux, who's been playing amazing but, still, feel St. Louis was the right choice to replace Stamkos.

Sweden will miss Sedin...then again, I'm not a fan of the Sedins, just like Crosby :P

Russia's defense is too much of a question mark IMO, for them to win the gold...unless, Bobrovsky plays out of his mind.

My prediction: Jonathan Quick will be starting GK for USA & have, as good, if not better, tournament than Ryan Miller in Vancouver in 2010.

Gold - USA
Silver - Canada
Bronze - Sweden



FWIW, for the women's tournament: Gold - USA, Silver - Canada, Bronze - Finland!
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hobbes
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The Finns lost Valtteri Filppula today too. So he and Mikko Koivu are out. Big loss for the Finns as well. I don't think they can afford to loose too much offence. This may really dent their medal hopes...

AF10: I think you're under-rating the KHL. Plus the KHL has been off for nine days already. Emelin has been a little up-and-down, but gives them some physicality. Voynov, Markov and Tyutin are solid. I really like Ilya Nikulin from Ak Bars and he and Medvedev are both big and can skate. It's not a great defence, but it's not awful.

I think Henrik is the better Sedin and they're already pretty thin for high-end talent (at least compared to their recent past). He's a big loss.

cheers,
hobbes



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americafutbol10
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FWIW, here's my USA men's hockey team, by lines:

GK - Quick, Miller, Howard, Bishop (reserve)

D - Martin/Suter, Orpik/Shattenkirk, Carlson/McDonagh: Fowler, Faulk

1st Line - LW Parise...C Pavelski...RW Kane

2nd Line - LW Van Riemsdyk...C Kesler...RW Kessel

3rd Line - LW Pacioretty...C Stastny...RW Callahan

4th Line - LW Brown...C Backes...RW Oshie

F - Stepan, Wheeler



We'll see how right on or way off I am :lol:
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hobbes
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I'll bite. :)

I've got Quick starting.

D: Martin/Suter; Faulk/McDonagh; Orpik/Shattenkirk; Fowler and Carlson.

Lines: R-C-L
1: Kane-Kesler-Parisé
2: Kessel-Stastny-vanRiemsdyk
3: Pavelski-Backes-Brown
4: Oshie-Callahan-Pacioretty

Wheeler and Stepan.

We're pretty close I think and I don't think there will be too many shocks. The top-six is pretty set.

I'm curious if they keep Orpik and Martin together. Instant chemistry, but I think they can get better pairings. But they may at least start the games together.

cheers,
hobbes
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americafutbol10
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Final scores from 1st day of women's tournament:

USA 3-1 Finland

Canada 5-0 Switzerland


No surprises, of course...though, the Finnish & Swiss goalies were outstanding & kept the scorelines from being MUCH worse!
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