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| All Time US Best XI | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 21 2013, 02:32 PM (415 Views) | |
| raconteur | Dec 21 2013, 02:32 PM Post #1 |
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The USSF on Friday unveiled its All-Time Best XI as voted by historians, media, administrators, coaches and players, with every selection starting his career in 1988 or later. Landon Donovan (52 votes), Claudio Reyna (45) and Brian McBride (45) topped the polling, with Eric Wynalda (43), Tab Ramos (42), Marcelo Balboa (35) and Eddie Pope (33) not far behind. Here is the full list: GK Brad Friedel (1992-2004) D Steve Cherundolo (1999-2012) D Eddie Pope (1996-2006) D Marcelo Balboa (1988-2000) D Carlos Bocanegra (2001-2012) M Landon Donovan (2000-present) M Claudio Reyna (1994-2006) M Tab Ramos (1988-2000) M Clint Dempsey (2004-present) F Eric Wynalda (1990-2000) F Brian McBride (1993-2006) Friedel, Bocanegra, Cherundolo and Dempsey received 25 votes apiece to round out the squad. The top runners-up at each position were goalkeeper Kasey Keller (14 votes), defender Thomas Dooley (20), midfielder Michael Bradley (20) and forward Earnie Stewart (16). And some other writers' versions: The guys at si.com; Goal.com's Ives Galarcep's take. Anyway this seems like a good topic during the slow holiday period, so here would be my US Best XI: GK-Keller RB-Caligiuri CB-Pope CB-Dooley LB- Bocanegra MF-O'Brien MF-Reyna MF-Donovan MF-Stewart FW-Dempsey FW-Wynalda I think O'Brien, although brief, had a great national team career and was very good for Ajax too. Tom Dooley is another player who I think was overlooked, just solid either at defensive midfield or centerback. And Earnie Stewart also had an excellent career and was much more productive than Tab Ramos. Anyway this should be a good topic for debate. |
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| shelsoccer | Dec 21 2013, 04:58 PM Post #2 |
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I, too, think Caligiuri belongs, though at left back where he played most of his national team career. I'd move Boca to centerback ahead of Balboa. I don't have any objections with the rest of the USSF's all-time XI. |
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| Sammy Maudlin | Dec 21 2013, 07:17 PM Post #3 |
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Just so I gte this straight shel you are saying you would use the USSF Best XI but add Caligiuri at left back and drop Balboa at centerback? My team: GK-Friedel RB-Cherundolo CB-Pope CB-Lalas LB-Caligiuri DMF-Dooley MF-Reyna MF-Donovan MF-Stewart FW-Wynalda FW-McBride hard to leave players like Dempsey and Ramos out but that would mean dropping one of Wynalda or McBride for Dempsey and frankly I am not prepared to do that. And to make room for Ramos, would mean leaving either Donovan (unthinkable) or Stewart off. I prefer Earnie. I am surprised Lalas has not gotten more notice from others. I prefer him as a centerback to both Bocanegra and Balboa. And Friedel edges Keller and Howard in goal. |
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| shelsoccer | Dec 21 2013, 08:18 PM Post #4 |
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That's right, Sammy -- Caligiuiri at left back and Boca in the middle instead of Balboa. If I'm going to vote for a pure defensive midfielder, I'd include Dooley, but Reyna is close enough as I'd still want to include Donovan, Dempsey and Ramos in my midfield. I was a big Stewart fan, but I wouldn't put him ahead of Ramos in midfield, particularly when Stewart was at his best as a forward for the US. It is a tough choice between Keller and Friedel. I could argue either way, but I think Friedel's performance in S. Korea puts him slightly ahead. My second team would include Keller in goal; Balboa and Lalas at center back; Dooley, Jones, Bradley and Harkes in midfield, and Stewart up front. I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a left and right back and another forward. At those positions, you're probably down to guys like Desmond Armstrong, Fernando Clavijo, Tony Sanneh (more of a centerback, however), Eddie Johnson, Peter Vermes, Bruce Murray and Jozy Altidore. I understand the USSF's logic about starting from 1988, but it's seems something of a shame not to include players from earlier eras. I don't think there's anyone on this board that can speak to the likes of Patenaude, Goncalves or Gaetjens. I am old enough to remember NASL products like Willy Roy, Pat McBride, Al Trost, Ricky Davis, Bobby Smith and Angelo DiBernardo, but the US national team was terrible in their day. |
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| Martin | Dec 21 2013, 08:27 PM Post #5 |
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What was the criteria used in selecting this best XI, was it play just for the national team? Or was it the players efforts throughout their entire career, with both club and country? I ask because I think it makes a difference on who I would select. As an example I think few US players had a club career to match that of Thomas Dooley, a Bundesliga title winner while with Kaiserslautern and a UEFA Cup winner at Schalke not to mention a pretty good end of his career with Columbus in MLS. Tab Ramos on the other hand I thought had a pretty mediocre club career, especially for a player of his skill. Yes he had the misfortune of being in his prime in the pre MLS days but unlike say Wynalda, Harkes or Caligiuri who carved out pretty good club careers in Europe in those days, Ramos bounced around a lot of European 2nd divisions before having one and a half good years with Tigres in Mexico before joining MLS. Injuries then effected him in MLS and I think it is safe to say of all the players being mentioned here as US Best XI candidates who did play in MLS, Ramos probably had the least effective MLS career. So if we are looking at the players club and national team career I would not consider putting Tab Ramos on a US Best XI, if it is just national team play then he would, I would think be in the picture. |
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| Martin | Dec 21 2013, 08:33 PM Post #6 |
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The interesting thing about Paul Caligiuri is for most if his career he played either defensive midfield or right back, it was only at World Cup 1994 and Copa America 1995 that due to a lack of other alternatives there that Caligiuri played left back. I think it says a lot about the US' lack of effective left backs over the years that the players being considered for the position on this Best XI-Bocanegra, Caligiuri and Hejduk, really spent most of their careers playing elsewhere and were only playing left back as an emergency. |
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| shelsoccer | Dec 21 2013, 08:48 PM Post #7 |
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Good point, Martin. Regarding Caligiuri, he did play multiple positions, though I seem to remember him still playing left back for Columbus when he came back to MLS (and I would hardly rate his European career much above Ramos' -- neither was very distinguished). Also, thanks for bringing up Frankie Hejduk. Among others not mentioned that could be thrown into the mix for discussion purposes would be DeMarcus Beasley, Hugo Perez, Tony Meola, Roy Wegerle, Preki (for his goal against Brazil in the Gold Cup if nothing else) and Joe-Max Moore. Come to think of it, Moore would probably be my choice to start up front with Stewart on my second team. |
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| Roosevelt | Dec 22 2013, 04:08 AM Post #8 |
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Just to clear up a few of the USSF's rules/criteria: Starter or key contributor to overall success on the field, especially in World Cups. Longevity, overall performance and talent on the field with the U.S. Men’s or Women’s National Team. Impact on the legacy of the U.S. Men’s or Women’s National Team program http://www.ussoccer.com/centennial/centenn...est-xi/mnt.aspx As one can see from the list of nominees, it was possible to vote for fellows from the 1930s or 50s, but the combination of bias towards the recent past/present and the relative anonymity of the pre-90s days made for a contemporary XI. (And to be fair, as someone who feels as if I have little basis other than cold numbers to evaluate, say, Joe-Max Moore, I'm not sure how many are around that can rate, eg Walter Bahr in a meaningful way.) The New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/sports/s...s-best-xis.html provided the complete vote totals: Goalkeepers: Friedel 25, Kasey Keller 14, Tim Howard 13, Tony Meola 4, Arnold Mausser 1, Frank Borghi 0, David Vanole 0 Defenders: Balboa 35, Pope 33, Bocanegra 25, Cherundolo 25, Thomas Dooley 20, Paul Caligiuri 18, Jeff Agoos 16, Alexi Lalas 14, Frankie Hejduk 9, Harry Keough 6, Pablo Mastroeni 3, Fernando Clavijo 2, Tony Sanneh 2, Mike Windischmann 2, Gregg Berhalter 2, Desmond Armstrong 0, Jimmy Banks, Brian Bliss 0, Mike Burns 0, John Doyle 0, Mike Lapper 0, Oguchi Onyewu 0, Werner Roth 0 Midfielders: Donovan 52, Reyna 45, Ramos 42, Dempsey 25, Michael Bradley 20, Cobi Jones 12, Walter Bahr 6, John Harkes 6, Hugo Perez 3, Adolf Bachmeier 2, Rick Davis 2, John O’Brien 2, Al Trost 2, DaMarcus Beasley 1, Ed McIlvenny 1*, Joe-Max Moore 1, Brian Quinn 1, Mike Sorber 1, Chris Armas 0, Chris Henderson 0, Eddie Lewis 0, Preki 0, Ed Souza 0, John Souza 0 Forwards: McBride 45, Wynalda 43, Earnie Stewart 16, Billy Gonsalves 7, Jozy Altidore 6, Peter Vermes 3, Joe Gaetjens 2, Archie Stark 2, Roy Wegerle 2, Roy Lassiter 1, Clint Mathis 1, Benny McLaughlin 1*, Ed Murphy 1*, Bruce Murray 1, Kyle Rote Jr. 1, Willy Roy 1, David Brown 0, Brian Ching 0, Aldo Donelli 0, Frank Klopas 0, Bill Looby 0, Bert Patenaude 0, Josh Wolff 0 *Not on the eligible list, but earned write-in votes Like shel, I'm pretty OK with the the USSF's list, and I think his solution to the LB issue is a good one. I also agree that DMB (whatever my feelings about him as a starting LB today) should have gotten more love as a midfielder. But then I think he's been generally under-appreciated throughout his career. A couple of comments on the vote totals. According to the Times article, the panel consisted of 56 voters, meaning LD was left off the first XI on four ballots. I'm all for iconoclasm, but honestly I'm not sure how that's possible. And using the USSF's standards (to this point, it might be different in six months) I think I'd agree more with the one voter that chose Mathis, rather than the six who went for Altidore. I'd also imagine a great WC by Bradley could have him challenging for a spot. Fun stuff. |
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Another day in June, we'll pick eleven for football We're playing for our lives, the referee gives us f**k-all | |
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| hobbes | Dec 22 2013, 05:28 AM Post #9 |
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We did the same thing a year ago and it was a fun exercise. I was a little surprised that everyone discussed was from the post-NASL era, but I guess it makes a lot of sense. I have no real arguments with the XI selected. That being said looking at the voting list and the criteria and who actually got votes, I'm a little aghast. Mike Sorber got a vote. Roy Lassiter, Jozy Altidore, Benny McLaughlin!? (I can't comment on Ed Murphy because I have no idea who that is), but no votes for Bert Patenaude. NONE? How is that possible? Sure if there were only a handful of people who got votes as a forward that would seem totally reasonable, but who voted for Roy Lassiter instead of a guy who scored four goals in three matches at a World Cup? Anyway it's an interesting exercise and I'm glad they published the vote list. Did they say who got to vote? cheers, hobbes |
| Saskatchewan for the CPL: multis e gentibus vires | |
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| Roosevelt | Dec 22 2013, 06:30 AM Post #10 |
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Via USSF: Members of the voting include, in alphabetical order: Jeff Agoos (former player), Roger Allaway (historian), Bruce Arena (coach), Esse Baharmast (referee), Marcelo Balboa (former player), Roger Bennett (media), Paul Caligiuri (former player), Andres Cantor (media), Jeff Carlisle (media), Dr. Bob Contiguglia (administrator), Rick Davis (former player), Steve Davis (media), Frank Dell’Apa (media), JP Dellacamera (media), Anson Dorrance (coach), Julie Foudy (former player), Werner Fricker Jr. (administrator), Carin Gabarra (former player), Bob Gansler (former coach), Steve Goff (media), Brian Hall (referee), Mia Hamm (former player), John Harkes (former player), April Heinrichs (former player), Chris Henderson (former player), Ted Howard (administrator), Clark Hunt (administrator), Cobi Jones (former player), Grahame Jones (media), Colin Jose (historian), Michelle Kaufman (media), Paul Kennedy (media), Alfred Kleinaitis (referee), Eddie Lewis (former player), Michael Lewis (media), Bob Ley (media), Ridge Mahoney (media), Kyle Martino (former player), Brian McBride (former player), Bora Milutinovic (former coach), Len Oliver (former player), Kevin Payne (administrator), Hugo Perez (former player), Eddie Pope (former player), Tab Ramos (former player), Alan Rothenberg (administrator), Hank Steinbrecher (administrator), Rob Stone (media), Jamie Trecker (media), Jerry Trecker (media), Jim Trecker (administrator), Al Trost (former player), Peter Vermes (former player), Kelly Whiteside (media), Mike Woitalla (media), Alex Yannis (media) and Mark Ziegler (media). - See more at: http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Articles/2013...h.6nOHGvmd.dpuf No Bob Bradley. I'd have to assume that was his choice. |
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Another day in June, we'll pick eleven for football We're playing for our lives, the referee gives us f**k-all | |
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| vince stravino | Dec 22 2013, 11:40 AM Post #11 |
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This is interesting. The list of voters makes me cringe. I would bet my last dollar I have watched the US Men's Nats play more games in the last 25 years than 95% of the pollsters listed. Some disclaimers: 1.) This the starting line-up I would choose out of the bunch and I realize that my frame of reference is pretty much limited to 1988 to the present. I am sure some of the earlier players deserve merit on this squad. We really should be picking our top-23 of all time. This would be my starting line-up if we had to play Mexico in Azteca for the World Cup. 2.) My (limited) personal interactions with some players may have swayed me both positively and negatively. 3.) I will try to use the (Stravino-modified) USSF criteria. GK: Friedel D: Pope, Boca, Dooley, Hejduk M: Reyna, Landon, Bradley, Cobi F: McBride, Wynalda Subs: Stewart, Mathis, Mastroeni Coach: Arena The midfield is special. The best we ever had as a professional (Reyna), the best we have now as a professional (Donovan) and the eventual best we will ever have as a professional (Bradley) This is sure to get some one bent out of shape.I found it pretty easy to come up with the forwards. Defenders show that we have been more a team of contributors than stars. Fact is, only Pope is gonna be on my Starting XI when we do this again in two decades. Damn, we have great keepers. FWIW: Never saw the greatness in Ramos, Caligiuri and Balboa as others may. Dempsey, kinda strangely, does not make my list and I cannot exactly figure out why. hobbes is right about the wonderment of some of the guys who actually got votes! To explain that, look at the list of voters... |
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| TonyDE | Dec 22 2013, 09:33 PM Post #12 |
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I am glad Martin asked the question and Roosevelt provided the USSF criteria as I too was wondering whether club play had any role in picking this team. Personally I think it should but Ok here would be my team based on the criteria of national team play only: GK-Friedel RB-Sanneh (no US right back ever played as well as Sanneh did in 02) CB-Pope CB-Lalas LB-Caligiuri MF-Dooley MF-Reyna MF-Jones MF-Donovan FW-McBride FW-Patenaude (OK before my time but hobbes convinced me, 4 goals in a single World Cup) |
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| Merengue | Dec 22 2013, 10:06 PM Post #13 |
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but no votes for Bert Patenaude. NONE? How is that possible? Sure if there were only a handful of people who got votes as a forward that would seem totally reasonable, but who voted for Roy Lassiter instead of a guy who scored four goals in three matches at a World Cup? Is this ever the truth. Patenaude may have played before our time but anybody who scored a World Cup hat trick and 4 goals in 3 games has to be considered one of the best US forwards ever. |
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| americafutbol10 | Dec 22 2013, 11:14 PM Post #14 |
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I don't really have any big issues with the official XI but can't see how Cobi Jones did not make the list...and, not just because he's my favorite US player ever, along with Donovan...and Paul Caligiuri <_< GK - Kasey Keller RB - Steve Cherundolo CB - Eddie Pope CB - Carlos Bocanegra LB - Paul Caligiuri RM - Cobi Jones CM - Claudio Reyna CM - Tab Ramos LM - Landon Donovan F - Brian McBride F - Eric Wynalda Honorable mention: GK Brad Friedel, LB Jeff Agoos, CB Marcelo Balboa, CB Alexi Lalas, RM Earnie Stewart, CM John O'Brien, CM Michael Bradley & F Clint Dempsey. |
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US Soccer...Don't Thread On Me! Michigan Football...Harbaugh Effect (GO BLUE!) LA Galaxy...5-time MLS Cup Champions! Colombia...VIVA, Cafeteros! | |
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| Johnbuildr | Dec 23 2013, 09:36 AM Post #15 |
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You guys have already covered this so thoroughly, I have little to add that is important..... ....But I'll add these notes anyway: Thomas Dooley is one of the best all round soccer players and competitors to ever to play for the Red, White and Blue, and he did so for a good period of time. The man never had a "bad" game, it seemed to me, and he flat out carried the team several times when the team as a whole was smelling up the pitch. The same is true, minus the raw soccer talent maybe, for Cobi Jones, Brian McBride, and Frankie Hejduk. Just mad competitors, though they could have their "off" games, they always gave 110%. And, Mr. Eric Wynalda had a nose for the goal unlike anyone I saw before or during his time. Tab Ramos and Claudio Reyna are still the two best soccer talents I have ever seen in a USA jersey, no exceptions. (Ramos suffered the most devasting, purposeful foul I have ever seen in an international game at the zenith of his USMNT career or he may well have become the absolute best US player ever.) Landon Donovan combines about everything, speed, skill, vision, passing and shooting ability, but has never quite reached the above players' level of burning desire in a player, not for his entire career for sure anyway. And my current favorite player, Michale Bradley, along with Dempsey and a few others, still have a World Cup and ways to go to be automatically brought up with those above in my mind. Oh, and I think Keller and Friedel are pretty even in their abilities and level of play, with Howard one World Cup to go to be mentioned in the same breath wiht those two. |
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This is sure to get some one bent out of shape.
11:25 AM Jul 11