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| Europa League 2011-12 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 15 2011, 05:27 PM (1,879 Views) | |
| Sammy Maudlin | Feb 16 2012, 08:17 PM Post #46 |
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Porto only have themselves to blame, they were outplaying Manchester City but could not score more than the one goal, then they sat back let City equalize then Porto again began to dominate yet could not find the back of the net. Man City finally sent Aguero on (I was surprised he did not start) and he immediately paid dividends. Nice 3-1 win for Atletico Madrid away to Lazio, that should make Manzanares happy. |
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| valenciano | Feb 18 2012, 01:56 PM Post #47 |
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Mehmet Topal with a nice long distance strike to give Valencia an away win over Stoke, 1-0. Here are all of the round of 32 first leg results, you can see it was a good round for many visiting teams: Tuesday February 14 14 Feb, 11:00 Rubin Kazan 0 - 1 Olympiacos 14 Feb, 17:30 Sporting Braga 0 - 2 Besiktas Thursday February 16 16 Feb, 17:00 Lokomotiv Moscow 2 - 1 Athletic Bilbao 16 Feb, 18:00 Ajax 0 - 2 Manchester United 16 Feb, 18:00 Red Bull Salzburg 0 - 4 Metalist Kharkiv 16 Feb, 18:00 AZ Alkmaar 1 - 0 Anderlecht 16 Feb, 18:00 Lazio 1 - 3 Atlético Madrid 16 Feb, 18:00 Viktoria Plzen 1 - 1 Schalke 04 16 Feb, 18:00 Legia Warszawa 2 - 2 Sporting Lisbon 16 Feb, 20:05 FC Porto 1 - 2 Manchester City 16 Feb, 20:05 Stoke City 0 - 1 Valencia CF 16 Feb, 20:05 Steaua Bucharest 0 - 1 FC Twente 16 Feb, 20:05 Wisla Kraków 1 - 1 Standard Liège 16 Feb, 20:05 Udinese 0 - 0 PAOK 16 Feb, 20:05 Trabzonspor 1 - 2 PSV 16 Feb, 20:05 Hannover 96 2 - 1 Club Brugge |
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| shelsoccer | Feb 20 2012, 12:18 PM Post #48 |
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I know I've raised this point before, particularly from a Swedish standpoint, but it amazes me that there are no Scandivanian clubs in the round of 32. |
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| raconteur | Feb 20 2012, 06:50 PM Post #49 |
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Even FC Copenhagen who made the final 16 last year in the Champions League did not advance to the knockout stages in this season's Europa League. It has been a good 25 years since Sweden's IFK Gothenburg was a force in Europe but about 10 years ago Norway's Rosenborg was a team few of the giants wanted to meet and they often were a qualifier for the knockout rounds. And in recent years Denmark's FC Copenhagen has been competitive in Champions League matches but they are the exception to the rule. Scandinavian clubs just do not have the money to compete and even with Platini's opening up of the Champions League qualification to clubs from the so called smaller leagues, other than Copenhagen, no Scandinavian club seems capable of competing. And the same applies to the Europa League. Scandinavian clubs are becoming an after thought in European competitions, much like clubs from Eastern Europe, other than the more financially stronger clubs from Russia and Ukraine. |
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| shelsoccer | Feb 21 2012, 08:16 AM Post #50 |
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I understand the economics of European football, but in my mind there's no reason that Scandinavian clubs shouldn't be as competitive as clubs from Holland, Switzerland, Portugal and the like. |
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| Sporting | Feb 21 2012, 12:36 PM Post #51 |
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You'd think that with their generally strong economies, the Scandinavian countries wouldn't have problems from the money point of view. Maybe it's simply because football doesn't take such a central place in those nations, and also that due to the more extreme climate, it's harder to attract those foreign imports which might help to give some propulsion to the game in Norway, Sweden, etc. |
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| Yogi | Feb 21 2012, 08:34 PM Post #52 |
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That is a pretty good point Sporting. In Norway and Sweden, while football is certainly one of the more populr sports, I think winter sports there are probably even more popular. I am not entirely certain of this but I get the impression that is not necessarily true, however, in Denmark. But as shelsoccer and Sporting note, the Scandinavian countries have strong econmies and you would think if not comparable they'd at least just be slightly behind the leagues in countries like Holland, Portugal and Belgium. Look at the UEFA Coefficient or Rankings for the European Leagues, based on how clubs from that nation have performed in European competitions: http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uef...ntry/index.html Denmark's league is ranked 13th in Europe, Sweden's 24th and Norway's 26th. The associations' or country coefficient rankings are based on the results of each association's clubs in the five previous UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League seasons. The rankings determine the number of places allocated to an association in forthcoming UEFA club competition. And also look at how individuals clubs do: http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uef...club/index.html Only 3 Scandinavian clubs are in the top 100 with FC Copenhagen (aka Kobenhavn) the highest rated at #42. Next is another danish club Aalborg at 78 with Norway's Rosenborg at 91. Sweden's top rated club is Helsingborgs at 126. The club coefficient rankings are based on the results of clubs competing in the five previous seasons of the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League. The rankings determine the seeding of each club in all UEFA competition draws. |
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| Sammy Maudlin | Feb 21 2012, 09:56 PM Post #53 |
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According to the links Yogi provided the Danish league is roughly comparable to both the Belgian and Swiss leagues. But looking closer, much of their high rating is due to Copenhagen's successful European season last year and Aalborgs in 08/09. |
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| shelsoccer | Feb 22 2012, 08:11 AM Post #54 |
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Climate certainly plays a role, but I think a bigger factor may be the combination of successful economies with small population bases. While certainly acknowledging the driving force of poverty for many of the world's top athletes, in affluent societies there are more choices. Speaking strictly of sports, an affluent society offers better coaching, nutrition, infrastructure, etc., to its athletes and provides opportunities for a variety of sports. A young Swedish athlete may be just as attracted to hockey, skiing, golf, tennis, track, swimming, etc., as he is to soccer. To one degree or another and with varying differences in popularity, the same can be said of the young Norwegian or Danish athlete. The kid from a favella in Rio is pretty much limited to soccer. Add in that you're drawing from a small population pool, and your athletic talent is spread thinner than it is even in a country like Holland where soccer is the undisputed top sport with only speed skating coming close. |
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| Merengue | Feb 22 2012, 04:48 PM Post #55 |
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I really do not think it is as much a question of good Danish or Swedish athletes choosing sports other than football, Denmark and Sweden each have pretty good national teams, especially for countries of their population. But their national team players almost exclusively play outside their domestic leagues. It is I think more a sign that their league clubs simply do not have the money to retain their better players and to sign quality foreigners. Because of their small population base these leagues do not receive much TV money and it becomes a bit of a vicious circle. Without the money they can not succeed in Europe and without the money earned from European play they cannot reinforce their team to be successful in Europe. Getting back to play on the field, Manchester City easily qualified for the enxt round with a 4-0 (6-1 on aggregate) win over holders Porto. Good win for Man City but Porto are just a mere shadown of last season's all conquering team. |
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| shelsoccer | Feb 23 2012, 11:51 AM Post #56 |
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Clubs in the Scandinavian leagues are hamstrung by the population base, which translates into lower attendance and TV rights fees. But, is that really so different than Holland, Portugal, Switzerland, etc.? I guess my point is that these are all affluent societies, ones that should be able to produce owners with deeper pockets. There all plenty of multi-millionares elsewhere who just want a play thing even if they lose money. |
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| Johnbuildr | Feb 23 2012, 01:06 PM Post #57 |
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Your point is taken Shel, but it seems to me soccer is "the" primary sport in Holland and Portugal, while it is in competition with hockey and other winter sports in Scandinavia. Economics aside, I just don't see soccer being as huge there as it is in Holland and Portugal, which is the overriding factor imo. |
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Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum | |
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| Don Balon | Feb 23 2012, 04:25 PM Post #58 |
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And interesting discussion, I have always thought of the Netherlands as roughly the same population as countries like Belgium, Switzerland and sweden but it actually is much larger: Population of assorted European nations (in millions): Netherlands 16,7 Portugal 10,6 Belgium 10,2 Sweden 9,0 Switzerland 7,3 Denmark 5,3 Norway 4,9 Maybe Denmark's and Norway's leagues are as strong as you would expect for their nation's population abse but it is Sweden's clubs who really are underperforming? Merengue is right I think in saying the national teams of the Scandinavian countries, especially Denmark and Sweden are pretty strong but somehow their league clubs just do not have the money needed to be more competitive in European competitions. Yet I can not answer shelsoccer's question why do not wealthy Scandinavians invest in their local clubs? |
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| raconteur | Feb 23 2012, 04:54 PM Post #59 |
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Not enough return on their investment? The round of 32 was completed today with these results: Schalke 04 (Germany) 3 Viktoria Plzen (C. Republic)1 AET Schalke 04 win 4-2 on aggregate. Anderlecht (Belgium) 0 AZ Alkmaar (Netherlands) 1 AZ Alkmaar win 2-0 on aggregate. Atletico Madrid (Spain) 1 Lazio (Italy) 0 Atletico Madrid win 4-1 on aggregate. Besiktas (Turkey) 0 Braga (Portugal) 1 Besiktas win 2-1 on aggregate. Manchester United (England) 1 Ajax Amsterdam (Netherlands) 2 Manchester United win 3-2 on aggregate. Metalist Kharkiv (Ukraine) 4 Salzburg (Austria) 1 Metalist Kharkiv win 8-1 on aggregate. Olympiakos Piraeus (Greece) 1 Rubin Kazan (Russia) 0 Olympiakos Piraeus win 2-0 on aggregate. Sporting (Portugal) 1 Legia Warsaw (Poland) 0 Sporting win 3-2 on aggregate. Athletic Bilbao (Spain) 1 Lokomotiv Moscow (Russia) 0 Bilbao win on away goals after 2-2 on aggregate. Club Bruges (Belgium) 0 Hanover 96 (Germany) 1 Hanover 96 win 3-1 on aggregate. Twente Enschede (Netherlands) 1 Steaua Bucharest (Romania) 0 Twente Enschede win 2-0 on aggregate. PAOK Salonika (Greece) 0 Udinese (Italy) 3 Udinese win 3-0 on aggregate. PSV Eindhoven (Netherlands) 4 Trabzonspor (Turkey) 1 PSV Eindhoven win 6-2 on aggregate. Standard Liege (Belgium) 0 Wisla Krakow (Poland) 0 Standard Liege win on away goals after 1-1 on aggregate. Valencia (Spain) 1 Stoke City (England) 0 Valencia win 2-0 on aggregate. Ajax did beat Manchester United at Old Trafford but it was not by enough to win the two legged series. I thought Udinese were in trouble after the 0-0 tie last week at home but they advanced after winning 3-0 away in Greece. |
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| Onslow | Feb 24 2012, 01:12 PM Post #60 |
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The round of 16 first leg matches: Thursday March 8 8 Mar, 18:00 Metalist Kharkiv v Olympiacos 8 Mar, 18:00 Sporting Lisbon v Manchester City 8 Mar, 18:00 FC Twente v Schalke 04 8 Mar, 18:00 Atlético Madrid v Besiktas 8 Mar, 20:05 Standard Liège v Hannover 96 8 Mar, 20:05 Valencia CF v PSV 8 Mar, 20:05 AZ Alkmaar v Udinese 8 Mar, 20:05 Manchester United v Athletic Bilbao Manchester United v Athletic Bilbao should be a pretty good matchup, perhaps the pick of this round. I read where many of the Spanish league posters here have high praise for Athletic Bilbao. United will have to play better than they did yesterday at home versus Ajax. Valencia v PSV could be another good matchup too. Interesting that Man City have to return once again to Portugal, this time to play Sporting Lisbon. |
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